Science and sci-fi fun

Well, I would like to start off by saying that Kosc smells bad.

I'm wondering what you meant when you said that equations that break down current physics are called "bunk," I have read many articles that say there are equations that do this, and a quick google search gave me this one http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=364

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also, why not use dark matter as the energy source?

Dark Matter may be a bit far fetched, especially for the primitive TEC. Besides, we don't know if Dark matter truly exists and in what shape or form (it may have no use as an energy source what so ever), then comes the small matter of harnessing the damn stuff, which, without negative energy, is very difficult.

As far as super advanced (yet none nuclear in the conventional sense) sci fi power sources go, antimatter (that is Deuterium and Antideuterium fusion) is a pretty safe (and rather cool) bet.

What I WOULD like to see in the game is a more natural progression of weapons in the TEC, moving at the very lowest level of technology from coil and railguns that fire projectiles (albeit at relativistic speeds) up to Particle Cannons (one of the only real life Directed Energy Weapons that bears any parallel to fiction).

from what I have seen, dark matter is relatively well supported compared to many other theories about the universe. Also, I misspoke, I meant Dark Energy, which accounts for like 70% of the 'stuff' in the universe (can someone give a better explanation here?)

I also disagree with your version of the TEC, the lore says they enjoyed 'relative peace.' They wouldn't have just arbitrarily stopped weapons research, it would have just been on the backburner.

Ah right, fair enough, and I don't think anybody can give a better explanation, I think "stuff" is how most mainstream scientists put it.



True but then coilguns and railguns are pretty advanced weapons, needing a great deal of energy (beyond any of today's portable means) as well as extremely durable alloys (also, well beyond our current technology) so they are not primitive, just more primitive than lasers and energy turrets.

true, but the war has been going on for some time, and EVERYTHING was dropped in order to improve weapons and ships.

[Moved to Off-Topic]

"Weapon research" being stopped doesn't mean they stopped developing things that can be used as weapons... As I pointed out in another thread, just about anything can be a weapon, from a car / airplane to that ultra-durable really expensive, cool looking pen you just happen to have in your pocket. And industrial grade lasers (used for "peaceful", industrial purposes) have to have security interlocks to prevent anyone from being near them when they activate... why? Because those things would be "weapon-grade" if only they were more portable.

Heck, a welding torch makes a pretty nasty weapon, properly used.

I would almost disagree with you, but chances are kosc will appear in this thread and then it WILL be offtopic

First some facts
Space is big, no . . really big . . ok Extremely big. Face it none of us can really understand how big.
Normal human range (typical distance people go, short of making it a “trip”) 1-35 miles (56 km)
Normal range of a car ~400 miles 644km
777 Air Liner 6906-9208 miles 11112-14816 km
Circumference of the earth 24,859.82 miles 40,008 km.
Low orbit 27,320miles 43,960km
Geo Orbit 163,900miles 263,760km
The Moon 247,900miles 399,000 km
Mars - Earth
average smallest 78 million km or 48 million miles
average greatest 378 million km or 235 million miles

93 million miles = 1 AU
Jupiter 5.203 AU 483.6 million miles 778.3 million km
Neptune 30.06 AU 2,794.4 million miles 4,497.1 million km

light-year 63,240 AU 5,879,000 million miles ~9,460,730 million km
Proxima Centauri ~4.22 light-years 266,900AU

In space you need to move fast to get anywhere
Human running 12mph 19.31 km/h 5.364m/s
Car (average) 60mph 96.56 km/h 26.82m/s
Car (fast) 120mph 193.1 km/h 53.64m/s
777 Air Liner 654.1mph 1053 km/h 292.4m/s
Geo Orbit 2237 mph 3600 km/h 1000m/s
Low orbit 16780 mph 27000 km/h ~7500 m/s
Voyager 1 39,000 mph 63,000 km/h 10830 m/s
Helios 2 150,000 mph 250,000 km/h 69440 m/s
Lightspeed 670,600,000mph 1,079,252,848km/h 299,792,458 m/s

As we see our normal frame of reference is very very small and slow . . Most people do not go very fast or far unless they get on a passenger plane . . then you can travel normally at most 1/2 the circumference of the earth and probably in multiple jumps and all at ~600 or so mph (both of which are rather abstracted . . you never really get the feel of how far or fast you are really going)
So the best Feel of speed and distance a normal person gets is with a car . . which is 10x slower then that same passenger plane which in turn 28x slower then a low orbit (the shuttle).

