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Babylon 5 Mod Ideas

Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

Babylon 5 Mod Ideas

So since it should be inevitable for a B5 mod to get made, i figure it couldn't hurt to talk some about it, and perhaps maybe plan and get a team going for it.

Major Major Questions...

1. How many playable races to attempt, and which ones?

2. How many ships per faction, should ship roles/designs and numbers be based off the existing Sins races or not care?

3. Which general era of ships to use for the Earth Alliance?

4. Should capital ship mechanics remain the same? IE should the current game mechanics be kept in more or less the same condition?

My personal ideas is that the general game should play about the same, but that many ships should be condensed into one for some races, or expanded for others, notably I am in favor of maintaining only 3 Capital ship choices, as I think finding 5 for each major race would be quickly silly.

I would say for the beggining 3 balanced major races would be best, in general I view the technical/qualitative tiers being as such

Lowest: League Worlds, Early EA, Dilgar
Medium: EA, Centauri, Narn
High: Minbari, Drahk
Godish: Shadows, Vorlons, Additional Ancients

The mod would preferably come with several maps, one of which would represent the B5 universe just before the shadow war, it would be nice if a timer was included so that perhaps 3 hours into the game 2 special pirate worlds (the Shadows and the Vorlons) launch massive and mean pirate strikes... regular Raider Pirates would otherwise conduct themselves normally.

Other special maps/scenarios: Dilgar EA war... Earth Minbari War, and Narn Centauri War (The Shadows should/could be present here as well.)

While some races would be playable in these scenarios, for example in the Earth-Dilgar war you could play these or the League worlds, as the Early EA faction would be balanced with them; but the Earth Minbari War should be a 2V1, with the Minbari being powerful enough to take on two players.

This means that in the generic game, the balanced races would be EA, Narn and Centauri. The Minbari, Drahk and League worlds would all be special militia or pirate forces, we could easily design new planets that corresponded to these races and would spawn with special militia units, thus you wouldn't have Minbar being guarded by Raiders or Drazi.

Ship wise, the most important is obviously the Capitals- My personal choices for the 3 main powers are as such, with the TEC similar ship noted.

EA: Omega Destroyer (Kol) Posideon Super Carrier (Sova) Nova Dreadnought (Marza)

Narn: Bin`Tak Dreadnought (Kol) G`Quan Heavy Cruiser (Dunov) (Third????)

Centauri: Primus BattleCruiser (Dunov?) Octurion Battlship (Kol) Balvarin Carrier (Akkan?)

Additional Scenarios: Psi Corp Rebellion, EA Civil War, Mars Rebellion, The Centauri-League War (with Drahk as Pirates?) The list goes on and on.

Oh and for the EA, I would use Hyperions as the basic combat unit, to give fans an iconic mainstay for their fleets, as opposed to the too awesome for Frigate Omega, and the lesser known Olympus, Tethys, Saggitarius, or Oracle... (or the others

)

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

well since draining power wouldn't stop their current speed, just cut acceleration; yes that is possible especially if some of those ships had very simple manuvering systems.... it probablly just drained power from complicated systems...

Like I said JMS was never the most consistent author. I think he probablly meant that the fleet could defeat one of their fleets but not both, and most importantly he was obviously underestimating them... These fleets were big, nasty and finally going up against their arch rivals... the Gloves as they say, were Off.

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There was no clearly suggested reason as to why, other than the telepath development, so it pretty much happened overnight

The telepathic jamming is why. After all, with jamming the shadow vessels all of a sudden became helpless targets... and its pretty easy to focus all your weapons on a helpless target

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

PS: I think they suddenly were able to take them out because the Shaddows element of surprise was gone and the races started fielding much larger numbers of craft against them.

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

A funky scenario for players could be that one is the Shadows and one is the Vorlons, and the rest of the planets are all the little races... whoever gains the most allies and exterminations at the end wins...?

