Sins is messing up my hard drive! (Issue Resolved)

you sure you got the latest version?
0.78.022 compresses the save files. Oh and remember to delete old savegames as they are incompatible with new versions.

Dos can read and write to NTFS partitions so long as you include the right files in your boot image. This sort of thing is rather easy to find around... and worst case you can always load the recovery console which is built into XP and reads NTFS.



What's the size of your system partition? I've tried system configs with small system partitions and it's always turned out badly even when I've used the registry to redirect documents, program files, etc to a separate partition.


That said... 5 gigs being stored anywhere outside of the game's install directory is unacceptable. I've seen no game or program do that before and would STRONGLY suggest the devs relocate such files to the install directory. even if these are files that are being created as a byproduct... have them be created IN the install directory.



I'm really kind of tired of programs scattering themselves all over my computer. Put everything in the install directory and if you must make some registry entries... period.

I don't even understand the point of hte application data folder in the first place.

As Multi said, the new save games are much smaller. You may also wish to delete your recorded games and stats files. Unfortunately, we can't change where these files go as that is the standard dictated by Microsoft for Games for Windows compliance. With your setup where the c drive is a minimal partition for the OS (which we also have some people using) it is typical to have the user specific information folders changed to the data partition (which is usually the big one), I believe this is done during the OS installation though I'm sure there is also a bit more complicated way to do this after installation. This would mean that all Application Data including the Sins material, as well as all other big stuff like My Pictures, My Music, your Outlook email etc wouldn't eat into your limited OS partition space.

wait a minute... I play games all the time that are brand new that don't put saved games in the application data folder.


They either put them in the application's install directory or the "my documents" folder.


As to changing the application data folder it's not that hard.


Just "COPY" the information to the new location, then alter the registry values that tell the computer where to look, and reboot.


Then delete the old folder and you're done. This works in 99 percent of the cases... sometimes programs don't read the registry or don't read it correctly and will put information where the folder would be by default. This is generally pretty rare but it does happen.





Blair... you have to explain this "compliance" thing... what happens if you decide to put your files in the install directory... in a "saved games" folder... like half the game makers out there do all the time?

Then you properly havent brought any "new" games within the last year or 2.

All new games put there savegames and settings in those places, heres a few examples:

Supreme Commander
Sins of a Solar Empire
Bioshock
Overlord
X3 Reunion
Sword of the Stars
Enemy Territory - QUAKE DEMO
DiRT
Company of Heroes
Battlefield 2142

And many more.

The "Games for Windows" brand is pretty new and there aren't very many games out with the logo. We have a massive check list from Microsoft and if we don't pass on everything we don't get the logo. We had it all in My Documents up until just before beta 1 and I much preferred it but we must obey

Check your facts.

I have most of those games and most of them place the saved games in the my documents folder. I mean... I just looked the documents folder and saw my bioshock saved games... and overlord... etc. I only say most because I haven't checked all the ones I own and I don't have all the games on that list... just most of them.

I don't see the point of going after the windows logo though... screw it. Put a big fat "PC-Game" logo on it.

Many other games that are just as new place the saved games in the install directory. I've never seen then put in the application data folder. That's really just a horrible idea because most people don't even know the folder exists... and don't go in it. Given that some of these saved games folders can add up to 100s of megabytes it makes no sense to effectively hide these folders in places people will never go.

example:



See the upper left hand corner?... what's wrong with that?

games for windows is much better for marketing

Uh, Brian? Is there a restriction that there cannot be the option of relocating the read/write directory to a user specified location? If it is the user's choice then Micro$haft has no choice, which I like. And please tell me you're using something OTHER than MS install 3.0!! (With MS install 3 you must retain source installers for all installed products or no uninstall for you.)

The Games for Windows program is just starting to hit full steam, especially at retail.  Basically, if you want to get onto retail shelves moving forward, you have to be in the Games for Windows programs or you will lose sales. 

I don't think I've met anyone who was happy with the location Microsoft chose for where to create/store program data like this. We've been told it's for security reasons (which relates more to Vista than XP). If you don't like this, your only option is to complain to Microsoft. It's not something we can change.

Neither did I. All new games I own have their saves in the c:\my documents folder. Besides that, Microsoft sucks anyway. So I wouldn't put it past them that they just made this restriction for Ironclad to mess with Blair.



Yeah, I would also like that.

Edit:

Ah yeah. Microsoft and security.

Irony is truly dead.

In reference to the game list that included overlord/ET:quake wars...etc.


overlord and ET:quake wars use:
..\usergroup|name\my documents\appropriate directory

sins of a solar empire uses:
..\usergroup|name\applications and data\ironclad\...

I can say the only other game I have using applications and data is cnc3, the rest(including 3 from the list posted previously) use my documents.

I'm back



Yes, I'm using the latest version; file compression and auto saving without graph data stuff. Thanks for asking though. Most of the data was probally before current version. It was my first time seeing it though. I wrote this post because I was suprised and annoyed find it there making a mess in what is supposed to be mean and lean C: drive.



When I first built this thing, I planned to use a windows 98 boot floppy in the event that my computer broke and I needed to salvage data from the C: drive.

Meh... Now I have 3 hard drives for this thing. Maybe I should start to rethink the partition setup. I needed to do this at some point anyhow.
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Anyhow, I guess I'll do some cleaning on my hard drive now.

ok

divinewrath, first having an itty bitty system partition is just a bad idea. As a rule of thumb I make sure mine have at least 10 GB. I know, that sucks... but it's just the way things are.


