TomAlexander's First Impressions

from Sins Forums

Edit: moved to appropriate thread.

I really love the game...its so addictive!!!

I love the graphics and this is easily the best thing about it in terms of atmosphere, scalability and a true sense of 'empire'. But I don't see 100 plus planets even on large...what gives?

The tech tree is very interesting with the ability to research providing you have enough labs not based on purely previous research achievements. Quibbles with the tech is that some of them are a bit dead-endy if you don't want to research for a particular ship or ability. More technologies would be nice.

Am almost afraid to research Insurgency as I've heard the effect will work on your own populated planets against you. True?

I find the planet bonuses could do with a wider range of possibles and more artifacts are needed.

The logistics limit was a huge pain as it limits styles of gaming and I prefer to invade then consolidate/build rather than breakneck colonisation rates to achieve critical mass faster. Could do with customising or raising limits for logistics...tactical is plenty. A capital planet should be able to have increased logistics as it should in theory be the most organised one out of all your planets with the power.

Capital ships don't feel very powerful and the Marza and Kol seems pitiful especially given that they are the most powerful ones. There doesn't seem to be huge differences between the cap ships yet.

Pirate bases are a pig to invade and then you get what?! nowt! Meh...given the effort surely we could get rewards?

I can't seem to work out where a planet's is most strongly influenced by which is annoying when I invade several planet orbits and then I can't colonise with my Akkan!!! It would be good to have the strongest culture have a thicker line on the phase jump.

Diplomacy seems a bit weak with 3 choices (pacts etc)...option to expand?

LOVE the phase jump idea...creates sooo much tension willing your cap ship to get away from battle fast enough to jump. V irritating when you jump to yet another asteroid though.

Planets look beautiful...love the volanic ones cos it looks PRITTY! Could we get more variation in types? Ones that are gas giants (research centres due to chemical abundance), waterworlds (trade/tourism), liquid chemicals (mined for types of offensive weapons) and metal dense planetoids (mined for better/specific armour). Some could be colonised through researching 'artificial planetary rings'...ooo and suns!!!

Can't wait to play the Advent and Vasari!

3,890 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Edit: Ron Lugge's response.

Not really. Since the three races are distinct from one another, rather than sharing an identical "tech tree" as in GC2, balance becomes exponentially harder with each addition to the system. Giving the players the ability to modify would be very nasty to balance.

Lets look at a small example for why by examining a weapons / armor situation...

I don't know how armor actually works in-game, but lets just assume that armor subtracts a flat number from an incoming enemy attack. If you need to increase the armor value for some reason, then to maintain the existing balance you could just increase the damage "across the board" by the same amount. Easy.

Except... armor isn't a constant, its a variable (due to upgrades). Which means that at lower levels, you're doing (percentage wise) a larger amount of damage. Which totally ignores the fact that smaller vessels just got a much larger (percentage) boost to their damage, which is really important because (I think) shields don't get that armor reduction.

Ok, so lets strengthen shields! But wait, no antimatter abilities that drain or restore shields have had their balance shifted... maybe tweak them... now we need to tweak this...

Now imagine if you let the player interfere with this rather delicate system. Ooooh, headaches ensue.

But I don't see 100 plus planets even on large...what gives?


That used to be available under "custom galaxy" options, temporarily disabled due to issues with the upcoming multiplayer beta.


Capital ships don't feel very powerful and the Marza and Kol seems pitiful especially given that they are the most powerful ones. There doesn't seem to be huge differences between the cap ships yet.


Um... capitol ships are massively powerful, compared to frigates and cruisers, and they grow more so at higher levels! Also, there is a huge difference between capitol ships. The Kol is a great front-liner, while the Soza (carrier) is very good at standing back (its embargo ability is really nasty when you're in a nodal enemy system, cutting off their trade).

given the effort surely we could get rewards?


Sure -- just make sure they go after your enemies, and you get to watch your enemies forces dwindle and fall.


I can't seem to work out where a planet's is most strongly influenced by which is annoying when I invade several planet orbits and then I can't colonise with my Akkan!!! It would be good to have the strongest culture have a thicker line on the phase jump.


Its not a matter of who's culture is strongest, its just that you can't colonize if an enemy culture is so strong as to auto-flip. Just wait a little while and you can colonize, and you'll see that the planet is threatening to revolt to the other side -- you have to build broadcast centers fast to keep it.


Diplomacy seems a bit weak with 3 choices (pacts etc)...option to expand?


Dev's are working on it.

Could we get more variation in types?


Thats incoming in later versions.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Im confused who made the above post
CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
TomAlexander made the first post, Ron Lugge made the second.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
ooh okey, was just confused when it had your name
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
It's because I moved them from another thread
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
ooh... shame on me, i should read the first post more carefully
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
i don't want to modify the techs myself...I was just trying to point out that I don't like researching cielos or some of the other cruisers as I don't see much point when I can jump to the strongest cruiser. It would be good to maybe have techs that affect multiple cruisers rather than just one that you might not want. So that's where the dead endy feel comes from for me.

capital ships are supposed to be powerful but I don't get that feeling of awe inspiring power behind its weapons...the actual power is good but the graphical representation of weapons/ship isn't quite there. For example some kind of recoil or an especially pretty beam/cannon effect to highlight the ships special effects. It's a bit static and perhaps samey for me. maybe that is intentional considering lore.

