Supplies Concept

from Sins Forums
So I've played about 10 or so games now, and well I've said before that this game is Extremely similar to Conquest Frontier Wars in its RTS application, and thats true, but there is something different, that well, shouldn't be lol

In CFW every ship had a bar of 'supply' which was used up whenever using special abilities and firing weapons... when your supply ran out your ship no longer fired weapons and moved a tad slower, and couldn't cast special abilities... what this meant was that you couldn't take one fleet and just wilily nilly go forward and annihilate system after system without consequence... eventually you would run out of ammo and would have to retreat or be destroyed by defenders... Usually an un-supplied fleet could take out a small defenseless system or two, but a large system with defenses and well the job wouldn't be finished, you'd have to come back to kill all the structures, but you'd certainly break the defenses.

Now this would make a sustained campaign of aggression impossible if not for the 'supply ship' which would resupply automatically to all nearby ships and had a very good AI coordinating it, so that you could have the ship automatically return to your system's resupply base and stock up then return to the fleet.

This was a great feature, and I think should be implemented into sins for 2 reasons-

1. It adds another strategic or logistical element to the game, thus giving it more depth

2. It will make more sense, and allow for blockades... I didn't think it was fair that my fleet could travel deep into the enemy territory as an ally, break the alliance and then fight my way out from the juicy defenseless insides without ever slowing down or running out of ammo, apparently my home-world teleports food, fuel, ammo and such to my ships right through the 5 or so jumps with defenses! It will also make assaults on worlds tougher, as your ships will run out of supplies and enemy ships will not as its their system!

For people who don't want the small haste just make the supply option, optional

As for planets it can be used as such, if you have a planet that can't draw a direct line to another friendly system the structures begin to stop working after say 5 minutes... thus you could effectively 'cut off' a defense system if you can get to the colony behind it and destroy it... maybe have this timer effected by the type of planet... Dead Asteroid worlds can supply structures with supplies for 5 minutes, asteroids for 10 and planets for 30?

Also when ships or structures are destroyed they sometimes left behind supplies, that your ships could salvage, which I think would be a great system, as then your cut off fleets can 'limp' their way home through defenses, rather than simply run and be completely destroyed... perhaps being out of supply doesn't need to be quite so extreme, you could have them simply half their firing rate, but then it will lose allot of meaning.

Seriously I think this should be the top feature to be installed, it made CFW much more strategic, and I think this game would benefit from it immensely!
5,467 views 29 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I think its a little to late to add anything like this, and even so... its more of a WIBN anyway. Plus there are some very difficult to impliment aspects to some of your ideas -- how do you decide if a planet is "cut off" from the rest of the network? And even if it is, does it really deserve to have its supplies fail? After all, it was (presumably) part of making those supplies! And what about stars? You can hardly "control" a star in a manner the game can understand, atm, so how do you determine if its cutting you off or not? (If I have a dozen fighter squads in the center, I'm probably controlling it, but if the AI has those fighters instead it controls the center. Thats easy. But what existing game mechanic lets the game figure this out?).
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I like the idea, as i liked CFW. However it will need some thinking to make it possible to implement it, if it at all is possible at this date.
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Generally, I am also really into realism. But, just to play the Devil's Advocate, your 'behind enemy lines' fleet doesn't need fuel resupply because they somehow convert solar activity into antimatter. As for munitions and building materials, your fleet could be just scavenging from the ships/structures they destroy in battle.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Ron Lugge raises a good point about the planets, so shelf it, its not that big a deal anyways for them... but i'm adamant about the ships... it really is ridiculous right now,

as to the fuel, well I'm not saying the ships should stop moving, as then they'd be hopeless, just that their firing rate diminish or disappear. Perhaps its too late, perhaps not... its a beta after all... I think I'm mostly concerned with the fact that right now the game-play is too straightforward, its build up and smash the enemy, sure the bounty system affects things a bit, but not by much... neither do the pirates, the diplomacy has allot of promise but needs developing, this would at least make combat less straight forward... more like a side forward or down forward or something... certainly not backwards...
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Generally, I am also really into realism. But, just to play the Devil's Advocate, your 'behind enemy lines' fleet doesn't need fuel resupply because they somehow convert solar activity into antimatter. As for munitions and building materials, your fleet could be just scavenging from the ships/structures they destroy in battle.


But what if they run out of TEC brand space cone ice cream?

Supply idea is really not important to me, it would make games even longer as its another aspect to worry about, and games are already 2+ hours on average for a small system.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Personally I find having to refuel ships constantly lest they become totally worthless/stranded (ala SotS) to be particularly annoying. It's just an extra layer of micro that doesn't actually add much benefit (and certainly doesn't add any fun), IMO.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
My mod, Kin of the Stars, implements a supply system for antimatter. The basics of how it works:

1) Antimatter is not lost during phase jumps.
2) Ships cannot regenerate antimatter themselves.
3) Supply ships can transfer antimatter from their own supply to nearby ships with less than full antimatter.
4) Repair platforms refill antimatter of nearby ships with less than full antimatter, including supply ships.

It works fairly well. Download the mod [here] and see if the concept works for you.

Now. Having shown that it's very feasible to do in the Sins engine, I don't think supplies should be in stock Sins gameplay. It's just one more thing to keep track of, and that could become a real micromanagement chore with a game of such epic scope. I think it's better placed in mods, where people can take on the extra complexity voluntarily.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I personally like the idea...I've played conquest: frontier wars. (one game my friend and I were at a stalemate for about 6-8 hours lol- but I digress.) I personally enjoyed the idea of having to resupply my ships.

how do you decide if a planet is "cut off" from the rest of the network? And even if it is, does it really deserve to have its supplies fail?