Or perhaps a special tech called 'Beyond the Rim'

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The telepathic jamming is why. After all, with jamming the shadow vessels all of a sudden became helpless targets... and its pretty easy to focus all your weapons on a helpless target

But that's sort of a plot hole itself. Lyta was barely able to keep one ship jammed for long, and she was modified by the Vorlons and was higher than P12 (since she 'beat' Bester plenty of times after). And high rated telepaths are supposed to be very rare. Granted there were Minbari telepaths that could also jam, but they probably couldn't have found *that* many sufficiently powerful ones

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Hehe, of course Sheridan could have just let the Vorlon fleet and Shadow fleet massacre each other. He would have been able to wipe up whatever was left over.

I never did understand why he used those nukes to stop the two enemy fleets from killing each other off. Probably had to do with the First One's trying to teach the Shadows/Vorlons a lesson, not kill them off.

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Oh, and..

Plot holes are lovely, aren't they? Apparently the ships were drained of power, but still able to maneuver.

Wouldn't Sheridan's ship have been able to maneuver away from the Shadow missiles then, and his fleet wouldn't have needed to suicide against them?

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Guys it was a story, and good story telling at that nothing more.

Just assume there was a reason and they simply didn't cover it in that episode.

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

cuz you know... Thats entertaining...

Lame...

though we could go back to mod discussion-

Perhaps the smaller races could have a big tech advancement which allows them to employ telepaths on ships and freeze shaddow craft lol.

In fact general telepath development would be cool... and of course the unfortunate Narns would have none.

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Would depend on how much you wanted to connect Narns and telepaths. While their genes are too diluted to naturally produce telepaths, there was that one episode where a drug stimulated the gene in G'kar

So, if you were making a scenario around telepaths, that could easily be something to add into research! Controlled medical experiments to create telepathic druggies

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The telepaths were a significant weapon against the Shadows, but they would have been relatively useless against the Vorlons.

Since the Vorlons were capable of upgrading Lyta, I can only assume that their telepathic abilities far outweighed anything the alliance could have fielded.

And then the technology of their ships was beyond that of the alliance fleet as well. The Whitestar ships were based partly on Vorlon technology, but still had less-advanced Minbari designs as well.

Perhaps the combined numbers of the weaker tech races might have been able to overwhelm the vastly superior ships of either race. I think the Shadows being their easiest targets with the aid of the telepaths.

But I don't recall the alliance having any special ace in the hole to combat the Vorlons, beings of pure energy from what I remember.

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All true. They really only had a few minor engagements with Vorlons, so I can only assume it just came down to blowing up their ships the old fashioned way

It's a lot easier to gauge military strength versus the Shadows than Vorlons. In the one episode where Kosh had some Vorlon ships destroy a Shadow raiding party, it showed the Shadow weapons basically do no damage to Vorlon ships, yet in another episode they were being destroyed by more conventional weapons.

So there are plenty of inconsistencies and things left to wandering imaginations

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Well, the Vorlon ships were organic, and could absorb some of the damage that hit them, from what I recall. Obviously they weren't invincible.

Perhaps the Shadow party they engaged didn't survive long enough to dish out the necessary damage to overcome the organic armor. While the other episode where more conventional weapons were used perhaps they were up against greater numbers/more firepower?

It could also be explained in the sense of the Stargate series. Where the Asgards energy weapons were being absorbed by the Replicators and needed the help of the projectile-based earth guns to do any damage.

Perhaps the Vorlons defenses were more geared towards protecting themselves from Shadow technology, and thus weaker in protection against the different technologies of the weaker races, whom they didn't expect to have to engage in conflict with.

I mean, if you look at this planet, combine all the ants vs all the humans and the ants outweigh us.

And it takes 500,000 ants to weigh one pound. So that means millions of ants for every person on this planet, so they could easily overwhelm us with their numbers. But we base our weaponry on enemies we expect to fight......other humans. Most of our weaponry would be useless if we had to fight all the ants.

Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but a similar concept. The ants being all the races compared to the Vorlons.

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Most of our weaponry would be useless if we had to fight all the ants.

I just pictured a guy with a flamethrower

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In the one episode where Kosh had some Vorlon ships destroy a Shadow raiding party, it showed the Shadow weapons basically do no damage to Vorlon ships, yet in another episode they were being destroyed by more conventional weapons.