I then mod the registry to have my documents and desktop folder stored on a separate partition. That way if the first partition crashes my documents and desktop are safe. You could redirect the whole documents and settings folder to a separate partition. The BEST way to do this is by copying the whole contents of your documents and settings folder to a dedicated partition that you'll ONLY use for that purpose... then opening the management console and mounting that partition IN the documents and settings folder UNDER the C drive.


That if any program tries to read C:\Documents and settings\

They'll automatically be redirected to D:\ or whatever the drive letter is of that partition.


This is the MOST fool proof method of fixing this because many programs will not read the registry to see where the documents and settings folder is... and will simply write to "C:\Documents and settings\*"... by making this modification at the NTFS level you basically trick any program that looks in that folder into accessing an entirely different partition. You can do this with the program files folder as well. You "MIGHT" even be able to do it with the Windows folder but it would require special tools and would be a major pain in the ass.


Anyway, by doing this sort of thing you could probably get away with a 5GB system partition. But it's very important that you drop the CONTENTS of these folders DIRECTLY into these partitions. You can't put them in "program files" folder in the partition. The contents of the folders have to be dropped right into the ROOT directory of the partition "AS IS" or it won't work properly.



I've found that in most cases this sort of nonsense isn't worth your time or energy.



What I suggest you do is FIRST get a good bootimage for working in NTFS. PM me if you need help with that. Then convert your system partition into NTFS... fat32 is a horrible file system... I'm offended that I still have to use it on memory cards. It's just awful. It fragments and has major errors far too easily. The only thing I don't like about NTFS is that often I want to just shut off all the stupid security features... but even on the Home version of XP they're always lurking in the background and causing issues.


If you need more space on your primary partition there are tools that will resize your partitions without destroying data. I'd take that step next if you don't want to dedicate a partition to your documents and settings folder.


Edit: Blair, saved games at the very least have to go to the my documents folder... putting them in the application data folder is just obnoxious... I love you guys, but I'd tell your MS buddies that everyone else is putting the saved games in the documents folder or the game install folder and just move on from there.

My C: partition is about 40 GB in size, so its not itty bitty per say. I ussually don't have storage space issues (this was one of those rare cases).

In any case, I don't plan to reformat things until near the end of the year. Thats when I ussually do so I can start out fresh without all of the junk that windows tends to collect.

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Anyhow, I did a quick google search and found some information on that management console stuff. I'll get back to you if there is something I don't understand.

I'd love to change the save game and screenshot directories. We'll talk to them and see what we can do but it's unlikely we can do much. Worth a shot though!

how can they demand you do something that no one else is doing?


that's just silly.

http://www.diyhappy.com/wp-content/images/Massive%20Hunk%20of%20Silly%20Putty.jpg

By providing a (massive) market incentive. They've gotten a lot of video game sellers to place a "games for windows" shelf in their store... prominently. Either just were you walk in, or right at the front (or whatever) of the PC section. Only the games with the logo get in there, only those that follow the rules get the logo, and those that are placed there sell better.

May I suggest a really simple soloution to this problem?

In the install directory, put a shortcut to all the directories that microsoft makes you spread out all over the computer. Then place a big text or document file in the install directory, labeled "README - SHORTCUTS" that explains the "Games for Windows!" nonsense and why it is because of Microsoft that you must spread your game all over the damn computer instead of, you know, doing the sane thing and keeping it all in one nice, easily-deletable chunk in the event all else fails.


There's nothing I hate more than microsoft nonsense - especially since half the programs on my damn PC won't uninstall anymore, it gets to be that a brute-force shift-delete of the install directory is the only way to clear up some gorram harddrive space.

I mean, I'm a computer user, I like to think I'm fairly advanced, but they were talking some stuff that was just over my head, and I don't know how to do it. If someone provided a step-by-step tutorial for XP, maybe I could, but as it is now? I don't think so.

Watch firefly much?

Those 2 things dont fit how can you not uninstall a program properly and call yourself advanced.. hehe no offence
Ive come acrose alot of ppl who just delete what they installed without using the uninstaller that was with the program/game, so when i see the add/remove programs its full of junk and stuff that cant be removed unless you go into the registry database and delete it manualy.

I do agree that M$ aint making it easy on some ppl, even if you uninstall a program, there might be a few folders with some small files that are still there (that might be the uninstallers faults not M$), but when M$ forces dev's to put there stuff in hidden folders where a normal user cant even find them and delete them as he/she pleases, is really a shame.

Don't worry too much about it. I got kind of lost myself. He made it sound like I needed to use a windows feature I've never seen before.

I'll explain what you need to do:
1. Open Administrative tools. You can find it in either control panel (classic view), or start --> All program --> Administrative tools.
2. Open computer management.
3. Expand storage and select disk management. There you can create partitions, and mount them.
4. Pick a NTFS drive and create a new folder in it. Then in computer management, select that same drive and then right click it. Then select "Change Drive Letter and Path...". There you should be able to select add. There you proceed to mount the drive you made that new folder in, to that new drive.

Now you have a folder located in the root of a drive, that will take you to the root of the drive, which has a folder that does the same. I named mine "Endless loop"*.


*Disclaimer: loop is not actually endless. Windows will provide an error message after enough loops.
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Please note that it says it needs and empty folder on a NTFS partition, so I would recommend that you only an empty folder. I'm not sure how the computer will react if the folder already has stuff in it.