Ways to Deepen Strategy

I have thoroughly enjoyed playing the beta, warts and all, but I think there are several relatively simple ways to deepen the strategy and tactics involved. Many people have talked about specific capabilities and additions, but I don't think that the current game can be properly judged without playing multiplayer or against a finished AI.

I'll start with my wacky idea. I think someone else has mentioned it, but I'd like to remove jump lanes. I can already see the horrified looks on your faces. Honestly though, I think it would add much to the game. There would be a possibility of deep strikes at an enemy's core, more flexible attack plans, and most importantly a front that is too big to totally protect. You'd need to leave certain systems uncovered to have any offensive operations. For a better defense I could see phase 'exhibitors' (like interdictor cruisers in Star Wars) that pull ships out of phase space, There could be asteroid belts and nebulae that restrict travel. Ships could have jump limits that are increased by research.

A less wacky idea is to give ships the ability to move at sublight speeds between planets. That way, I could launch an undetectable attack on someone, but it wouldn't come to fruition for a long time, and it would leave me vulnerable while my fleet was in transit. You would need to research something like 'Huge Fuel Tanks' or 'Cryo Sleep' beforehand.

Ships should be able to turn off all betraying emissions and disappear from sensors, unless they are extremely close to the enemy. Granted, other races might be able to do this, but I think even the TEC can turn off their ships. This would allow interesting ambushes and surprises, letting an outnumbered person overcome a massive fleet. While ships are 'lying doggo' (quoting Honor Harrington for you Ron Lugge) their shields could be down or something. If ships could lie in wait fleets would have to have scouts out, to detect an ambush. Maybe Arcovas could detect hidden ships from a much farther distance, to make them ideal as fleet scouts.

Counter PSIDAR should be able to be researched. If someone can cPSIDAR level one, it reduces the enemy's vision of their fleets by one jump. So if your cPSIDAR is higher than someone's PSIDAR, they don't see your fleets approaching. Maybe after PSIDAR level two and counter PSIDAR level one, the costs go up exponentially, but those two technologies can be infinitely researched. I'd like to have one technology that resources can be sunk into, but costs and research time would go up so much that it wouldn't really be a race, just a strategic decision. So you'd have to decide whether a larger fleet and with better shields for example, is worth more than the enemy being unaware of your fleets approaching their planets.

If your enemy does get ahead of your in the PSIDAR race, there should be a way to recoup. People have already mentioned the possibility of ship debris, but I'd like some so that salvage cruisers could get technologies off them. For example I salvage an enemy kodiak that has repelon armor and cPSIDAR 2, maybe I get half of each of those technologies making it easier for me to research them. I realize that this won't work if you salvage a ship from a race that has an entirely different research tree, but perhaps a salvaged Vasari ship would give the TEC some weapons research (I don't know how it will work). If salvagers existed, it would create the interesting tension when you have a fleet that is losing, do you stay to destroy your debris to deny your enemy your technology, or do you save as many ships as you can? There also might be a technology that gives ships an auto self destruct to deny salvagers.

Other people have mentioned regular ships getting experience and increased functionality, and I agree. Also GreatEmperor mentioned a ship becoming a captain, and granting an aura to nearby ships, I'd like to see the most veteran ship of any fleet become the captain or flagship. I would like some kind of morale, Rome Total War style if possible, to put an end to ships approaching one another and happily stopping and shooting until one side is gone.

These are most of my ideas on creating more strategic choices without too much unnecessary complexity. Tell me what you think, and any ideas you guys have.
12,507 views 37 replies
Reply #1 Top
I tried to indent my paragraphs but it didn't seem to work. How do you guys do that?
Reply #2 Top
Not sure...
Reply #3 Top
(Stupid) question: What's PSIDAR? I mean, I know its a detection technology but what does it stand for?

Reply #4 Top
I think it has something to do with PSI (Pounds per Square Inch)
Reply #5 Top
well,

I like the idea of counter PSIDAR... however, I believe that there should not be an infinite possibility of building this up. I think that at Max PSIDAR versus Max cPSIDAR that it should be a roll per ship to see if its detected. Thus any sizable fleet will be detected overall but its exact size and composition will remain unknown.

I like jump points it makes it manageable. However it would be nice if we could find ways to cleverly jump past the fortress systems... perhaps a tech and building... a phase jump catapult; that can send you directly to a system that is 2 jumps from the system. I say this because in that way in order to bypass a defensive system you have to build this thing in a system adjacent to a defensive system. Thus it is right on the battlefield and a prime target. In addition if they have a secondary defensive line, then they still have you held up. The other races could have a better version of this perhaps.

Fog of War IN Systems would be a very nice addition!

For the exploration game, perhaps dead end phase jumps- IE phase lanes that go nowhere... and can be closed upon exploration?
Reply #6 Top
im also not understanding the logic of jump lanes. once i am out of a planet's gravity well, why cant i go in any direction? is this explained somewhere? it seems tactically very limiting.
Reply #7 Top

im also not understanding the logic of jump lanes. once i am out of a planet's gravity well, why cant i go in any direction? is this explained somewhere? it seems tactically very limiting.