It would take Helios 2 (our fasted space craft to date) to go from New York and Tsushima Airport Tokyo ~3 min! (Normally >11 hours non stop by plane)

If Voyager 1 At 39,000 mph (63,000 km/h) took the 4.2 light year trip to Proxima Centauri it would still take the vehicle over 73,000 years to get there.

These are just examples of distances and speeds to give space travel a bit of context.

Now take a ship traveling from the moon (which is rather close) to orbit and another leaving orbit and intercepting. Small scale distance and speed.
Lets assume they can accelerate to 24,593 mph (slow Apollo flight speed) (a ~10 hour flight at max speed)
This means a 49,186 mph closing speed.
Now how would they engage? Assuming you could get on a exact reciprocal course (unlikely). they would be with in 1000miles of each other for only ~73secs . . Now this is going rather slow using 60’s tech.

If they both decelerate they could get into a combat envelope and fight it out (though at great cost of time and fuel) Also they Both would have to “plan” where to slow down . . this all but has to be in agreement since any minor course change would leave the ships far apart and would have to accel again toward each other. If say the “attacker” did not want to stop . . then the defender has allot of problems . . they have to get on the same vector as the attacker or have a pitifully small chance to get an opportunity to get close for any amount of time.

Here tech comes into play . . how fast is the acceleration? How long and how many times can you make massive vector changes? What is the range of your sensors, targeting sensors and weapons. What is t he needed reaction time (window) needed to engage and finish a combat?

Assuming sci-fi enhancements. . no fuel worries, and a easy 3g constant accel . . (think at 3g you could get to speed in 14 min)

this leaves weapons . . .

Not necessarily. There are two profiles an attacker could be expected to take in attacking a space object. Either a "zero/zero intercept" which is to say get the to target and be at a dead stop relative to it, or just maximum speed straight past the target. As a result, it is (relatively) easy for both sides to know the other's moves, unless someone is being sneaky. It is quite possible for a defender to manage a zero/zero intercept on a target doing a zero/zero on whatever the defender is defending, assuming that both sides have comparable acceleration, and the defender isn't "out of position" by being somewhere way away from the target.

that would encourage everyone one to be sneaky

That is the point, the attacker (blast I did not make this apparent in the post - sorry) is not necessarily attacking the defender. the attacker would if forced to but the goal would be what ever the defender is . .defending.
If both sides "agree" on a "zero/zero intercept" (or more like a relative combat window) then yes it would be easy but if one does not want to engage or if they want to make it hard for or push an advantage that would be easily in the attackers ability and interest.

The vector differentials limit what the defender can do greatly if trying to engage the attacker. Effectively the defender needs to match the major vector of the attacker before anything but a "snapshot" could be made. Depending on the vectors, needed range and combat time there may be a range from easy to no good solution for the defender.
(I will elaborate later)

ok speed wise it seems that ships can only travel at a certain speed before either
1) they tear themselves apart or 2) they smash into something. one thing that doesn't seem realistic is travling in phase space you are supposedly exsisting outside the common laws of the universe because you are exsisting in a "phased space".

however i am still unclear as to while exsisting outside normal space 1)you can't travel as fast as you like 2)ships take their own tunnels but arrive at the same time at the same place 3) why another group of ships traveling at the same speed are not able to attack the other group because, both are exsisting outside normal rules.

if there are an infinite number of parallel dimensions and it is random, it solves the second two

as to the first, all speed is relative, there are planets that are moving away from each other at a rate FASTER than the speed of light. this is allowed because the rules arent that nothing can travel faster than light, it is that no information can be transferred at a rate faster than the speed of light.

True but then coilguns and railguns are pretty advanced weapons, needing a great deal of energy (beyond any of today's portable means) as well as extremely durable alloys (also, well beyond our current technology) so they are not primitive, just more primitive than lasers and energy turrets.

Not true, They r working on a rail-gun today, to replace tank cannons and ship cannons, and is supposed to have like a 300% increase in range from normal shells. also, they r using tungsten "arrows" instead of explosives, and when the arrow (called so because it is long and thin) impacts on a target at the velocities its traveling at, the destruction is massive compared to an explosion. So if we can build these things, then the TEC sure as hell can, with their space ships and stuff.

That part is wrong . . I should say I made a coilgun . . (but not man portable)
"extremely durable alloys " this is very true . .but . . less so in space . .it is the air shockwave that is a real hindrance to a terrestrial rail-guns. Coilguns . .slightly different ..

GalacticaCAG is right to harp on this stament . . the navy is very long on its way to be weaponiseing a rail-gun.



