My feedback (surrenders)

from Sins Forums
I only played through a few tutorials to get the feel of the game. I know I'll need a lot more game time to fully understand the game.

However let me just say that this game is a god send. I've bought and played so many new releases that were either a disappointment or just horrible. The biggest on was Lost Planet where the MP completely sucked (you cant chat what so ever) and the Gameplay was not well designed (the Xbox version might have been great, but the PC version definately needs work). Supreme Commander while good didnt draw me into the game, and I dont need to say anything about Genesis Rising.

I am happy to say that this is among only two games that was very satisfactory (the other being Rappelz Epic 4). First off I'd like to say thank you for doing a good job. After Homeworld 2 I and a group of my friends desperately needed another good space game to play. Nexus didn't have a good MP support and Genesis Rising just flat out failed.

While the graphics wasn't as impressive as when I first picked up Nexus, it wasn't bad. I showed the game to a few friend and they said that the graphics look good but not great. So I'd like to see the graphics improve when the game's released.

I'd also like to see some of the effects tighten up. Meaning that I'd like to see the damage effect close to the ship. There's a few times I can see when the fire or flare is sometimes a little disconnected to the ship or a ballistic weapon hit but no effect is created.

As for the interface, I found no problem with the gameplay. Just polish it up a bit and it's ready to go. I'd also like to thank the devs for making the interface very common sence, so you wouldn't have to learn the game all over again. I just picked up my experience from Homeworld 2 and Hegemonia and I didn't have to pay attention to the tutorial too much.

But I do have one request. When bombarding a colony, would it be possible to add a surrender mechanic? I do realize that this is a game and not real life so people will be kinda bloodthirsty . But it's a bit inconvenient to have to destroy ALL the colonies one by one. Install the colony to have a certain percentage of surrendering based off stats (such as 40% surrendering when the loyalty is like 20% or something of that sort and have surrendering impossible after a certain amount of loyalty and vise versa). Then have the player either accept the surrender or not. If the player accepts then they'll get more resources a few ships ships, increase overall population, etc. (If this is already implemented please let me know)

I know I'll have to play the game more to give a full reliable feedback, but from what I've played, it's great. You've really made my day. Keep up the good work.

(Oh I also ask to please provide a reliable Multiplayer system. Without good multiplayer this game could die).
10,899 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Also is there an artillery ship in this game? If not then that should be added (I like using ships that have incredibly long range ) And please forgive some of the typos in the original message
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
There is an LRM frigate. It's not "shoot from one side of the gravity well to the other" long ranged, but it's nice.

Regardless, I prefer to use carriers. They can literally lurk at the retreat exit lane while their bombers do the hard work.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
LizardPariah,
Thanks for your feedback! I'm glad you're having fun already  
There are only a few effects that have received final polish at this point, so you will see much more from this department. You'll see effects for every impact and they will be tighter.

It's nice to hear the interface feels intuitive to you. You wouldn't believe how many times this has changed - even before beta 1. It's amazing how much work goes into making something clean and simple! At one point the the UI took up twice as much screen real estate, believe it or not.

The surrender mechanic sounds interesting.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top


The surrender mechanic sounds interesting.



Thank you for the quick responce. I ask you to please consider this mechanic. Many games are a bit to cold blooded about war. It's always kill them all.

I prefer if Sins did not become like that. Although I do realize that it is a game, I prefer if it was realistic to the point where it is possible to have a colony surrender (after all they are civilians) and have the conquer gain something from accepting a surrender.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I agree, for what it's worth.

While there are times when you're going to want to glass the planet just because that son-of-a-solar-whore has just @^*()_&*@)@ you off beyond all @^*)@#^*#)&-#^*@)&^*#@%^ recognition, most of the time it's a royal pain in the royal posterior to glass a planet, bring in a new colony ship, re-seed, and everything.


So, I'd propose the following:

A gravity well which has been wiped clean of military defenses, with no reinforcements immideately in sight, will choose to surrender rather than fight to the death. This will apply even if the planet in question is a homeworld - these are, after all, civilian populations facing orbital bombardment.

