Comparison of the lore with the game

from Sins Forums
As requested in the gameplay feedback thread, here is my take on the lore and what it says, contra what is in the game. I bring it in a separate post because it would clutter up the gameplay feedback thread with something that isn't really that much gameplay feedback, now that Yarlen has confirmed that there will not be any major changes there. I might have to edit for format as the forum refuses previews for some reason.

10000 years ago
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The Vasari Empire ruled over countless worlds. Relentless and unstoppable, the Dark Fleet sought to eclipse ever more until a cataclysmic error brought it all to an abrupt end. With their worlds destroyed and their species all but wiped out, the survivors began a desperate race to outrun their past.
End of quote

Okay, this tells me that Vasari are nomad aliens, few in number. The few in number fits well enough with their increased support point costs, good. But there are only a few weak traces of nomadism.

They have a ship called Evacuator, okay. But it doesn't really evacuate anything, it functions as its TEC equivalent ship, so the only nomadism involved is the name.

The special capital ship weapon sucking planetary resources shows that they do not care particularly about the worlds they come to, good. However, that special weapon does not actually affect the planetary resources as far as I can see, it merely reduces the health of the current colony. It should probably reduce the capabilities of the planet permanently.

In general, a further focus on mobility would be good. The phase gates could be a step in the right direction, but convey an idea of the hive (fair enough, being insects), and defending their holdings. As nomads, they should be more concerned with getting to new places quickly, not where they have been before. In fact, the space gates are completely at odds with the lore, because it would enable their nemesis to gain whatever head start they had, even quicker getting to all the worlds they now stay at. However, for the sake of keeping something that makes the Vasari unique, let's say that the nemesis has no way of detecting where the phase gates commune with and the Vasari can shut them down remotely at a moment's notice.

1000 years ago
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During the formation of the Trade Order, emissaries found a single world orbiting a giant red star on the periphery of what was to become Trader Space. The people of that desert planet were eventually found to be practicing the utmost in scientific and social deviancy; ancient taboos long since assumed to be law. Shocked and disgusted, the Trader Worlds conspired to have their forgotten brethren exiled far outside the territory they were claiming as their own.
End of quote

This is obviously only my take on what the lore says, since we haven't seen them yet. The Advent break with/exile from the rest of humanity. They are 1000 years distant from TEC in evolution, meaning very similar appearance. They are also 1000 years distant in scientific progress, which could make it way different, but similar brain function would make it likely they have many similarities, so I wouldn't necessarily expect a completely different technology. Their social views are highly at odds with those of the TEC. The lore does not say what exactly these different social views may be, but they would have to be completely different in order to provoke a permanent exile. I would expect the technology and special abilities of the Advent to be in tune with this.

10 years ago
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The Trader Worlds prospered in an era of lucrative trade and relative peace. Stories of their ancestor's wars had long since passed into the depths of the oldest archives; the methods and machines by which they conducted those affairs long since buried. Consequently, when the Vasari Exodus Fleet arrived, the outlying Trader Worlds paid dearly.

In a battle for survival, the Traders find a new impetus to rediscover the ways of their savage past.
End of quote

The TEC have focused on peaceful economy for nearly 1000 years, and need to scramble to transform their society and technology focus to gain back the huge advantage of the Vasari that is implied. They manage to do this. In fact, they manage to do so in a mere 10 years, as can clearly be seen by the performance of the early ships available to each race: they deal almost the same damage. The Vasari is merely a bit sturdier built. This rate of change is... quite unrealistic... and is one of my major disappointments of beta4.

Incidentally, the Vasari have got an entirely equal footing in economy matters during the 10 years. They accumulate wealth and resources at exactly the same rates as TEC, even though they have an entirely different social structure based on unwilling slave labour. Perhaps you can get away with saying that their superior technology in general offsets the unwillingness of their subjects, but then again TEC is the faction who has focused on economy matters lately, the nomad Vasari with their abundant slaves would hardly be as interested in this technology or have the mindset needed for efficient use of the resources.

The TEC have never met the Vasari before, or they would have known there was a terrible exodus coming. Therefore the two races should not be alike, at all. It is mind-boggling that after 10 years of contact, both races only have access to the scout and generic frigate at the start of the game (in addition to the capital ships), and THEN only start to develop differing technology.

Now
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The Exiled have returned; a transformed people calling themselves "The Advent". With a vast fleet of advanced warships and mysterious weapons, they bring a growing number of worlds under their control. The already struggling Trader Emergency Coalition finds itself caught in a two-front war that appears utterly hopeless.

