Initial impressions of Beta 3


Multiplayer is slow, but really fun.

Don't use random maps as AI placement on them sucks.

Love the new operations points settings for buildings and slots for the planets. However, if I build any labs on an asteroid place, there is no way to fill up all the slots unless I go all labs.

The cultural stuff was completely useless to have in the game. Computer never researched it. I never needed to build it. It was too expensive to build it for what limited use I would have gotten out of it.

Pirates are way overpowered now. Pirates were more of a threat than the AI on hard.

When starting a game, we still need access to the global chat room outside the game, as well as just the in-game chat room. Otherwise, it is hard to coordinate getting people to join.

Other than that, it is great so far. Will post more after a few more games.
10,056 views 28 replies
Reply #1 Top
Well said, we're consolidating notes on it all
Reply #2 Top
IMO cultural stuff is a great/evil thing atm, The AI researches it(even on easy) and uses it to the point it anoys the hell out of me. I also use it to take over other planets, plus i like the different colored phase lanes...

IMO the main use for it is to protect your planets, If your able to spread your culture enough/properly you can prevent a planet from being colonised after an enemy obliterates it, giving you time to try to retake it and at the same time preventing them from getting any sort of foot hold. Right now culture seems fairly 1 sided, It would be great if it had some other effect, beyond the takeover/protection of planets(i think it boosts planet income as well, but that isnt enough really). Culture facilities/research may seem expensive, but imo they are as useful as the crazy amount of gauss turrets i cover secure my planets with.
Reply #3 Top
Culture has several other effects. Increases income (quite a lot imo), increases allegiance, reduces enemy income and improves your repair rates. It also works in conjunction with some special planet bonuses.
Reply #4 Top
Improves repair rates as well? I think sometime along the betas, a better info write up on everything in game is needed because there seems to be a lot I don't know which is not written on info cards or research items.
Reply #5 Top
We'll get them all in there eventually, part of the problem is stuff changes a lot and quickly. The info will always lag behind.
Reply #6 Top
Hi all

to be honest did not really look at beta 2 ,played a few hours then got sick of culture slowing things down but now WOW! multiplayer really opens things up and really injects some life into the game,

was only able to play for a short while about an hour, but i enjoyed my game, it would be nice to merge the chat screen and the list of available games as this would make games easier to manage (hope there will be tournaments next year)

I played a 2v2 game with schod v another couple of players cant think of their names but good players (because i got beat lol) my only complaints was a little lag - will just have to learn to deal with that, but the one thing that could be fixed to offset is the game speed,

aside from the speed i enjoyed the game i am looking forward to playing a free for all game were alliances can be made and borken this will add more excitement to the game,

we played on a small single star system i think about 16 or so planets, i built a kol to start with some light frigates and scouts moved out to take a dead asteriod, the fleet then later on moved to enemy territory were it was engaged by two fleets one with a carrier and one with a battle cruiser, i got bashed, and thought it was game over as i had zero defenses as i was focusing on economy,

the game went a little quiet then basically i was waiting for my doom, i imporved my economy and teched up my military,

we managed to get a trade center up but our traders kept getting blown to smithereens by an enemy fleet i had myself a shiny new kol and about 12 of the missile frigates excellent for killing planet defences and assorted firgates

we did a joint attack from two sides of the enemy system, and got some hits in on the enemy capital ship they turned and ran, we moved on to an enemy home planet and started shooting up some defenses and the enemy capital and we popped it getting revenge for my first captial loss , really needed some more units though, another enemy captial appeared which we started on next

we were being harrased by defenses and fighters/frigates from the home planet, but still were feeling confident as we layed into the enemys kol, and got its sheilds down.

the confidence dissapeared quickly when the enemys original two capitals one of which was a carrier appeared with their fleets i moved to engage with my battered ship and was promptly popped!

my teammate saved some face as he killed the original enemy captial kol that was in system almost simultaneously as he was destroyed by the new capitals that had appeared,

i decieded this was a good end to the game for me, and conceeded the win,to two players you used teamwork very well,

for me multiplayer was far more exciting and you really feel the pain when you loose a captial because you know an opponent will be ithcing to take advantage of you, it was nice to have some banter ingame too, good fun!

hope to have another game or two this week-end and i will do a proper battle report with more detail too



Reply #7 Top
The ai dont research at all they are poo they were better in beta 2 but multiplayer is great. some problems when zooming in and out sometimes the ship icons dont appear.
Reply #8 Top

WOW! multiplayer really opens things up and really injects some life into the game,

Haha...glad you had fun!  I love the game reports!

some problems when zooming in and out sometimes the ship icons dont appear.

Thanks Jperzio, with the camera improvements, we introduced a few issues like this, we'll get them sorted out for you guys shortly.

 

Reply #9 Top
my teammate saved some face as he killed the original enemy captial kol that was in system almost simultaneously as he was destroyed by the new capitals that had appeared


No, no that was not my capital ship, i just built it. My capital ship was a Akkan.

