What I think of this game

Really,

from Sins Forums
Well all, you can flame me after I am done, but here it is
In my opion, the game stinks. Ok, now my opservasions. I have played every 2x,3x and 4x space sims that have been released. Since oohhhhh back in 90, this one is not fun to play, yes I know that things are limited but, played a game, small galaxy, NO other players. After a long while, which unless you want to explore as fast as possible, which in this game I did. my 10th system I was greated by 20 pirate corsairs, and at least 100 light frigates, during the battle, groups of light frigates numbering 10 or so would warp in. Now I don't mind that, other than they were out producing my 10 shipyards by a factor of 100 at least. That is to say, for every 10 I produced, they produced 100, at least tha is my estamate.
So, I quit that game, today I started a new game, small galaxy, one opponent, high resoruces, no maraders, easy setting,(this is a joke, the easy setting, have seen no difference in anything between easy and normal.), I decided to allow the game to play for 10 mins so I would have some resources to play with, improved my planet to the max on all advances, had it ringed with 3rd generation guass cannons, had one capital ship, 25 light frigates and 5 LRM frigates.
The force that came out of warp numbered over 75 frigates alone, 10 capital ships with 10 bomber sqauds, 10 LRM ships as well.
Well, after 5 mins there was NO way I was going to win this battle. so guit again
Yes, I do know this is a beta, but quite honestly GC2's beta was much better as well as GC1 which I particapated in the beta's.
I am dissappointed with the aggressivness of the oponites even in easy setting, the lack of balance via the AI, and quite honestly the slow speed in which your home planet is able to ramp up. I had researched the max on gauss cannons, LRM frigates, Lasar improvement as well as every upgrade you could do to a planet and STILL got my ass wiped.
In my opion, if the game mechanics remain as is, I will cancel my order. There are already too many games out there that simulate the same type of battle, but I feel with better balance to the gamer that does NOT LIKE to be forced into exploring, colonizing, etc, which this game seems to bent on doing no matter what you do otherwise.
I am not happy nor exicted with this game one bit. As for all you who are, oh well.

Glenn A Nicholson
11,761 views 33 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks for your feedback Glenn. These details are helpful in BETA. You are right, the difference between easy and normal is minimal at the momment, as the AI is still being refined. Do you mind if I ask what you were spending your money on in your second game? Also, how were your resources and how many planets did you have when the large force of(75/10/10) phased in? What kind of features other than combat, exploration, colonization, etc would you like to see in the game? Just so I know where you are at, what version are you playing?
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I decided to allow the game to play for 10 mins so I would have some resources to play with


does this work with any game? I mean, i hate to sound rude, but what games do you play that you can walk away from the computer for ten minutes and not find out that the comp is winning?
CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I decided to allow the game to play for 10 mins so I would have some resources to play with


does this work with any game? I mean, i hate to sound rude, but what games do you play that you can walk away from the computer for ten minutes and not find out that the comp is winning?


Any sim city game
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Hi Glenn,

Sorry to hear about your bad game experience. As part of the beta process, we want to weed these types of problems out so they won't happen in the final version so we appreciate your feedback. I've had some people looking into your problems and it seems quite likely that you are playing an out of date version. If you play a game without any other players there should not have been any major attacks from the pirates and certainly not within those timeframes or with that number of units. The only version of the game that has this problem is the original beta 2 release. Are you up to date with Stardock Central? There has been multiple patches since the original. If you are up to date, could you send us a save game taken when the attack occurs so we can try and fix it for the next patch?

Thanks for your report and your help 

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Actually, I think I could walk away for an hour and still be winning in most of my games. Once I've got three or four planets with decent defense it's good to go. I forgot I was playing the other day and when I came back I'd lost one lrm frigate in a planet with four gause cannons, two hangars, a repair station, and a fleet of ten light frigates, ten lrm frigates, six carriers and 4 siege frigates.

I kinda wonder how you liked the gal civ series if you don't want to leave your homeworld, but meh... You don't need to rapidly expand in this to beat the ai, maybe another person, but definitely not the ai. Aside from your pirate problem, it's just a matter of getting a couple more sectors under your control. Your home planet, and a couple asteroid planets connected to it are more than enough to set up defenses and have protected production in your home system. Trying to do everything off two metal mines and one crystal just is not going to cut it.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
key words:

Once I've got three or four planets with decent defense it's good to go.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
to be fair we need some of this negative feedback, although I find some of it contradictory.

After a long while, which unless you want to explore as fast as possible, which in this game I did. my 10th system I was greated by 20 pirate corsairs, and at least 100 light frigates, during the battle, groups of light frigates numbering 10 or so would warp in. Now I don't mind that, other than they were out producing my 10 shipyards by a factor of 100 at least. That is to say, for every 10 I produced, they produced 100, at least tha is my estamate.