The fate of the galaxy is at hand and one must rise to face the Sins of a Solar Empire.
End of quote

Oh, the Advent are transformed? It doesn't say how, so that leaves it suitably open for anything. Anything except something very similar to the TEC, that is. Which is what I expect, given the Vasari in Beta4.

===========

The ancient Vasari Empire once ruled over countless worlds. Beginning at the galactic core, the empire expanded uniformly, brought hundreds of alien races under its control, and showed no signs of slowing down.
End of quote

Okay.

Most species encountered were young enough to be subjugated peacefully, although, some resisted and were harshly enslaved. Those who had expanded into space were quickly exterminated. Once conquered, most species were integrated into the Vasari social structure as "valued citizens". The Vasari locked each planet down and ruled from vast orbital structures, finding a minimal surface presence more effective for both production and the minimization of rebellion.
End of quote

Vast orbital structures to control the planets? Moving from world to world during this exodus, I'd presume (like Perimeter's megacities)? Cool! But where are these in the game? The Vasari function exactly like the TEC, colonizing planets that they have bombed into radioactive hulks. There is no mobility of their populace.

When the first of the inner planets fell, analysts initially assumed that the local species had somehow managed to rebel. They immediately requested a wing of the Dark Fleet to restore order but no status reports were ever received. Instead, three more planets dropped from the communications grid. The probability of multiple, simultaneous, and successful rebellions was exceptionally remote. Internal Intelligence concluded that a renegade force from within the Vasari engineered a revolt. As deliberations proceeded on how best to deal with the traitorous acts, another series of planets were lost, including their world of origin. The unknown enemy’s rate of expansion far exceeded even that of the entire Dark Fleet. As a last resort, the Dark Fleet Veerr brought the bulk of their forces back from the expansionary frontier and massed for a blind assault on whatever was eating its way out from the central worlds.
End of quote

Okay, nemesis is currently invincible.

The inhabitants of a perimeter planet were surprised when a single warship of the Dark Fleet appeared out of Phase Space bearing signs of heavy damage. Their curiosity and confusion quickly gave way to fear when they boarded the ship and found the crew apparently mad with terror.

In a rare act of autonomy, the colony decided it would be best to take precautions and temporarily evacuate to a system far from the Empire.

The refugees waited for signs of a safe return but instead, the signal from their warning beacons ceased. The lifetimes of the warning beacons were used to estimate the speed of the threat. It would not be long before their current position would be compromised. Additional beacons were placed at their current location and the group moved on to a considerably further destination.
End of quote

Okay.

Settling for a time, the refugees started to build colonies, construct new ships, and extract resources. Ultimately, their goal was to uncover the nature of the threat, to research technologies that might aid in its destruction, and to restore the rule of the Empire.
End of quote

Maybe this is where they discarded their huge orbital structures for control.

For the next ten thousand years this pattern would repeat - the growing Vasari Exodus Fleet only ever a generation ahead of the relentless, unknown enemy.
End of quote

No wait, they've got this huge fleet that departs from its current world with their people, growing over 10000 years. Scratch that idea.

When the Vasari arrived in Trader Space ten years ago, they were confident in their ability to quickly deal with the locals. Initially, the victories were painless – the scouts alone procured the initial settlements – but as time went on it became clear that the local space-faring species would not be so easy to eliminate.

Now, the Vasari are caught in a stalemate, and in some positions, on the verge of being pushed back. A state of panic ensues. Already too entrenched in this disastrous war, the Vasari are simply unable to withdraw without catastrophic losses. Even worse, the conflict is consuming resources faster than can be put into the reserve. They will not be able to fuel the next phase of their exodus and time is running out.
End of quote

To repeat. In... ten years... the TEC have turned complete lack of military fleet and technology (Vasari scouts dominated it) into something rivalling the fleet and technology of the mighty exodus that has grown over 10000 years, constantly battling and requiring to perfect their military technology. Did I mention the Vasari fleet was huge?

The TEC lore (which I don't care to take to details) even says they didn't function for years, with disastrous lack of cohesion, and slowly learned to apply their perfection of the economic engine into the war machine. A couple of years is not a slow transformation. It's a miraculous transformation.