I remember babylon 5's ships were awesome in terms of looks and the representation of POWER through its beams that moved about and there was a ship (vorlon) which merged 3-4 beams into one super beam etc.

put a bounty on the enemy so that the pirates chase after them? I just feel that if I'm going to bother to destroy the pirates (out of sheer evilness) I should get something other than a useless asteroid.

my influence bit was about me invading a new solar system where my culture hadn't yet extended into. I destroyed one colony but couldn't colonise as the enemy's culture was too strong so I started invading the enemy's colonies and was continually frustrated that I couldn't colonise until I stumbled upon an asteroid owned by the enemy. finally I could colonise after 5 invasions!!! It would be good if I invade a planet and then can see where the strongest influencer planet is coming from via phase space line. then I can attack that and hopefully colonise. Bit difficult to use broadcast centres in a galaxy where you can't invade a planet or even a poxy asteroid.

for the rest...yay!!!


Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I don't get that feeling of awe inspiring power behind its weapons...the actual power is good but the graphical representation of weapons/ship isn't quite there.

You are totally right.  Weapon effects have taken a back set to other art assets during these early betas. A few effects are complete but most are currently using placeholders or first draft artwork.  You can expect plenty more in this area closer to release  

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top


Weapon effects have taken a back set to other art assets during these early betas. A few effects are complete but most are currently using placeholders or first draft artwork. You can expect plenty more in this area closer to release


Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Edit: Btw, thanks for the wonderful Rilbur impression, Mr. Dev. I'll be sure to remember it if I ever get a chance to play you in Beta 3

I was just trying to point out that I don't like researching cielos or some of the other cruisers as I don't see much point when I can jump to the strongest cruiser.


I'm sorry, but thats nonsense. Not as in dead wrong, but as in making no sense. How on earth can you jump to the strongest cruiser, when they're all specialized towards different roles and jobs? I'm seriously confused there.

Edit: I musta been blind. You must not understand the fact that ships in this game don't follow the weak->medium->strong->strongest paradigm. Instead, they follow the Starcraft type role system, where each unit has a role, and while more advanced units can be stronger (battlecruiser Vs. wraiths?) they still fill roles very well, and all are needed.

I just feel that if I'm going to bother to destroy the pirates (out of sheer evilness) I should get something other than a useless asteroid.


You get a guarantee that the pirates won't be bothering you (in that system) anymore. Hows that?
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
When I invade a system I go after the empire that is the weakest, often with only a few planets. When the empire's last planet is bombarded, their culture disappears. You just need to move in before the remaining AI does.

[/quote]You get a guarantee that the pirates won't be bothering you (in that system) anymore. Hows that? [/quote]

RL, we have discussed this. Folks often don't equate avoiding a negative as a positive. You didn't catch the flu or got in a car accident last week, do you feel special? Polio has been eradicated, woopee!   We seldom celebrate avoiding calamity.

How about the opportunity to explore the pirate world like other worlds?
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Ron Lugge - I guess I didn't notice that so much as to me I don't get much differentiation between the cruisers and tend to look at armour first so I can build up experience while upgrading weapons. If a cruiser is lightly armoured then it gets fragged before it gets experience. Just thinking about it I'm not sure if cruisers get exp points now lol.

would be good if I could see what cruisers counteract which so that I can put more value on each cruiser. maybe a brief description could be expanded?

the pirates being killed off appeals to my tidyness. I'm not having thugs in my solar system. however they are a pain to kill and also I find it hard to see how they can build that many strong ships when TEC guys start out with fairly rubbish specs. Surely if the pirates are TEC castoffs they should have similar techs?

thinking about them it would be good if my culture is dominant in the solar system to have pirates calling me to bargain for clemency...I like some grovelling!
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
I guess I didn't notice that so much as to me I don't get much differentiation between the cruisers and tend to look at armour first so I can build up experience while upgrading weapons. If a cruiser is lightly armoured then it gets fragged before it gets experience. Just thinking about it I'm not sure if cruisers get exp points now lol.


Cruisers don't get experience. The only ships that get experience are the Capital ships.

Btw. armor is not that important as it looks like. Shields are much more important. First, shields give over 20% damage reduction as long as they're not down, secondly armor may look like a lot compared to the average damage listed in the ship descriptions. But this is average damage (over seconds iirc) ships do much more damage per shot. For example, a light frigate does DamagePerBank:FRONT 76.000000, ie. 76 damage per shot. Even 10 armor points only reduce the damage then by about 13%, much less then what shields do.

would be good if I could see what cruisers counteract which


Cruisers aren't counters to anything. They're support ships (mostly) which enhance your fighting capability of other ships.

maybe a brief description could be expanded?


Carrier
A support cruiser able to manufacture and field one squadron of fighters or bombers.
As it's description says, it gives you some fighter/bomber support.