However, the chances of this happening drop dramatically if you've ever glassed a planet in the past. Say, a 25% chance drop for each planet you've glassed, ever. If you've glassed four, you're going to have to glass them all, because every civilian in the galaxy knows that they're better off fighting to the death.


Also, on that note, I think that planets should have some sort of surface-based defenses; you shoulden't be able to orbit a planet and bombard it with impunity. The people down there are going to have built missile bases, and they're going to retaliate. I reckon a planet's missiles should be strong, but only target a ship that's bombarding the planet itself. This gives a further incentive to accept a surrender; sure, you can glass them, but you may lose additional ships when the people down there realize all is beyond negotiation and let 'em fly.

Of course, even a people who surrended peacefully aren't going to be too thrilled at the change in management, unless their last management was awful to them. This means they'll convert the planetary grav-well back to their old empire from less cultural pressure (though obviously not when your military ships are in the system), and they'll cave in a big hurry to their old rulers.

So it's a trade-off. Sparing the population gets you a lot of infrastructure intact, but it means you'll have to bombard the people with your culture if you want them to stay yours. Glassing them means you'll have to start over, and you'll get a reputation for unnessary brutality, meaning everyone in the future will be less inclined to go along quietly.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
A gravity well which has been wiped clean of military defenses, with no reinforcements immideately in sight, will choose to surrender rather than fight to the death.


Thats a nightmare to determine!

you shoulden't be able to orbit a planet and bombard it with impunity.


Why not? They're at the bottom of a gravity well, and your at the top. Trying to attack you is going to be a lot more difficult than you attacking them! (Maybe not impossible, but surely "very difficult".
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

A gravity well which has been wiped clean of military defenses, with no reinforcements immideately in sight, will choose to surrender rather than fight to the death.


Thats a nightmare to determine!


Does it have gauss turrets? If no, does it have hangar defenses? If no, does it have any ship of the line? (Any frigate/cruiser meant to fight, any capital ship.) If no, are any of them one jump away and closing? If no, surrender.

you shoulden't be able to orbit a planet and bombard it with impunity.


Why not? They're at the bottom of a gravity well, and your at the top. Trying to attack you is going to be a lot more difficult than you attacking them! (Maybe not impossible, but surely "very difficult".


Why? Ground-based Big Damn Missiles are still viable. They'll have to be larger, but because they don't have the space requirements a ship has, they can afford to lard out building the missiles that may well be their last line of defense.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Keep in mind that the people you are attacking are CIVILIANS not military personnel. I seriously think a surrender mechanic should be instilled for realistic purposes. ShadowDragon's method can work too.

Besides I dont like to attack civilians (yes i'm that honorable )
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Does it have gauss turrets? If no, does it have hangar defenses? If no, does it have any ship of the line? (Any frigate/cruiser meant to fight, any capital ship.) If no, are any of them one jump away and closing? If no, surrender.


Well, if you limit it to one jump away maybe... but that still doesn't leave me the option of assembling a fleet one jump away prior to reinforcing the planet.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
My reply to your offer of surrender! NUTS!

IMO a better way to do it is if the loyalty is below 30% for the occupier and your culture level is not less then 25% of their loyalty level (your culture level would be >7.5%) then you are greeted as a liberator and they "revolt" from the former owner to you.

Otherwise they fight to the death.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

My reply to your offer of surrender! NUTS!

IMO a better way to do it is if the loyalty is below 30% for the occupier and your culture level is not less then 25% of their loyalty level (your culture level would be >7.5%) then you are greeted as a liberator and they "revolt" from the former owner to you.

Otherwise they fight to the death.



THEY are civilians not military, they dont "fight" and I seriously doubt they'll have that kind of mentality about war.

From a conquer's point of view it's a better to have them surrender instead of glassing the planet and colonizing it all over again (Keep in mind that these are civilians we are talking about)
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Hi
Sometimes the civilians are more fanatics from military men's(i hope that i wrote this right).


Ps. Sorry for my English, I'm from Poland :]
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Hi
Sometimes the civilians are more fanatics from military men's(i hope that i wrote this right).