===========
So, how to fix this? Make it plausible that the TEC and Vasari have similar advancement at this point. Prolonged peace and trade could do that of course, but that would clash with the nomadism and urgency the Vasari now have due to the nemesis at their heels. Make up another story that does not involve the Vasari popping up in TEC space, from nowhere, only 10 years ago. Perhaps a secretive intermediary race, that have refused to divulge where it gets its technology from when passing it along so that TEC didn't know about the Vasari, or some such nonsense.

Well, I'm done. I see I write less and less on each point as I grow tired of it. Go ahead and rip it to pieces.
16,635 views 73 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Im still reading but I absolutely have to put this down first:

The Vasari are hardly insects, and there is no suggestion of any hive mentality- the look you are referring to is Most Definately aquatic invertebrate. For example the vasari missile frigate is easily recognized as an ancient earth trogladite (right name?)

Now thats not to say they don't have some insectile qualities being invertebrate derived, but most of their ships/style looks inspired by aquatic creatures. Rays, Sharks, Leeches etc.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Okay- my only other issue, is that your assumption about 'scouts' may be a bit off. Allot of people seem to be thinking that when this is said, that it refers to the basic scout unit, which is notably called a navigator. I think the term is used more loosely here and may refer to scout 'forces' or wings of the fleet... IE maybe 3 Frigates, or a lone Capital Marauder (it is a great scout ship after all)

Also the gates could be an old technology revived for use now that the Vasari have reluctantly been entrenched. With the multiplicity of TEC fleets it simply became neccessary for Vasari mobility.

On every other point I agree... especially the orbital colony/structure used to repress civilizations, there is no logical reason to abandon this method, it becomes even more appealing to a nomadic force.
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Unfortunately I'm at work so I can't take a long time to write up a big post, but the one point I'll address for now:

especially the orbital colony/structure used to repress civilizations, there is no logical reason to abandon this method, it becomes even more appealing to a nomadic force.
End of quote


The problem is, the Vasari are no longer expanding their empire and enslaving civilizations. They *tried* to quickly enslave the TEC when they arrived, and since now it's 10 years later and the TEC is still fighting them, obviously they have failed. At this point, the old ways of controlling subjects no longer work. The lore itself said most of the civilizations that were absorbed into their empire went willingly, and also that they were young and non-space faring (the space faring ones were destroyed to pose no threat). The TEC do not fit into this scheme, and logically the Vasari should no longer be trying to make them part of their empire. Civilizations to whom you are godlike are easy to inspire and control just by display of technology, thus "ruling" from orbit even made more sense than from the ground, sort of as a testament to their power.

it became clear that the local space-faring species would not be so easy to eliminate
End of quote


See, the Vasari are no longer trying to enslave the TEC, they're trying to eliminate them. That means destroying their planetary populations, and since they're bogged down in this war much longer than they expected, they need more permanent bases of their own, leading to the necessity to develop planets from the ground up.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Well despite the bombardment graphics the devs state that everyone just launches administrators to enslave the planets, so No the Vasari are not killing the populations en-masse.

and if they are not- why would they send people down to the planet where they could stroll the street corner and get mugged by say 10,000 TEC citizens per Vasari?

If they are planning on leaving why bother wasting resources building a house on a planet you are leaving in a few years? The orbital, detachable, mobile colony screams 'nomad friendly'.

Getting out of that to get frisky with the locals (or even just recolonize on top of their radioactive corpses) makes No sense for someone who needs to get the hell out of dodge.

Considering how things are going for the Vasari they should offer a peace treaty in exchange for the resources they want, and promise to leave TEC space. The TEC not knowing the Vasari want to leave anyone, would have to seriously consider this in the face of the Advent attack. The Vasari would get the last laugh as they left, as they know whatever is following them would surely destroy the TEC.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
PS: considering they are bogged down, why would they exterminate useful, pliant, TEC populations... then they would have to waste even more resources manning the resource collection themselves, where as the Vasari could offer relative self rule, so long as those people keep mining ore for them...

its not like the Vasari are really all that mean, by the sounds of it they dont take much pleasure/desire to whip and beat up slavelings... they are certainly not the Drengin lol
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Pirates. TEC wouldn't start out completely devoid of defensive and offensive weaponry any more than europe wouldn't have guns because they aren't at war. They don't have much of a military, and they'd get reamed in a conflict, but they still have police. Just because a civilization exists in a peaceful state and isn't in an interstellar war doesn't make them devoid of offensive and defensive weaponry systems, they exiled the advent, which would obviously have taken a military effort, and they protected that massive trade empire against piracy. Technology doesn't take that long to create either. Computers have gone from completely worthless punch card operated crap to amazingly powerful machines capable of storing everything everyone has ever known on something the size of your finger. In the last century, war progressed from horse and cannon to armored tanks, fighter jets and mobile rocket launchers inside 30 years, never mind the nuclear bomb that could wipe out entire cities in one stroke where sieges a few years before could take months if not years.