If the game can figure out how to send trade ships from station to station it can figure out supply routes.

and that could become a real micromanagement chore with a game of such epic scope.


Not really. Does fleet A have some supply ships? Yep. Fleet B? Yep. C? Yep. Okay, we're all set.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
If the game can figure out how to send trade ships from station to station it can figure out supply routes.


Exxcept... it can't. Your civilian vessels will go from point A to point B... and ignore any enemy ships or systems in their way. As a result, I always end up sitting 8 carriers plus a Sova on the local star (minimum!), to maintain control of it. (Against a human player, I'd probably need even more!
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
I personally feel that supply lines would only complicate this game, which has, so far, maintained a very fine balance being fun and presenting a lot of content while not becoming over-complicated. Supply lines did work very well in Conquest: Frontier Wars, but there is more going on in Sins. There is more to research and many different aspects of the game to focus on. You didn't have to worry about influence, trade, bounty, or three different tech trees in Conquest: FW. I enjoy Conquest a lot, but it was a more straight-foward combat RTS. Certain gameplay elements don't always work in every game.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Wait a sec!!!!! You can already make a mod for this game where ships require Antimatter supply to fire weapons and move.

We already have Special Ability weapons in the beta that require Antimatter to fire. For a mod, you could just make all of a ships weapons require antimatter to fire. Just make it so each weapon needs just 1 unit of antimatter to fire and also increase the total amount of antimatter 'supplies' the ship holds.

ALSO, we know from that Cruiser with the 'Accelerate' special ability, you can make ships more or less dependent on Antimatter to move.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
Now why would antimatter functions as the basis for all ship opperations?

And also, on the trade ships aspect, they are quite smart. They plan courses that would earn the most credits, or go from the richer to the poorer systems. And they dont go through enemy planets, unless there are not threats there( you have orbit control). Otherwise I have seen trade ships go long ways of course when I lost a planet, just to keep safe.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Now why would antimatter functions as the basis for all ship opperations?


Power supply? Without power, you don't do jack

And emporer, I have SEEN my trade ships go through the star (when controlled by AI) and even have AI ones go through my systems.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
[quotePower supply? Without power, you don't do jack

And emporer, I have SEEN my trade ships go through the star (when controlled by AI) and even have AI ones go through my systems. [/quote]

Now see, we know antimatter is used for jumping, because obviously rendering a hole in space itself takes a lot of enegry. However normal movement, as well as the powering of weapons could be easily fueled by more inexpensive nuclear of fussion batteries. So your point is moot, but I am most likely to win

Well my trade ships seem to be a bit smarter, but they do go through stars no matter who 'controls' them, since the game doesnt identify them as 'contorlled' by anyone. In my opinion once you own a majority of the solar system you should be able to fortify the star with defenses.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Now see, we know antimatter is used for jumping, because obviously rendering a hole in space itself takes a lot of enegry. However normal movement, as well as the powering of weapons could be easily fueled by more inexpensive nuclear of fussion batteries.


yes, but this is a mod. If he decides antimatter is the ships primary source of power, so be it!
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Fine, fine.

Makes little sense, but fine.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

Makes little sense, but fine.


Unless of course the weapons power is so high as to need anti-matter power, same as jumping.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
And also, on the trade ships aspect, they are quite smart. They plan courses that would earn the most credits, or go from the richer to the poorer systems. And they dont go through enemy planets, unless there are not threats there( you have orbit control). Otherwise I have seen trade ships go long ways of course when I lost a planet, just to keep safe.


I wish my current game was working like that -- did they break it in a patch or something? I have my civilian ships going through pirate-controlled systems (large map, haven't had time to colonize everywhere, and with what I think is insurgency already going, I have to fortify EVERY system before I dare pull my fleets out) as well as enemy controlled systems that I knew where enemy controlled.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
well this is mainly for Kryo - it isn't fun to micro IMO, so I agree that if it can't be done very automatically it shouldn't be done... however CFW did it pretty easily, it wasn't perfect, you could either A, have auto fleets working (with the problems our trade ships encounter now lol) or B. have a supply ship travel with the fleet... frankly, I could see that becoming the additional role of several battlecruisers, or the repair frigate or the light carrier... frankly the light carrier would be my choice.

The point would be, that you can't go on forever on the offensive with a super death fleet... you shouldn't risk going 10 systems deep into enemy territory because that fleet will run out of ammo on its way out and be destroyed... it just means occasionally you should be forced to consolidate....

Oh and since a mod can do this then there is Definitely enough time for the developers to implement this feature... besides make it an optional rule then everyone is happy!

The real downside of course is whatever time is put into this must come from some other feature or plan, and not knowing what those are I cant say if this should be done or not.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
i have to say in general i like the idea of supplys. I like that it would make the current tactic of huge fleets just stomping through everything more difficult. I also like that the anti-matter supply is already modded... an idea i think should probably stay as a mod. however that still doesnt solve what to do about the rather linear "huge fleet stoping from world to world" stratagy... though i have a feeling once the AI is improved the computer will have its own "huge fleet" to stop me... wich in reality is the only thing that could such a beastly fleet     
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah the game gets pretty boreing at this point.



The AI just runs every time as you can see and never makes a fleet to counter me. I just stomp from system to system.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
Hmm that didnt work. How do you post screen shots on this forum?
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
Amongst other things, you have to host them on a website -- we can't access your computer remotely, and thats what ONE of those links is trying to do.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Maby this will work.