*cough*

I am dissappointed with the aggressivness of the oponites even in easy setting


*cough*

a few of the points are valid.
lack of balance via the AI,


I am dissappointed with the aggressivness of the oponites even in easy setting


this is a joke, the easy setting, have seen no difference in anything between easy and normal


although some of this just strikes me as... for lack of a better word... stupid
So, I quit that game, today I started a new game, small galaxy, one opponent, high resoruces, no maraders, easy setting,(this is a joke, the easy setting, have seen no difference in anything between easy and normal.), I decided to allow the game to play for 10 mins so I would have some resources to play with, improved my planet to the max on all advances, had it ringed with 3rd generation guass cannons, had one capital ship, 25 light frigates and 5 LRM frigates.
The force that came out of warp numbered over 75 frigates alone, 10 capital ships with 10 bomber sqauds, 10 LRM ships as well.
Well, after 5 mins there was NO way I was going to win this battle. so guit again

1) WHY did you quit when you were lose ONE battle? (and 100/10 is a factor of 10)
2) WHY (when last time you got wipped) did you leave the game for the FIRST 10 minutes, the most pivotal time of the whole game???
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
What the hell is an oponite? Silly and angry post; full of contradiction, awful spelling, and bad grammar. Seriously, get a better 'opinion'.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
now now, dont be so mean

its not a flaming forum and he had a few valid points
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
squrls... rats with good pr
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks for your feedback Glenn. These details are helpful in BETA. You are right, the difference between easy and normal is minimal at the momment, as the AI is still being refined. Do you mind if I ask what you were spending your money on in your second game? Also, how were your resources and how many planets did you have when the large force of(75/10/10) phased in? What kind of features other than combat, exploration, colonization, etc would you like to see in the game? Just so I know where you are at, what version are you playing?


I was upgrading the planet to max. Then defenses, a ring of the gauss cannons, research maxed in gauss, lazar, LRM, that was as far as I got, I had my planet, and I had just colonizied a astroid that was connected to my home planet only. I mean that is what shocked me in the game, to have a force that large come at you, is major overkill.
What I guess I didn't say was I have played ohh 50 games in all, using different tactics, on immedate expansion say vs planet and system build up. And to the one that asked if that has every worked, yes, moo and moo2,Apha Centary, ( cannot spell worth a nickel), as well as both GC games you can colinize only 10 planets and then sit there and research. Can't do that in this game, that is for sure, at least now as it is.
Version is the latest listed, 0.76[b].018.
The mix of the 3 is what I was looking at, your plaque at the start of the game states testing balance, well in the case of what I did, it is not balanced. Just a thought, even though this game is geared more towards instant hostility, at least the way it plays atm, but have some way of stopping your defenses from attacking a scout ship.
It may have been that fact that the gauss guns blew off quite a few of the scouts that got them to jump on me with and elephant.
I have also done a game where I expanded to 20 planets, again,had rings of defensive turrents and also had my planets at the max, and was flooded, is the only word by a LARGE number of ships from one of the other ai players.
Like I said in the first post, system building, and planet improvement is way to slow compared to how fast ships can be built.
And thank you all for your hearfelt responses, it pleases me to see such a responsive group verses some of the other beta's I have been in. Games end up getting better due to this type of conversation, I am not a perfect sole, nor can I spell correctly all the time. Sometimes the phrases put themselves down and quite honestly don't seem to lead anywhere.
I will try to be more objective when complaining?

Glenn  
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
lol, personally ive never had a problem with that, but have you built hangars and repair stations as well? It takes a mix of defensive systems to defend a planet.

as to the ship building being too fast, I haven't found this to be the case, as long as you have a few hangars, ive played on medium (yah, i know its pretty much the same as easy, but i have to make a point here) with only having a total of 3 light ship factories and one cap ship factory, and won the game. true, I am 1337, but still. even if you dont expand, do you make sure to make a defending fleet? asteroids arent really that defensible at all with just tactical defenses, they are pretty much there to slow down the enemies so your main fleet can get in there and kill the enemies.

If you were completely overwhelmed, what was in your fleet's composition?
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
lol, personally ive never had a problem with that, but have you built hangars and repair stations as well? It takes a mix of defensive systems to defend a planet.


Exactly my question... repair stations + gauss cannons + hangars (+ a phase jump inhibitor at later stages) makes a very difficult to defeat defense. Especially if you don't bother with trying to control the entire grav well with defenses (you can't) but just let your bomber's reach out and touch someone, while your cannons / repair centers zap any ships that get to close.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
A gauss cannon is too cheap to be saying defenses build up too slow compared to ships. Your primary restriction is not time, it's money. Considering a single repair station makes one gauss cannon good for 10-15 cobalt frigates, the insignificant cost of it would say the other direction is where the game goes. I'd love to have your ai though... I don't think I've been attacked by a fleet even half that big the entire time, it's a hell of a tease.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
the AI likes to try to homerun a planet, I've seen the 100 ship fleets before (whats worse are the light carrier rushes), anyway the tactic always fails against me because I've always got the fortification on that specific planet to rebuff it. in general the AI should be using an "attack with a flurry of..." rather than "attack once really hard with...", it would make defense much harder.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
The OP has kinda hit on something that I bet is driving the devs crazy. maybe some are thinking..crap we should have just named this game rts , and some are like noo 4x we promised 4x elements!

as well as both GC games you can colinize only 10 planets and then sit there and research. Can't do that in this game, that is for sure, at least now as it is.