For the Vasari. "The Vasari Empire ruled over countless worlds." Everyone seems to be ignoring this bit in the lore. After you've done something for millenia, there's going to be some knowledge somewhere. You can read up on how to make fire with two sticks, craft stone tools, build efficient temporary shelter and fix dried feed for you and your horse on a cross country hunting circuit. They wouldn't magically forget how to mine resources, and they sure as hell wouldn't forget everything they ever knew about running a major galactic empire in the past. They have computers, unless they are blithering retards, they have libraries of information all over the place. That they aren't better empire runners than TEC(and they are vastly inferior at the later techs with the exception of phase gates) speaks to just how long it's been since they actively utilized all that vast knowledge they had. They suck at trade, something else that's been completely missed. Equivilent trade ship income yes, but inferior refinery ships because the trade increasing techs are trade ship only instead of for both. They have far inferior planetary upgrades, lower population caps on terran and desert, only surpassing on volcanic, 8 less logistics slots after tech 9. Their development starts slow and become far slower, cost is the same but gets worse over time, ships at least catch up in the price ranges. They are also culturally inferior, no critical mass counterpart.

Is it perfectly reasonable? Perhaps not, does it need to be though? Just how unreasonable is it that they've managed to copy a small quantity of the vasari technology and utilize their own more efficiently? How unlikely is it that two races would invent the same thing to start with? Building methods in the americas and the old world were very similar thousands of years after separation. Guns were invented in china long before they were invented again in europe after the knowledge was forgotten by the chinese. There was at least a three way race to nuclear weapons in WW2, the germans were after it, the japanese might have beaten the US to them without an intercepted shipment of fissionable material. Technological progress is not so cut and dry, it's never completely different even in radically different civilizations.

There are valid complaints, but people are being anal. Really, really anal.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Well despite the bombardment graphics the devs state that everyone just launches administrators to enslave the planets, so No the Vasari are not killing the populations en-masse.
End of quote


What does the planet sucker do then? It's mass destruction on a planetary scale.

If they are planning on leaving why bother wasting resources building a house on a planet you are leaving in a few years? The orbital, detachable, mobile colony screams 'nomad friendly'.

Getting out of that to get frisky with the locals (or even just recolonize on top of their radioactive corpses) makes No sense for someone who needs to get the hell out of dodge.
End of quote


But they're not planning on leaving, that's the thing. They're here stuck in a war that is taking much longer than they originally thought. They need bases of operations, they need shipyards to build new ships, and they need the infrastructure to support it.. such infrastructure can only be provided by planetary colonies, not military fleets.

Considering how things are going for the Vasari they should offer a peace treaty in exchange for the resources they want, and promise to leave TEC space. The TEC not knowing the Vasari want to leave anyone, would have to seriously consider this in the face of the Advent attack. The Vasari would get the last laugh as they left, as they know whatever is following them would surely destroy the TEC.
End of quote


Perhaps, but if the Vasari used to lord over numerous civilizations, perhaps it is their pride and feel of superiority that is preventing them from settling on a peaceful resolution. Perhaps they feel anyone who refuses to bow to them must be eliminated or they will pose a threat later. Perhaps, even though they're still 'running' from the old menace, they still cling to the old ideals and theology of their empire.. that everyone who is advanced enough to pose a threat needs to be eliminated.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Heh, so many posts while I wrote my my textbook...
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
'Tis the nature of writing walls of text
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
How unlikely is it that two races would invent the same thing to start with?
End of quote


Not unlikely. But it's just not that likely that the TEC manages to achieve (even with gratious copying from the Vasari) the same level that the Vasari has achieved after 10'000 years.



---------------------------

Btw. all this talk about lore lead me to one idea. I really would like a new victory option for the Vasari. Something which is pretty common in 4X games. A resource victory.

After all the Vasari are only staying to amass enough resources to fuel the next step in their exodus. So it would fit perfectly with the lore.

And for the TEC (and probably for the Advent) we could have a %of the map victory condition. After all they only want to protect resp. to dominate that region of space.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
your making poor excuses, I got not problem with how the game is played, but your reasoning is kind of faulty.