Then over to game speed. It could be speeded up a little but the main problem was lag. Whit out it it would have ran 2-3 times faster. As it was now the ships stuttered ahead and the game froze for 5-6 seconds a couple of times/minute.

Cheers
Reply #10 Top
Oh btw, i like the zoom to cursor thingie, but i have some ideas.

It should only ZTC when zooming in and not out. Plus if you click the mouse wheel to centre on a unit it should be automatically be disabled until you move the camera. That way you have the best of both worlds. In my world at least.

Cheers
Reply #11 Top
OH! Hear hear! Another idea!

You should make a separate multiplayer launcher. That way you could play single player windowed (or do whatever you're doing with your computer, naughty boy) while waiting for someone to play with.

That should come with the usual features, like measured latencies, possibility of sending a wake-up call and so on.

As a mp game of SOASE can take a while there could be times you'll need to wait a fair bit of time before you find players, especially if you want to launch a big game.

Reply #12 Top
I'm not entirely sure why but it seems easier...I make mincemeat of pirates who attack and haven't suffered any losses so far.
Reply #13 Top
Thanks Jperzio, with the camera improvements, we introduced a few issues like this, we'll get them sorted out for you guys shortly.


FYI, this used to happen in beta 2 as well. I even sent in some save games where it had happened.
Reply #14 Top
In the game we played the pirates worked well. You could predict how much bounty it took to get them to go after someone.

bombers seem a bit to strong but it could have been a fluke in a fight between 4 kols at levels 1 and 2, 10 colbolts and 5 flak frigs it was a fight to the end going up against 22 bombers and 7 colbolts. I lost all 4 kols but won the battle. (he retreated with only 2 carriers left.

now that we know how to send msg privatley, back stabbing can be better coordinated.

overall the game played very well. I do recommend that we be able to stay in the main chat while setting up a game as it would facility assisting newer players in getting them into a game.

Also can it be changed that a player can join in mid game? taking over an Ai or allowing a player "hand over" to someone else cause he needs to leeave? Perhaps making it so that only the host controls if that can be done.

Reply #15 Top
ok here are MY initial impressions


is is alot slower than what I am used, it might be hard to schedule it in, (I only allocate one hour a day on weekdays to gaming)

also THIER IS NO PAUSE BUTTON!!!!!!!

it gets on my nerves, I need a way to pause the game.





lastly I have about a four year old comp.
windows xp, 1.5 ram, and intil pentium four


and lags like CRAZY!!!

I had to turn all special effects off, put graphics to lowest (nvr could tell the differnce anyway) and set my computer to run as optimaly as it can.


so now it only lags once and awhile when I scrol, but I fear to think what will hapen when I play anything larger than 1v1.



I realize it is my Ram, I don't have the mimimum (I think(, so I tried to increase my virtual ram, it didn't seem to help (or I didn't notice if it did)

is thier anyway to optimize my ram usage even more so I dont start lagging like crazy when I play on multiplayer?
Reply #16 Top
If you don't reach minimum specs... well why would subject yourself to such a bad laggy MP experience?
Reply #17 Top
There is a pause, in single player at least. The pause key

Here are my impressions, and note I haven't played the earlier betas so some things may not be new/repeated/whatever

I've only had a couple hours to play so I didn't jump into any MP games, waiting for the weekend when I can guarantee the ability to at least finish a game And, thanks to Multi's vids I pretty much skipped the tutorials.

Before I got the beta I mentioned Hegemonia in another thread, and when I actually played it, it brought back some of those good experiences. The game has a good level of depth without being overly complicated. It starts off fairly slow, and immediately you get pulled in many different directions because there's so much to do, and in the beginning resource income is slow. But, once you colonize a few planets and set up some trade outposts, it picks up the pace nicely.

The tech trees are interesting and diverse, but there's also no specialization, you can get everything as long as you have the resources for research. It would be interesting if, for example, a player could specialize in capital ship combat for some extra bonuses, or carriers, or small-ship combat. But that's just icing on the cake, as it were

The combat AI is pretty good, all in all. I've seen some good focus firing, and the auto cast abilities seem to do okay. But sometimes the auto-cast AI behaves strangely. Several times I've had my Dreadnaught bombarding a planet, only to break off to use the radiation bomb on some enemy scout entering the gravity field. Also I haven't experimented much with support autocasts (like the shield restore on one of the capitals), I wonder if it's smart enough to, say, fix up shields on one of your capitals that's getting pounded rather than a small frigate. It could be good to have basic selectable AI controls for such cases, since most abilities target either anything that's an enemy or anything that's friendly. You could have something like Ignore Frigates and Cruisers, Ignore Capitals, Ignore Structures and then your autocasts would function under those paremeters.