I too , have tried the roleplaying role of controlling only a modest amount of planets, being humble but being technologically wise and promoting peace with my neighbouring allies. I tried to manage my race like as if they were vulcans. Not overzealous in their expansion , peaceful , but gaining respect through high technology and good economy.

But it just doenst work like that in Sins because of the RTS element and because winning the game means killing the enemy and being an expansionist whore. Hard to find a solution , maybe people should discuss..

"can and should a player be able to run a modest empire that doesnt expand too much but is able to compensate for the limited resources and pop caps, and still win the game?"

Like could a player in a 8 solar system game , own 10 planets in 1 single system and win? - Offcourse during the bulk of the game , all the AIs will roughly own 10 planets each , but the natural progression of the game is for one race to eventually dominate and own 70 planets vs your *still only 10* planet empire... so your going to lose in Sins in its current state."


ps - to the other complaint that the game is essentially too hard. I think you just need to improve. Like in any game or sport , you start off as a beginner and over time you improve and move through the skill levels. Believe me , I had the same problems as you when I began playing - I was scared of the AI and it kicked my arse. But I stuck with the game , and the biggest enjoyment from the game so far is discovering my own ways to improve. So stick at it , or ask for help here.



Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I have to say the pirate fleets are worse than the other players. I mean it can be very hard to manage at times. I keep 2 attack fleets at each end of my empire, with a strike fleet in the middle for pirates. Later in the game pirates send 30-50 ships at you every 5 mins. Hell is hard for me to make that many ships in that time frame and I have like 10-20 systems. I really hope the pirates get some control soon. I like having to keep a strike fleet to deal with them, but when I have to recall my attack fleets to deal with never ending pirate fleets thats a bit much. I wish the players put up half as much fight as the pirates did.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Do you have the most up-to-date version, Arakiskhan? Sounds like you need to update, pirates were toned down in the last patch (unfortunatly...)
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
the OP does rise some good points, to be honest with you, Im also starting to lose interest in this game, and really starting to wonder if buying it was such a good idea, the IA does need a lot of balancing and work to become a good challenge, at the mo on normal and easy it doesn't and does strange things instead, like sending loads of ships back and forth between sectors for no reason. also the amount of time for a game is way too long, while I do dislike short games, or those that have very little depth, sins is way too long per game for my taste, and have great fears on the lengh of time for MP battles for the same reason, people may give up half way through, unless they stick to small maps, which may not give players the amount of planets needed for a decent battle,

I still have high hopes for the game, I know its a beta and a lot to be added, but I hope things do improve otherwise I too may cancel my order
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
ok, one flamer is good, but if we have an age-old beta player threatening to reneg on his order... this is going to kill moral.

theres still half a year to go to fix these problems, the biggest of which being the AI. have some faith, will ya?
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
Keep in mind online play will be great; you'll have people that actually attack you and your planets, use smart combinations.

The game is slow enough that new players can help out more experience players greatly, while fast enough that you can get a major advantage early in game.



As for fortifying your planets: Don't fortify all of your planets, instead look around your home planet and look for planets where alot of connections go to it (Pretty much look for choke holds between planet connections) and add defense to these.

Don't upgrade all of your things right off the bat, instead build your military up and upgrade as you go. If you run out of space for military units, upgrade that area to get you more.

It's generally cheaper to conquer new planets than to upgrade your planets. Upgrading is more useful for when planets are becoming harder to get, or you have a shit load of money you don't use.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
I've never seen that kind of force (especially the capital ships) come at me in only 15 minutes. I would be crushed as well.

However, I would love it if the AI equipped that many capital ships with its invasion force. Most of the time, they come at me with frigate/light carrier combos of medium size.

The AI really needs to figure out when to send skirmish forces, and when to bring the whole fleet.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
I really think we should wait till after Beta 3 to start canceling orders... (not that I condone such a thing, mind you, but the devs HAVE said that it will be a HUGE update and that there are many 'secrets' that have yet to be unveiled)
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

However, I would love it if the AI equipped that many capital ships with its invasion force. Most of the time, they come at me with frigate/light carrier combos of medium size.


IIRC, the devs have commented on the fact that the AI tends to starve itself, fleet point wise, for capitol ships, and spends way to much of its cash on bounties (both of which are being addressed... in the next patch).

I really think we should wait till after Beta 3 to start canceling orders...


I'd hold out for beta 4, at least!
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Beta 1 = best beta so far (it's alot better than beta 0)
Beta 3 = probably second best, due to multiplayer
Beta 4 = Might tie with 3rd, depending on what it brings
Beta 2 = the lowest one, I never played the first beta but I think this just added some new features, improved textures, improved ai, ect, which the other versions *should* have.