They may be stuck but they dont Want to be stuck and they certainly Want to leave as soon as the reserves are full enough.

So why on earth would they waste material on planets they will end up leaving.

The planet sucker apparently kills administrators because of the Dev's ridiculous concept of colonization, complain to them?

There is nothing in any of the lore or game to suggest for a moment that the Vasari are exterminating human life on that scale. IN addition why would they build culture centers then? How would you convince people to walk into those Vasari death camps! Considering the Devs wishy washy desire to avoid the question of atomic bombardment of civilians, do you really think they intend for you to believe the Vasari are exterminating human beings by the billions?

If anything there pride as enslavers would make the TEC a challenge and they would attempt to enslave them anyways as the ultimate bragging rights... more importantly it would simply cost too much investment resources to build up worlds from near-scratch when you are trying to leave!

They may be stuck, but the way you are describing it, it might be because they are wasting resources living on those god awful planets, wasting time and money exterminating humans which will die anyways when whatever chasing the Vasari catches up.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
same level that the Vasari has achieved after 10'000 years
End of quote


Well, presumably since they've been on the run for most of those 10,000 years they really haven't made any breakthroughs since, and since we don't have much of a story from before then, it's not unreasonable to think that perhaps that was just the beginning of their technological evolution that they were forced to abandon. In that sense, they would be an old race that developed technologies before many others (but remember, there's always a bigger fish), but not necessarily that they've been perfecting them and continuing advancement for the 10,000 years until now

So far though, the thread illustrates the point I tried to make The lore is so vague that there are multiple feasible explanations for why things are. For every line of reasoning for why something shouldn't be, there's an equally valid line of reasoning for why it should.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
your making poor excuses
End of quote


Let's not get personal in this thread though, starts slow and spins out of control

They may be stuck but they dont Want to be stuck and they certainly Want to leave as soon as the reserves are full enough.
End of quote


Yes, but what the lore says is they *can't* do that until they defeat the TEC:

Now, the Vasari are caught in a stalemate, and in some positions, on the verge of being pushed back. A state of panic ensues. Already too entrenched in this disastrous war, the Vasari are simply unable to withdraw without catastrophic losses. Even worse, the conflict is consuming resources faster than can be put into the reserve. They will not be able to fuel the next phase of their exodus and time is running out
End of quote


Basically, they *have* to defeat the TEC before they can move again, anything else is not an option.

So why on earth would they waste material on planets they will end up leaving.
End of quote


They are bogged down in a war, they need a military and they need resources. They can't replenish either unless they invest in a civilian infrastructure to support their military and their economy. I hate drawing from real world examples, but why do you think the US has military bases in multiple countries where we're not planning on staying? The infrastructure is necessary.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
if you're putting so much stake in the lore, tell me why you cannot see it for anything other than the one dimensional take that has been so popular?

I'll let you know, its because everyone has this rediculous prototype that is being desperately clung to.

Blair has already described every element of the Lore and why it fits, this point is extremely moot.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Blair has already described every element of the Lore and why it fits, this point is extremely moot.
End of quote


The reason I asked Bovi to post his thoughts was to show that any piece of 'lore' that's not broken down into the tiniest details is wide open to personal interpretation, which leads people to imagine things that can fit into the lore for them, and other people can imagine different things that fit just as well.

Nobody has really listed out all the personal expectations that haven't been met in comparison with their interpretation of the provided lore, so I thought this would be a good opportunity to show just that: for us, it's just interpretation. Only the folks who wrote the tidbits know what they had in mind.

To that end, the thread is serving its purpose and while debating the points in lore is pretty pointless, the message from the thread (for anyone who wishes to look at it objectively) is far from moot
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Yes, infrastructure is neccessary thats my point, your explanation has them first destroying an infrastructure - then replacing it.

IE the massive TEC populations that could be enslaved for production. Why would enslavers suddenly turn into exterminators. The term eliminate does not neccessarily mean 'genocide' though I certainly see the point.

The problem is your conclusions are contrary to your own reasoning. Being bogged down in a way means they would be EVEN MORE wary of wasting resources on rebuilding a taxable work slave population, - those resources and the Vasari population could be manning and building ships, shipyards, and such.

The lore never states that they can't leave until the TEC is defeated, only that they can't leave until they have acquired enough reserves, conquering the TEC in their eyes is the only way to do that, but nothing says they have to conquer ALL of the TEC, or dominate it forever, or that the TEC is geographically in the way of their exodus, just that they need X ammount of resources and that they haven't been able to reach that goal yet.

