Capital ships shouldn't use fleet points

If they change it so that the capitol points are based on buildings, instead of research, that makes sense. But if its still based on research you'd end up with a situation wherein an empire could potentially support more capitol ships than frigates and cruisers. That strikes me as being off as well.

Hmmm , me likes

As capital ships are now limited in a different way...

I doubt we will ever see a game of more capital ships than frigates...

Not if the max is 16 capships and that you still need the cap points to support them.

What i mean is sorta 2 polls, one for capships and the other for frigats and cruisers

Did they release a patch I haven't seen?

As things stand, you need capitol crews (given by research) and fleet points (given by owning planets).

You're suggesting that you remove the need for fleet points for capitol ships leaving them dependent on capitol crews only. And since those scale with research (in current patch, at least) its theoretically possible for an empire to research the entire crew tree, then get forced back into its "home" system (or a side-system that the enemy hasn't had time to clear out for whatever reason). As a result, you'd have the ability to build 16 capitol ships, from just that one planet.

If they change it to crews being given by buildings, rather than research, my entire point is moot of course.

i have no idea why you said that


True but looking at the time scale i dont think its gonna happen anytime soon.

Also if they removed them from fleet support, you would also have more room for frigats and cruisers.

This is a 4X game and they are supposed to be long, and for those who play long games, they still have stuff to research. So in short games like ranked, they might not be able to research it all.

Which is as it should. If there was any justice in this world one shouldn't be able to research it all in long games as well.

Multi, my point wasn't that it would inevitably lead to the situation I described, just that there would be loopholes (of which that was an extreme example) which probably shouldn't be allowed.

I am not for a cap on any ship type. That will just force me to play the same way evey time.
Give me my ship points and let me spend them how i want....let me build all the same type or whatever.

The problem is that when i play thru the game, and when im able to build another capship, id rather build a capship then 10 cobalts.
So removing the capships from the fleet support, will allow me to have frigats with me too.

The prices are as follows:

Frigats:
Arcova Scout 2
Cobalt Light 4
Javalis LRM 4
Krosov Siege 8
Garda Flak 4
Protev Colony 6

Cruisers:
Perchirien Light Carrier 6
Hoshiko Robotics 4
Cielo Command 8
Kodiak Heavy 10

And all capships are 40.

So for those 40 points id rather build 1 capship then 10 Cobalts.
As it stands now i feel forced to build mostly a force of only Capships when ever possible

I agree with multi, it would be nice if your intire fleet wouldn't be filled with just capships. removing the Fleetpoint requirement will help a lot with that.

See, this is the problem as far as I'm concerned, right there. This suggests to me that capships are too effective for their price, or that frigates should be more powerful at the same price.

There needs to be a counter for massed capital ships; something that makes you as a player want to have a more well-rounded fleet. Fighters are one way to do that, although the Flak Burst ability on the Kol makes that a difficult proposition. I still think a better way is to make capships have narrower firing arcs, so that fast frigates can swarm them at close range.

Not really -- the capships don't have a very effective anti-fighter weapon. Both flak burst and the magnetic thing aren't very effective.

Yep, the flak burst ability is a waste of a perfectly good ability point that could have been used for the superior shield ability or the gauss gun ability. (And it's a waste of antimatter to use.)

Flak frigates are really useful.



Which wouldn't solve the problem. It would just allow you to build even more cap ships, since you could get them much more easy (and you still get frigates too).



I would be all for narrower firing arcs. (Even better, moddable firing arc. Pretty please? )

Imho capships should either get some upkeep cost, or an increase in building costs, supply costs.

A soft limit is much better then the current (research) hard limit.

I think the current system is fine. Maybe just increase the build time on capital ships.

If you continue to find yourself with many capital ships and few frigates and cruisers then maybe fleet supply from planets should be increased.

A have an idea for a new building called supply depot that would be built from tactical points and provide more fleet points. This way you can convert your tactical points from your rear planets that don't need defense. This should give an ample supply of fleet points so when you reach your capital ship limit you should have plenty of points left over for other ships.

I totally agree.

"Space Farms" have been decisively vetoed by certain devs who shall remain nameless.

a real shame. given the limited tactical points, it would add greater flexibility to the game. do i want to be all-offensive with no defenses, or a mix? it would have to be balanced, of course.



i was actually thinking that cap points could be given by cap construction yards. they are expensive to build and take up a lot of space. but there would be a payoff. simple.

Mee 2!
Actually i would prefer if your whole fleet had a "soft limit" instead of a hard limit.

That would force you to balance fleet size/developement and research. Too big fleet = No income to spend on research for those advanced shields.

Cheers

To clarify: With a soft limit i intend a limit similar to the one in Company Of Heroes. The more units you build, the less income you get, imo a good way to simulate the upkeep of your forces.

The game used to be like that. Diff between Sins and Company of Heros is that Sins can last days if you play a large game. Putting a resourse upkeep cost like that will slow the game down a lot. The way it is now. Makes you want to attack. Not many games really do that well...

Don't that depend on how you cap it? Well, as i didn't play the game at that state i can not say anything about that, but if you compare it so CoH (which is, i admit, a vastly different game) it seems to promote an offensive strategy. And it also gives a boost to a player i an desperate situation (i.e. his forces where just wiped out).

But then again, that would i know?

the Unit cap should be enforced economically, not with some kind of arbitrary unit cap.


That is every ship you build should basically put a tax on your resources. When you hit the max number of ships you should be making almost NO money at all or no money at all. Everything will be going into upkeep.


In fact, if you over build it should start draining stored resources. If you don't have enough to play then the ship gets moth balled... which means it just goes dark if it's around an allied world or explodes if its' around anything else. In the event that you have more to pay that ship can be reactivated if it was around an allied world.

Or maybe they should just stop repairing themselves, not building new fighters and not regenerating antimatter. There could be a chance that unsupported ships warp drive could fail when it tries to hyper jump? Speed and turning decreased? My brain is storming.

That works a lot better than just randomly picking a ship to shutdown or destroy.

Make it so that when you can no longer pay all your ship's maintenance costs, they loose a percent of their repair, fighter construction, and antimatter regen rates equal to the percent of unpaid maintenance costs.