Heavy cruiser
A heavily armored warship equipped with punishing close range weapons.
As it's name says, it's basically a stronger light frigate.

Command cruiser
A support cruiser adept at assisting and coordinating the attack efforts of others.
Basically it's here to refill shields of your ships faster.

Hoshiko Robotic cruiser
A cruiser equipped with unmanned robots, it excels at close combat assistance with both repair and offensive abilities.
This description is a bit misleading, I agree.. It's very good at repairing your ships, but sucks at combat. So do not research it's damage ability (or at least deactivate it's autocast.)
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
So do not research it's damage ability (or at least deactivate it's autocast.)


Yeah, the "offensive" ability is junk, IMO.

Basically it's here to refill shields of your ships faster.



Alas, true--though the damage boost is a welcome addition against capitol ships
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Could we pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease have higher logistics for the planets and asteroids??? I expand asap in order to find more planets but the pirates occupying the unowned sites severely restrict my growth and can destroy my Akkan with ease. It’s difficult to pound the bejesus out of the pirates when my logistics is severely limited and I’ve had a few games when I actually have my asteroids run out of metal/crystals before I engage the enemy significantly.

I prefer to use Akkans first as their colonise ability enables me to expand rapidly but have experimented using Kols and other ships which all gets killed easily. I don’t mind the enemy being able to kill them but 2 Kols and 30 Lights are chewed up with ease by pirates when I invade an unowned planet/asteroid. What am I doing wrong?! I ramp up the military labs in order to gain access to offensive/defensive techs, increase fleet points and fill the fleet limit but only have 1 planet and 1 asteroid before bumping into strong pirate presences which kills off my fleet!!! I’ve withdrawn when it looks bad for me (btw would LOVE an autoretreat option!) and have managed to save some heavily damaged ships. But then get a crystal/metal crunch which cripples my ability to expand as I have to buy the material then.

Even when capitals are bumped up to experience level 5 they get bumped off relatively easy. My Gauss cannons seems to get destroyed faster than my ships can destroy the enemy’s gauss cannons even at max tech. For example I buy (sometimes) 6 gauss cannons clustered tightly together around a space lane and have them bumped off with ease with one fleet (it seems) when the enemy does the same with 4 its an absolute PIG to destroy one and I have to retreat fast.

Different fleet mixes don’t seem to give me an advantage…I’ve even tried 5 different cap ships at exp level 3 and they JUST about destroy 2 then I have to pull them back. Tips?

  
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I expand asap in order to find more planets but the pirates occupying the unowned sites severely restrict my growth and can destroy my Akkan with ease.


It sounds like you do something seriously wrong.

First, when starting a new game disable marauders, to make it a bit easier.

Secondly, take the Kol for your first capital ship. For it's abilities, chose the shield ability twice and once the Gauss gun. Don't take the flak upgrade. Also build one bomber squadron with the Kol.

Use colony ships to colonize. Two of them are enough. But don't jump them in to planets with pirates, first kill all pirates with your Kol or they'll be killed by them.

I don’t mind the enemy being able to kill them but 2 Kols and 30 Lights are chewed up with ease by pirates when I invade an unowned planet/asteroid. What am I doing wrong?!


You're probably attacking the pirate home world, but even then you shouldn't loose so much. But if you've disabled marauders, just let the pirate home world alone.

For example I buy (sometimes) 6 gauss cannons clustered tightly together around a space lane and have them bumped off with ease with one fleet (it seems)


Build repairs stations behind your gauss cannons, to make them survive for ever.

when the enemy does the same with 4 its an absolute PIG to destroy one and I have to retreat fast.


Use bombers to destroy gauss cannons and move your fleet around them out of range.

I’ve even tried 5 different cap ships at exp level 3 and they JUST about destroy 2 then I have to pull them back.


Take some Cobalt light frigates with you as a buffer, if you've got problems with that.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I’ve even tried 5 different cap ships at exp level 3 and they JUST about destroy 2 then I have to pull them back.


I think your problem is very easily solved. You are trying a direct approach on a very fortified area, It ain't gonna work specially if you do nothing. The ships you are mentioning should be able to handle those 6 Gauss cannons emplacements with ease, but you need to select them and had then focus their attacks on one cannon at a time (all of them) if you have the ships attacking whatever cannon they feel like you are wasting valuable combined fire power. Something else you can do is to add some JRMs to your fleet around 25-40 at all times. You will find that once you get some of the missiles upgrades they can chew almost anything, also group them so you can select them all quick and have then as well to attack a target together,that will increase the damage rate per volley and knock the target pretty quick. Same apply to bomber squads. ALT+left click on unit will select all the units of that type.

cheers
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
thank you vandenburg...your tips made sense.

i prefer not to disable marauders as I find the game too easy then. I never attack pirate base if I can help it...only when maxed out on tech do I actually remove that vermin!

will use your advice on repair station and Kol abilities. how do I find out an enemy's gauss cannon area?

samrec...I always focus attacks on one gauss cannon...not used JRMs on them so will try out and get back to you!

thanks for the tips!
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

how do I find out an enemy's gauss cannon area?

Hold down ALT for lots of tactical information including the enemy weapon ranges.