Ps. Sorry for my English, I'm from Poland :]


If a colony has 100% loyalty then fine. But I seriously doubt that a colony would want to die for their empire if their loyalty was below 40%.

So all I'm saying is, add a surrender technique where if a planet is being attacked directly then there is a chance for the colony to want to surrender. The chances of that occurring depends on the loyalty (i.e. 100% = 0 chance, 20% = 40% chance)

Once a colony offers to surrender, the player doesn't have to accept the surrender, but if the player does then he gains the colony as his own, and he gets some additional ships to his fleet. (which is basically what the mjl was saying)

I think you guys misunderstood me so I restated my idea more concisely
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
"(...)The player doesn't have to accept the surrender, but if the player does then he gains the colony as his own, and he gets some additional ships to his fleet."

Player:
1 accept surrender
2 he gets the colony
3 for the period of time the colony has some sort of limits: in building things or something else.
4 no ships from surrender colony ! This would be bad idea. If someone has ability to wipe out defenses and conquer the colony - gave him in a instant more ships its not so beautiful.


Ps. hmmm in the ancients times i was playing in a game " Imperium Galactica" 2. That game was similar to Sins - both are 3d games and have a flat space but battles in IG2 have more 3d then Sins(the IG2 is from 2000 year. Strange ?
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
The battles in Imperium Galactica II didn't occur in the "mainspace", though -- the rest of the galaxy was "on pause" while it processed. And let me point out that the battles don't have to be 3D, but they can be even under the current setup.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

"(...)The player doesn't have to accept the surrender, but if the player does then he gains the colony as his own, and he gets some additional ships to his fleet."

Player:
1 accept surrender
2 he gets the colony
3 for the period of time the colony has some sort of limits: in building things or something else.
4 no ships from surrender colony ! This would be bad idea. If someone has ability to wipe out defenses and conquer the colony - gave him in a instant more ships its not so beautiful.


Ps. hmmm in the ancients times i was playing in a game " Imperium Galactica" 2. That game was similar to Sins - both are 3d games and have a flat space but battles in IG2 have more 3d then Sins(the IG2 is from 2000 year. Strange ?


Ok that's fine too. I'm happy with any variation of my idea just as long as the game has the possibility of surrendering.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
What? Surrender? I think not!

-destroys enemy invasion forces-

Don't worry, your worlds will burn soon enough!

-dispatches large fleet to enemy homeworld-

I just love launching the nukes!
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I love the idea of a surrender mechanic, being a percentage chance based on the planet's loyalty and the level of bombardment... IE rapid bombardments should increase surrender chance... whereas one pillager should not... also this could have an effect on pirates... planets could surrender to pirate bombardments... they dont switch sides, instead you lose 500 credits and the pirates stop bombarding the planet for 5 minutes.

It would be great if the surrender mechanic was influenced by your influence of course...

the benefit of a surrender would be control of the planet without re-colonizing it, a small treasury boost of 500 credits, the bad side would be that since the planet is still enemy population it suffers a loyalty and tax penalties...

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
the bad side would be that since the planet is still enemy population it suffers a loyalty and tax penalties...


Except when you "recolonize", the planet is still mostly the same population as was there before -- all you really do is land a brand new "ruling class". So even when the planet flips via surrender, it was probably more of a "kill the idjuts on the ground who are getting us killed" kinda thing
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Also is there an artillery ship in this game? If not then that should be added (I like using ships that have incredibly long range ) And please forgive some of the typos in the original message


Carriers. All of its damage save its short range broadsides is long-range, and with the fighters, beyond longrange and fully into remote range.

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
yes yes all we are doing is landing the 'ruling class' sorry but thats the worst way to explain it IMO... Hmmm how nice of my planetary bombardments to target the ruling class exclusively... Amazing.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
Hmmm how nice of my planetary bombardments to target the ruling class exclusively... Amazing.


Hey, maybe there is a little "collateral damage"... but not enough to really harm the rest of the population (cold blooded, I know...).