Let me just point out that that was an ambush situation -- the shadow vessels would have been "confused" to begin with, and the reason the shadow vessels didn't do much to the vorlons is because A) they missed the fighters a lot, and

they didn't get many shots at the heavy guys before they got blown up.

Given the evidence that normal shadow vessels are "unmanned" (at the very least, no shadows on board) whereas the Vorlon vessels were usually "manned" (Vorlons on board) I'd surmise that Vorlon ships were individually more powerful, but fewer in number too.

I just pictured a guy with a flamethrower

Most of our weapons would be useless. And even a flamethrower would be of limited utility -- they'd just spread out and coat the entire "plain" around you, climbing up any trees / walls / ceilings available to drop down on you from above (depending on which ant is doing the attacking).

A) She ended up blocking three ships at once when they sent four ships after the whitestar

Its possible that its something you have to "train" for -- the more you do it, the more capable you are, so while she could only "just" block that first one, she got a lot better
C) Personally, I've always assumed that it wasn't that it took power to block the shadow vessel, half so much as it took concentration -- e. g. it doesn't take much strength to block any given vessel, but you can't really go around blocking others at the same time, you need to concentrate on the one your jamming.

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Most of our weaponry would be useless if we had to fight all the ants.

I just pictured a guy with a flamethrower

Yeah, when I've told people about ants they usually say "we could just step on them"

I don't know about you, but trying to squash or flambe' millions of ants by yourself (since there are millions for each individual person on this planet) would be a pretty impossible order before you are overrun and eaten.

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Hmmm, we could possibly use bio weapons on them.

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Hmmm, we could possibly use bio weapons on them.

The problem is getting the bio weapons to:

1. Not affect humans or other life forms/plant life we're trying to preserve

2. Get enough of the ants (since they can tunnel underground it would be extremely difficult to get at all of them before they could overwhelm us with their ridiculously superior numbers (if they were organized, we'd never stand a chance)

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Nuke the ants...that'd probably work.

Or if not irradatig the entire world is such a high priority, naplam them (non-nuking fun suckers).

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1. How many playable races to attempt, and which ones?

The 4 main ones at first,
Earth Alliance
Minbari
Centuari
Narn

2. How many ships per faction, should ship roles/designs and numbers be based off the existing Sins races or not care?
Definately have to do the ones from the show we see, then add in others.

3. Which general era of ships to use for the Earth Alliance?
Third Age to early crusade

4. Should capital ship mechanics remain the same? IE should the current game mechanics be kept in more or less the same condition?
yes, it can be made to work, for example the sharlins and the warlock classes would take cap ship slots.

For those who are making this mod, I have already started making ship lists for the four main races, with weapon lists n all for each ship of them. Taking all the info from "a call to arms" table top minatures game books. So it is accurate information since it is cannon and it has lots of ships, so if you wish for me to post some, let me know, k.

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For those who are making this mod, I have already started making ship lists for the four main races, with weapon lists n all for each ship of them. Taking all the info from "a call to arms" table top minatures game books. So it is accurate information since it is cannon and it has lots of ships, so if you wish for me to post some, let me know, k.

Canon information is always quite useful, especially if it lists how many laser cannons and the like are on board ships.

./innocent face

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Well sorry bout doublepost, but for some reason it wouldnt let me edit.

Here is the ship list i got goin, with stats (not included in this list) for each of the ships.