This question has been asked a lot, think of it as safe paths for travel that have already been scouted. This probably could have been fixed with the addition of Jump gates, like most space games have...
Reply #8 Top
just a point about fog of warin system... this game is set way in the future and there are massive ships, antimatter technology etc. wouldnt you think there would also be pretty advancd scanners around by then?
Reply #9 Top

just a point about fog of warin system... this game is set way in the future and there are massive ships, antimatter technology etc. wouldnt you think there would also be pretty advancd scanners around by then?


take into account that these same ships might have countermeasures to such scanning, and hence the PSIDAR was invented to at least detect fleets 2 jumps away...
Reply #10 Top
there is a technological excuse or counter excuse for absolutely anything in a scifi universe.

I'm not interested in how they justify the lack of Fog of War in system from a story or realist point of view. Purely Game Play, as a game is it better or worse without fog of war in system. I say worse, as it limits tactics.

Reply #11 Top
I dislike FOW too as it just......seems pointless. thats what stealth ships are for
Reply #12 Top
I tried to indent my paragraphs but it didn't seem to work. How do you guys do that?


Online, the accepted format is the double space between paragraphs, not the indent.

Hit your enter key twice.
Reply #13 Top
there is a technological excuse or counter excuse for absolutely anything in a scifi universe.

I'm not interested in how they justify the lack of Fog of War in system from a story or realist point of view. Purely Game Play, as a game is it better or worse without fog of war in system. I say worse, as it limits tactics.



I like it as is, from a gameplay and realistic (*shudder*, I really hate saying that when talking about a game) point of view. Scouting isn't eliminated, as you still need to sneak a peek at each system, yet it's easy enough that once you arrive at an enemy system, you can shift-click like mad to queue up orders and ignore it for awhile, barring reinforcements.

Definitely not something I want changed.
Reply #14 Top
im glad to see im not the only one who thinks like that, im all for it, especially removing the phase lines


/cheers
Reply #15 Top
as kryo said, think of phase lanes as safely scouted routes between worlds, if you decided to use a different path, chances are you will have your entire fleet blown to bits by an asteroid field.

A less wacky idea is to give ships the ability to move at sublight speeds between planets.


actually, that is quite a bit more wacky since if you moved at sublight speeds it would take quite a while to reach the planets.

Ships should be able to turn off all betraying emissions and disappear from sensors, unless they are extremely close to the enemy.


it doesnt matter if you reduce all emissions to zero, you can still detect an object by looking at the amount of heat it is emitting. and if it isnt emitting any heat, then chances are everyone inside that ship is going to freeze. also, you can use a form of sonar/radar and see that there is something there.
Reply #16 Top
The phase lane argument has been made ad nauseum before (check the forums). They're here to stay.
Reply #17 Top
Good! This is a vital game mechanic, and so fundamental to the way the game is played, you would lose a lot of that focus if you dropped it. Removing it would make this a different game entirely.
Reply #18 Top
and if you still don't like the idea of phase lanes and want a reason, think of Andromeda (TV) slipstreams.
set "lanes" were made through space so as to travel at great speed, but if you vear off from the lane, or try to make your own lane, you can be lost to the eternal abyss of slip (or in this case) phase space.
unless your intelligent enough to make your own.
thats where the vasari phase gates come in   
Reply #19 Top
lol mikey, do you realize that you just called all of humanity stupid?
Reply #20 Top
The phase lane argument has been made ad nauseum before (check the forums). They're here to stay.



Without phase lanes the game would be much less manageable, but i do think that there should be some ship that can attack in phase space. There is a long time that ships travel esp through stars. Maybe an ion storm or something would lead them somewhere or they get pushed back or a phase lane goes down or gets blocked. Random events like that can put a cramp in ur plans for invasion colinization ect
Reply #21 Top

lol mikey, do you realize that you just called all of humanity stupid?


No, he didn't. He came close, but "intelligent enough to make your own" could require a species to be universally genius level (and have their geniuses be super-geniuses!).
Reply #22 Top
I like the idea of removing the jump lanes or at least making it possible to skip some of them by using gates or special drives. Maybe keep the lanes and making sublightspeed possible without using the gates? This should at least be possible in the same star system.

If the space lanes HAS to be there then I have another idea to make it more fun.

I would like to see implemented a more dynamic universe. As it is now all the planets just sit there in "unrealistic" orbits and do nothing. I read in an interview that they tried to make a true star system modelled on physics. In such a system everything would rotate and spin.

What I would like to see is that the planets are revolving around the sun and the space lanes opening or closing depending on the "season". A space lane would maybe not be accessible if it is going straight through the sun. Also let sporadic worm holes opening up to allow for some quick thinking and fun surprise attacks.

/Michael

Reply #23 Top
lol mikey, do you realize that you just called all of humanity stupid?


no, not really.
but if all the lanes that you ever need are there why do you need to learn about how to create more.
unless this kind of situation comes along, in which the geniuses rush to the nearest liberary to lean how people used to do it....and then write it off as nonsence and start from scratch.

What I would like to see is that the planets are revolving around the sun and the space lanes opening or closing depending on the "season". A space lane would maybe not be accessible if it is going straight through the sun. Also let sporadic worm holes opening up to allow for some quick thinking and fun surprise attacks.


that would be interesting and would keep players on their toes...i mean fingers
Reply #24 Top
as kryo said, think of phase lanes as safely scouted routes between worlds


kosc != me

What I would like to see is that the planets are revolving around the sun and the space lanes opening or closing depending on the "season".


Orbiting planets was also tried early on and dropped for various reasons, both gameplay and technical, IIRC. I never played that version myself, but I don't expect I'd have enjoyed that amount of micromanagement and having to constantly watch the shifting lanes.
Reply #25 Top

kosc != me