The lore states that they are in a panic too. Which to me suggests that they may very well try to abandon some of their own people, to conserve fuel so that say 'half' of them can indeed escape. The point is Nothing points to them settling down and raising families quickly enough to replace the TEC worlds they took in a matter of ten years.

Its not like they were bogged down on day 1, they were bogged down say, at year 5 or 8, they would only be considering such a complete turn around to their exodus lifestyle (im reffering to settleing planets) in the past 2-5 years... and considering the enemy they fear behind them that is essentially suicide.

I don't think they suicidal. do you? They are enslaving the populace and building on that infrastructure that exists.

Considering all this effeciency would be best, so why would they destroy the ships they were living on during the exodus and convert them into cities on planets? That would cost resources, and then they would have to rebuild the same ships to leave!

You need to face that at the least the Vasari are not exterminating the populations, it just doesn't mesh with the culture mechanism of the game, the vasari lore, and the devs have said repeatedly that the nuking of planets is only to blow up military installations and important leadership sites.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
To that end, the thread is serving its purpose and while debating the points in lore is pretty pointless, the message from the thread (for anyone who wishes to look at it objectively) is far from moot
End of quote

then it should be named something far less provocative, like "lore discussion" rather than something that we all know screams "what the Dev's fucked up with the lore". its just simply not right to attack the story "in relation to the game" when it all perfectly fits.

now, if the point was to actuall debate and not berate, then the name should be different.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Schod we aren't really talking about the game play all that much right now...


Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
which is largely irrelevant, people are still discussing how they see things as mussed up.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Schod we aren't really talking about the game play all that much right now...

Oh my god there you go swearing and saying we are attacking people....

did yarlen telling you to be less insulting do nothing? Your far more provocative and screaming than anything just about anyone else has been saying.

Nothing I've said in this thread even goes against the the game 'per-se' just Annatar's perception/opinion of the lore.

And while hes right you can certainly interpret anything to death, its just plain fun to discuss it. At least I WAS having fun until you showed up all puffed up.

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
which is largely irrelevant, people are still discussing how they see things as mussed up.
End of quote


Freedom of Speech must be a rare commodity in Schod world.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
then it should be named something far less provocative, like "lore discussion" rather than something that we all know screams "what the Dev's fucked up with the lore". its just simply not right to attack the story "in relation to the game" when it all perfectly fits.

now, if the point was to actuall debate and not berate, then the name should be different.
End of quote


I didn't create the thread, though Bovi mentioned how he thought the presentation was different from the expectation in the lore, and he offered to list the differences he saw, so I asked him to. He didn't go into technical details of how it was implemented (like that the huge nukes supposedly only damage infrastructure, or what have you).

Still, it was inevitable for it to get away from lore to gameplay mechanics
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
I'm just saying, if people are so angry with how defensive I get, they really should not be throwing stones.
Oh my god there you go swearing and saying we are attacking people....
End of quote

and how is that? all I'VE said was that the name should be changed, as of current its like throwing sand in someone's eyes.
I havent once sweared with respect to any party present.

I'm not going to even bother quoting the rest of your post as its obviously a GROSS overreaction to a small comment I made about its name.

as for the lore? I grant that its definately vague and definately up to interpretation. thats fine, for that fact I like that about it (and even some of bovi's interpretation). what I find irritating is that people take their own interpretations as law and then proceed to attack the game when the two arent compatable.
Still, it was inevitable for it to get away from lore to gameplay mechanics
End of quote

it really isnt, in fact its best left seperate. unfortunately that path has already been traveled down.
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
I also want to point out that the load screen in Beta4 for the Vasari mentions that the TEC have "No central orginization or military technology"

This wasn't something written a year ago, it was something given to us within the past month.

Vasari shouldn't be using trade ships at all, it makes zero sense with anything that's been written about them.

And I would think that if I were the Vasari on the run from an unknown enemy, I would likely apply a "scorched earth" policy and destroy everything prior to departure to keep their predator from utilizing any of the resources that could have been left behind.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe we haven't seen all of the lore yet? All we are going by now is a BRIEF background writeup on a web page. There may be some things we haven't seen yet that will explain this whole situation much better.

I'm not trying to be rude, but this whole mess of topics about the Vasari not being uber, and not living up to the lore is getting very old, and beaten to death. The dev's are well aware of what people think about the Vasari.