EA:

Frigate replacements:
---“___” colony ship
---Oracle-class Scout Cruiser
---Hermes-class Transport
---Tethys-class Cutter
---Sagittarius-class Cruiser
---Olympus-class Corvette
---Artemis-class Heavy Frigate
---Chronos-class Attack Frigate

Cruiser replacements:
---Orestes-class System Monitor
---Avenger-class Heavy Carrier
---Hyperion-class Cruiser
---Delphi-class Advanced Scout
---Appollo-class Bombardment Cruiser
---Marathon-class Advanced Cruiser

Capital Ship replacements:
---Nova-class Dreadnought
---Omega-class Heavy Destroyer
---Poseiden-class Super Carrier
---Explorer-class Survey Ship
---Warlock-class Advanced Destroyer
---Nemesis-class Advanced Destroyer

Fighter/bomber replacement:
---Starfury
---Thunderbolt

Minbari

Frigate replacements:
---“___” colony ship
---Leshath-class Heavy Scout
---Torotha-class Assault Frigate
---Tigara-class Attack Cruiser

Cruiser replacements:
---Morshin-class Carrier
---Tinashi-class Warship
---Neshatan-class Gunship

Capital Ship Replacements:
---Troligan-class Armoured Cruiser
---Sharlin-class War Cruiser
---Neroon-class Heavy War Cruiser

Fighter/bomber replacement:
---Nial Heavy Fighter
---Tishat Medium Fighter
---Flyer

Centauri

Frigate replacement:
---“___” colony ship
---Maximus-class Frigate
---Morgrath-class Frigate
---Kutai-class Gunship
---Haven-class Patrol Boat
---Corvan-class Scout
---Darkner-class Fast Attack Frigate

Cruiser replacement:
---Vorchan-class Warship
---Demos-class Heavy Warship
---Dargan-class Strike Cruiser
---Altarian-class Destroyer
---Centurion-class Attack Cruiser
---Liati-class Advanced Cruiser
---Sulust-class Escort Destroyer

Capital Ship replacements:
---Primus-class Battlecruiser
---Balvarin-class Carrier
---Octurion-class Battleship
---Adira-class Royal Battleship

Fighter/bomber replacement:
---Razik Light Fighter
---Rutarian Strike Fighter
---Sentri Medium Fighter

Narn

Frigate replacement:
---“___” colony ship
---Sho’Kos-class Patrol Cutter
---Sho’Kar-class Light Scout Cruiser
---Ka’Toc-class Battle Destroyer
---Thentus-class Frigate
---G’Karith-class Patrol Cruiser
---Dag’Kar-class Missile Frigate

Cruiser replacement:
---Rongoth-class Destroyer
---Var’Nic-class Long Range Destroyer
---T’Loth-class Assault Cruiser

Capital Ship replacement:
---G’Quan-class Heavy Cruiser
---G’Vrahn-class Fast Cruiser
---Bin’Tak-class Dreadnought
---Ka’Bin’Tak-class Super Dreadnought

Fighter/Bomber replacement:
---Frazi
---Gorith

*edit, now i know why i couldnt edit the first post, someone was posting

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*edit, now i know why i couldnt edit the first post, someone was posting

lol, poor you

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

I have my own list and it differs a bit- though I too was going from A Call To Arms, as it simply provides more than enough designs and names and ship roles.

We differ on some significant issues though Cloud.

My design philosophy:

1. Don't overburden each race with too many ships; IE don't add ships to any existing list unless absolutely neccessary.

2. Certain variants are pointless from ACTA (the Ka-Bin-Tak for example)

3. 3 Capital ships each is easier to balance for now.

4. Splitting the EA into 2 factions for 2 distinct eras is a better idea than having everything at once; by third age you never see certain ships. Also we want this to be fun, and I personally don't want to change too much from Sins, thus the main attack frigate should remain heavily used, and thereby should be something far more recognizable than the ones you posted... The Hyperion would do very well here... we all love its design, as a third age ship its role is outdated from cruiser, as ships have gotten bigger, the EA destroyer is much bigger for example. It might as well be the standard frigate.

What modding skills do you have Cloud? (Just curious not bragging or anything like that) We should confer via email if need be and work together, but we may want to wait for beta 4 before too too much planning. That way we will have a better idea of which abilities will be available where.

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

PS are you sure you want to balance the Minbari with lesser races? They were always and obviously much more powerful than the other races technologically. Even in ACTA they have undergone quite a bit of stress in trying to balance them, but still keep the right feel. I feel that for default gameplay they shouldn't be playable but in certain scenarios they would be.

my 2cents

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