I do not quite get this . . “they tear themselves apart”? (this is not start trek) . .
There are only a few things stopping a ship from going faster . .
On the low end . . anything less then .5 light speed or so (which is really fast).
Fuel, speed of thrust (Specific impulse), and back pressure/damage from “dust”
If we sci-fi wise eliminate the first 2 then you only have to worry about whacking into partials. You would need to protect your ship from the impact (quite doable) navigational armor/shield would do . . but still these partials would create a sort of drag . . not a lot but it would increase the faster you go.
Faster then .5 light really faster then .75 or .8 then you must deal with relativity and your growing mass which will eventually stop you from accelerating . . but 149900000m/s (.5 c) is quite fast enough.

(sorry work calls . . )

Note it is very important that if you call on sci-fi tech or "waving" of some physical laws to move a story line or highlight a concept, to just make some good fiction. Please state what you are changing in detail.
IE if you are changing physics in order for your concept of a fictional space battle should be like in your opinion, then that is fine as long as you list out what you are doing! What “universe” you are makeing! . . do not assume there is some over arching sci-fi way of thinking or “truth” that everyone knows. (A common mistake of true trekkers . . since all of sci-fi revolves in there eyes around that single Roddenberry’s construction - which it does not) . .
what you end up getting if you do not know what “universe” you are in is “fan boy” like arguments over if a battle star could blow up a star destroyer . . . . it is a totally invalid discussion because they exist in entirely different universes and at in no way compatible . . and thus useless to contemplate.

yea but if there is an infinate number of universes then why do all of the ships get together, why don't they get lost??



you would definatly need some sort of bucket to pick up the crew (my background in pyhsics is extremely limited) because going at that would would certainly turn you to jelly correct?

and also as for these great speeds, there is absolutly no opposite reaction for an object (or a large group of objects) traveling at speed of light .5 or greater, there is no shockwave, no particle displacement, nothing??

The acceleration required to reach that speed in a "short" amount of time could do so, the speed itself is perfectly safe. Well, assuming you avoid any micrometeorites anyway -- or macro-meteorites:D (The repeated impacts would damage the hull unless you have a way to protect it from the degradation)



There is nothing in space to make a shockwave of, really. Since space is 99.99999999% empty. There are, as mentioned above, micrometeorites, but I don't think that'd be enough to cause any real speed degradation except in the (very) long term sense.

One word, Terrorists!

because if they are set to exit at the same point, doesnt matter what they go through, they will all get to that point.
I personally prefer the Infinite Improbability Drive to anything else, but im guessing IC wont use it

Yes what Ron Lugge said
Movement in space is all about acceleration because of the effective practical lack of a top speed (light speed is a quite high and impractical cap). . You are constantly accelerating if using your engines and not reaching a top speed of the engines as do craft on the earth. For example you can accelerate at 1g for a year and get near the light speed cap and you could "coast" virtually forever at any speed in between with no thrust. . . This is quite different from anything we are used to. .
We are used to accelerating for very short times to a relatively low speeds, all the while fighting the environment to do so and straining to keep up the speed. In space (given unlimited power/fuel) you could accelerate "with out" resistance (again there is some but nothing like we are used to) until you almost reach light speed . . the range of relative speed of most people in there lifetime is a measly 0-100 mph and up to ~650 mph on a jet and acceleration is normally way under 1g.
In space because of the speed "cap" being so high 670,600,000mph and acceleration limited to what we can survive . . normal common sense and experience is TOTALY lacking and is one reason people have such a hard time understanding the real extreme numbers we are talking about.
(note I have possibly over simplified things to make them more understandable . .a big problem with science today . . the implication often invalidates the statement to some extend and this is why there are allot of “laymen” out there that “think” they understand. . but really only understand the watered down version. Also they often see that the watered down version has real problems and think scientists are wrong. When it is the simplification that is wrong . . This is maddening for people that have the education to really understand it and also sometimes get themselves named elitists because they get frustrated and give up trying to explain)

“Eventually, a student reasoned that the infinite improbability drive had to be a finite improbability to be a virtual impossibility. After working out exactly how improbable, he fed that value into the finite improbability generator, gave it a really hot cup of tea, and managed to generate the infinite improbability generator out of thin air.”
What a great spoof on sci-fi jargon and such . . Douglas Adams a great man!

" parallel dimensions " are still a theatrical science and thus could be entirely wrong . . also most dimensions that are theorized are not parallel per say but coexisting with in each other (read extremely “small” if that is the correct word for it)

ta erog what do you do for a living?

yells at me

Alderson Disk > Niven Ring > Dyson Sphere