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Consolidated Vasari Opinion Thread

Consolidated Vasari Opinion Thread

Okay, hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a mess. It's pretty obvious everyone has an opinion on how the Vasari are, how they want them to be, and what they want to see changed.

Right now, these opinions are scattered in a bunch of threads all over the forum. We know the devs try to keep up on all the reads, but why not make it easier for them?

Here's what I propose:

Everyone sit down, and come up with a way to summarize your opinion on the Vasari. What you like, what you don't, if you have any suggestions, whatever.

However, let's also obey these ground rules:

NO replying to critique/debate/insult/whatever another post in this thread. You post your opinion, other people post theirs.
NO jabs/insults (no matter how well hidden) at other people/ideas/developers for not agreeing with your views.
TRY to say everything you need/want to say in one post so the devs/forum goers can read it once and get everything you were trying to say. If you need to add something and you can't edit, reference the old post and quote what you are adding to/modifying to make the flow of thought easier on readers.

This is not another thread to argue/debate different ideas for the Vasari. It is only a thread where everyone posts their opinions so the devs don't need to shuffle through 10 threads riddled with arguments and debates to figure out what people think.
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That said, here's my take. Overall, I'm very happy with the Vasari and so far I enjoy them more than the TEC. Their special abilities (especially on capitals) make them quite a bit more varied than their TEC counterparts, and their tech trees are diverse enough to offer some interesting bonuses as well.

But the real diversity only comes into play with late-game tech levels, that are mostly unreachable in small/medium games unless they drag out for unreasonably long periods of time. This denies the Vasari most of their tricks, and more or less forces the player to play them in a manner very similar to the TEC. Yes, they have a bit smaller fleets, and they start off a bit slower, but the core gameplay is essentially the same.

For this reason, I believe the Vasari could benefit from a two main tweaks, both of which were already suggested by me and others:

1) Make some of their defining techs (such as phase gates) available earlier in the tech tree, making them a common enough occurence in at least medium games, and thus allowing the Vasari to be played the way they are meant to be.

2) Slightly rebalance their core ships to provide a little more firepower at the cost of some survivability and possibly even higher fleet point requirement (the costs I feel are fairly sufficient, at least metal. Perhaps a little more credits/crystal, but the metal drags down production in the beginning pretty well as it is).

The reasoning behind it is that any highly mobile force traditionally is able to get in, do its damage fast, and get out before the more cumbersome enemy can drown them in their own units. We know that the TEC are meant to be this cumbersome "hammer down" force, and the Vasari are meant to use mobility and finesse. But currently, the Vasari ships are balanced much more on their staying power (higher base hull hp/shields, earlier tech shield research, self repair) than their ability to destroy their targets more efficiently. So while they can get in as a mobile force, once in the grav well they lose much of their mobility and finesse.

Essentially, I am NOT proposing a change that would make smaller Vasari fleets be able to take down much larger TEC fleets. I am NOT proposing high survivability AND high damage output. I AM proposing a bit of a rebalance that would allow them to show more finesse by being able to achieve their objectives faster, but because their ships would be more brittle and fewer in number, they would not be able to stand up to a large TEC fleet. Essentially, guerrilla and hit and run tactics that have become synonymous with 'finesse'. The TEC player would then have to split up his defensive forces, and the Vasari player could then organize surgical strikes to take out some key defenses here and there, and thus always keep the sluggish TEC on its toes.
12,506 views 71 replies
Reply #51 Top
LOL!

its "by" by the way.

oh that struck me as too funny...
Reply #52 Top
oops LOL!
Reply #53 Top
bye the way
End of quote


It's 'by the way', by the way ;)

Edit: I am defeated :(
Reply #54 Top
why, *sniff* thank you so much Emp! its the best... uh... somethingorother present I've ever gotten! *hysterical happy crying*
End of quote


Yea I know, I'm a giver.
Now bow down before my feet and do my math homework!

I am defeated
End of quote


Thats what Schem said!
Reply #55 Top
 :LOL: 

even I found that funny.
Reply #56 Top
Yay!
I made schem laugh, without being stupid.

:O

Can it be that by release we will be the best of friends.
Only time will tell.

Tune in next time to ABCs hotest new drama, Siners... IN SPACE!!! :O :O :O
Next week we will have a guest appearance by eets.
Who will get raped? What horrible sexual innuedos will be acted upon?
TUNE IN AN SEE :O :O :O
Reply #57 Top
my pie charts will protect me!

and if all else fails I'll just make strawberry rhubarb pie, the stuffs like damned eet-antimatter...
Reply #58 Top
Shhhh!!!

I said next week!
Don't make me fire you!
Reply #59 Top
you want me to break the spoilers?
Will smith dies in the end!!!
*GASP*
Reply #60 Top
NOOO!!!!!

:(

*Donald Trump Accent*

Schem, You're fired!
Reply #61 Top
hahaha, you forget: I'm your boss!

*fires TGE*
Reply #62 Top
-_- everyone who plays Sins must be crazy (looks at Schod and TGE)
Reply #63 Top
yes pretty much.

although I have the current proud distinction of the only person with a full brain with which to call "crazy".
Reply #64 Top
i'm crazy and have a full brain. And an overgrown contrary gland. so there.
Reply #65 Top
hahaha, you forget: I'm your boss!

*fires TGE*
End of quote


Nuh uh!!!

I fired you first!  :p 
Reply #66 Top
I fired you out the forward railgun, theres a small difference there.
Reply #67 Top
This isn't off topic or anything...
Reply #69 Top
its since been almost completely agreed upon that the vasari are not like the TEC, this thread is dead as dead gets.
Reply #70 Top
This is even more true in the retail version. But yes, this thread is dead dead dead :P
Reply #71 Top
this thread brings up bad memories for just about everyone :P blair and myself especially.

I remember fighting off hoards of 15+ people, none of who had much experience with the vasari at the time, claiming the Vasari were TEC clones. then... piece by piece... the argument turned towards "they arent the same, but they arent what I expected, so change them" and then after that one by one people began to see the light.

ah, the dark ages of just-post release beta 4  :p  set us all back at least 200 collective IQ points.

needless to say, the devs werent too happy about their precious work being shredded... but people seem to appreciate the vasari much more now, so things have been rectified :)