The enemy AI I can't comment too much on yet, since I've only done a game on Easy to learn the ropes. But even then I was cursing because he built up a bunch of broadcasting centers and I ignored them, at one point I had to scramble to scuttle some labs on one of my planets and build a broadcast center because the AI was taking it over with culture

Now after all the more technical stuff, the fun factor is definitely there. I've read that most of the effects and such are placeholders and battles will be shinier, and that's good because right now I think that's the most underwhelming part of the game. Even with big fleets battles are over very quickly because of all the focus fire that goes on. I've always imagined long engagements that left you time for reinforcements to arrive even from 2 jumps away or something, but right now there's really no time for that. I guess I can make a comparison with SW: Empire at War. There, when you were engaged in a space battle, everything was shooting everything with something, basically. Ships were flying around everywhere and large ships that couldn't turn fast would use their different turrets on different targets within all their arcs of fire, etc. Here, it's more of focus fire > pop, repeat. It's just a bit less flashy Hopefully when the final effects are added it will feel and look like you're having huge fleet battles, as right now it's more about watching icons disappear But still, that's a pretty minor gripe with a game that's built very well. I started playing yesterday and before I knew it I was cursing the evil evil work because I didn't want to go to sleep

So, given that the game is in beta and there are still a bunch of gameplay additions coming with beta 4, I would say Sins definitely looks like it'll shape up to be a very addictive and fun game to play! Can't wait to jump in multiplayer this weekend and get my butt kicked by more advanced players
Reply #18 Top
The game is too slow, its gone from RTS (BETA1) to 4X (Beta3).... Its needs more RTS...
Reply #19 Top
I wonder if it's smart enough to, say, fix up shields on one of your capitals that's getting pounded rather than a small frigate


No it's not. Basically the current AI is very stupid. And it won't be improved much until Beta 4 afaik.

Even with big fleets battles are over very quickly because of all the focus fire that goes on. I've always imagined long engagements that left you time for reinforcements to arrive even from 2 jumps away or something, but right now there's really no time for that.


Here, it's more of focus fire > pop, repeat.


Yeah, they should cram up shield mitigation a lot more imho.
Reply #20 Top
Yeah, a much higher shield mitigation would certainly do the trick in reducing the 'Focus Fire Rules ALL' syndrome. Standard shield mitigation should be able to go up to something like 70% (with the Kol special bringing it to 90%).

Now THAT would make fleet battles very different (and would give the AI a serious boost in tactical effectiveness).
Reply #21 Top
It is pretty slow in the beginning, and I can see it being an issue in small games. In the one against the AI I played (1v1), I got to the point where I was cranking out much more money than I could spend and if there was much left to destroy the pace would've been quite fast But yes, the start is slow. You need ships, labs, research, trade all at once and you're barely making anything for a while.
Reply #22 Top
The game is too slow, its gone from RTS (BETA1) to 4X (Beta3).... Its needs more RTS...


Hardly! It has very little of what makes 4X games 'good' its far too much a RTS with dressing and sadly the most 4X aspect it has is speed rate! Diplomacy is nothing more than an equation here, and lacks any personality (unlike other 4X games where they have SOME).

Generally speaking the game needs to avoid the pitfall of too slow, and the pitfall of too RTS, ie micromanagement = god. Frankly the game could go farther by looking more at exploration and less at conflict right now... the artifacts was a great idea!

Give me the random events of planet colonization from galactic civ, with actualy consequences to diplomacy... instead of having good/evil players, just have everyone be mostly good, and the more evil your choices the less faithful your allies.

At any rate, it could also use anomalies ala Galciv. These are the better parts of 4X IMO.

Its a very difficult game they are trying to make, I have to say its remarkable that it even exists!
Reply #23 Top
Quite a few of these things will be present in the final version.  Obviously, it's a fine line to hit between 4X depth and RTS speed, but we're always looking at it.
Reply #24 Top

The game is too slow, its gone from RTS (BETA1) to 4X (Beta3).... Its needs more RTS...


Hardly! It has very little of what makes 4X games 'good' its far too much a RTS with dressing and sadly the most 4X aspect it has is speed rate! Diplomacy is nothing more than an equation here, and lacks any personality (unlike other 4X games where they have SOME).

Generally speaking the game needs to avoid the pitfall of too slow, and the pitfall of too RTS, ie micromanagement = god. Frankly the game could go farther by looking more at exploration and less at conflict right now... the artifacts was a great idea!

Give me the random events of planet colonization from galactic civ, with actualy consequences to diplomacy... instead of having good/evil players, just have everyone be mostly good, and the more evil your choices the less faithful your allies.

At any rate, it could also use anomalies ala Galciv. These are the better parts of 4X IMO.

Its a very difficult game they are trying to make, I have to say its remarkable that it even exists!


Remember I was only focusing on SPEED... I'd like the elements of more 4x in this game, but with the speed of an RTS, as you stated "sadly the most 4X aspect it has is speed rate!" and thats the one aspect of the 4x style of play I don't want...
Reply #25 Top
Remember I was only focusing on SPEED... I'd like the elements of more 4x in this game, but with the speed of an RTS, as you stated "sadly the most 4X aspect it has is speed rate!" and thats the one aspect of the 4x style of play I don't want...


Agree.

Did the devs change something with the game speed/resource gather rate?

I didn't play Sins for some days in anticipation of beta 3 and I don't remember it being so agonizingly slow. It really is very boring for me right now.