Influence sux - RANT

Or how I lost my last two worlds in about 10 minutes...

http://www.gamessecond.com
from Sins Forums
Hi All,

I had to rant. I was playing my first game with the vasari in a three v three and I became the guy who got attacked first by the other three players. It's ok, I fought well, they fought better and soon my three planet empire was down to two. No problem. I had a linar empire (home world)-(asteroid one)-(asteroid two). So I decided to make a stand at asteroid one when asteroid two fell. I had a good economy going so I built my fleet back stronger adn better than before, nearly doubled it in fact! Now as I was churning out my second cap ship I noticed a thing blue line emanating from my former colony on asteroid two. No problem, my allies were preparing a nice housewarming for the new inhabitants of asteroid two.

Together we jumped in. My allies from the side and my fleet from the front. Glorious! My historians were already writing the history of the retaking of asteroid two when.. wtf? Asteroid one flips and joins the enemy! Keep in mind we are bombarding asteroid two which is emitting this influence crap. Bombarding! Sieging!

Ok ok, now my allies are a little worried but give some good advice. Nuke asteroid one and asteroid two and recolonize. My defenses are still in place so I'll be ok. Oh, wait, less than 3 minutes, maybe 4, after asteroid one flips my HOMEWORLD flips. Game over, I loose. WTF. Fix this now. In fact, fix it yesterday. It is a minor annoance that asteroid one flipped, I get it, asteroid mining colony one jump away from the homeworld, middle of a war, being exposed to enemy propaganda. No matter that it is the fracking front line. I'll deal with that switch b/c they had propaganda and I didn't. But my HOMEWORLD? For crying out loud giving up when we are winning the war? That's redonkulous. yes. I said redonkulous.

The So What of my argument:
There needs to be passive counters/resistances to influence. These should be tied to #of capital ships in the system, # of defensive platforms in the system, also planets being bombarded (even if they have propaganda stations or whatever, should not be permitted to increase their propaganda during that time, or it should be reduced. Logically if the citizens of the home world, not mention that of asteroid one (the bastion of defense),were to give up and switch sides they would probably NOT DO IT after 1) Their brothers and sisters on Asteroid Two were nuked to death. 2) The rebuilt fleet (x2 of our first fleet) is 3) nuking the be-jebus out of the murdering theives who colonized asteroid two (and ate the babies of the previous colonists, yes, we vasari do that even to fellow vasari).

Ok rant is over. Just... ugh. Stop with the rampant influence crap. It took the "glorious comeback" out of my game. k.

-JimiSlew
4,328 views 21 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I also have problems dealing with the fact that unless you have radio stations of your own to counter you may aswell surrender.
I don't like the fact that even after you bombard a planet into oblivion - no population left - the planet still refuses to let you colonise if under the influence of enemy radio stations. I mean what are my colonists, zombies, getting transed as they land listening to enemy radio stations.
I love the idea of cultural influence and the system is fun to use, but I think their should be a limit to the range of the transmitters too, radio signal disperse and become harder to read the further they travel, correct me if I am wrong hear, I am probably talking about light spectrums. Why can I capture 10 planets in a row just with a radio station.Is this symbolic perhaps of the training of some super secret infiltration group, that travels from planet to planet converting Billions?
I think:
a) radio station influence should be limited to 2planets past its origin in any direction
b) radio stations should no longer influence planets where a strong military presence is associated. Capital ships with counter intelligence such as the support capitals?
c) radio stations should not affect planets that have been bombarded to dust.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
The influence does decrease greatly over distance, so much that there really isn't much of an effect more than 2 jumps away. Also, capital ships do reduce the spread of enemy culture, it says so right on the infocard.
Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Like stratteggi said, the affects of culture drop over distance and capitalships reduce the spread. I usually take a scout force with timed explosives to take out his culture centers if I figure it will take me too long to counter his culture. It also pays off to check early what strategy he is going for and is probably one of the most important uses of probe. Also note that the way culture works is changing slightly. You will be able to determine that someone is pushing heavy culture earlier than when you are under threat of losing a planet to it. Finally, bewarned: the Advent are very powerful at culture especially with their PsiTech upgrades.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
wow. i wonder if my capital ships would be able to upgrade from anti psitech manipulations. else my capitalship might be cultured out and turn against me?
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I don't like the fact that even after you bombard a planet into oblivion - no population left - the planet still refuses to let you colonise if under the influence of enemy radio stations. I mean what are my colonists, zombies, getting transed as they land listening to enemy radio stations.
End of quote


Just an FYI, but the current "rationalization" is that orbital bombardment isn't targeted at the population as a whole, but the administration. There is still plenty of populace "on the ground", just disorganized and useless.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
im cool with how culture works so far except the fact that it can take over your capital planet. I think this is wrong because my enemy was able to win the game with out a fight. I dont mind my other planets being taken over because I could then rally and take them back which is what i was going to due then all of a sudden my homeplanet gets taken over and thats it no fleet battles or tactics... Some may not agree with me but yeah I dont like that.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I don't mind the current culture system (even taking over the cap planet). Its pretty easy to counter (just build a broadcast center and most likely your planet will be fine...or at the very least fine enough to blow the enemies broadcast centers up). I have no problem with a strategy thats wins you the game if your enemy doesn't take basic precautions. Forgive me for not feeling sympathy for those who have lost to culture.   
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I usually have broadcast centers researched by the time i see enemy culture start to spread. In the AI's case it becomes a quest to knock out his BC's, because the AI likes to build a bunch of them all at one place.

Like what was said usually building a few BC's of your own counters enemy culture.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
I just finished a 5 star game vs AI and did notice that the spread slows after the first few planets. I also like the fact that at least vs the AI, it speeds the game up towards the end.
I have a problem with the concept of Radio\media being so damned influential.
Does anyone think Hollywood has converted China or Russia\korea? I don't think many people listen to propaganda\talkback ... its not too fun for most.
Besides how popular would you be if you tuned into another country\empires radio. Its not like trade relations are established and have a chance to influence either in most cases!! And the fact that the radio stations are prime military targets, war winners is just silly!!
Perhaps I just have not read enough yet to understand the abstract.

I would rather go for a good diplomacy system, gunboat diplomacy, where you may parly with the planet head honcho when all is lost or apparently lost for them. The friendly culture factor and an honor/reputation factor would determine if they were likely to turn when faced with unbeatable odds.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Culture is not just propaganda. Look at America, we love some Japanese items, games, etc, etc... German beers, german cars, things of that nature. China has Mcdonalds now. That's how culture spreads also. So the other planets may find life more enjoyable, or way of life nicer. Etc, etc... too tired to write correctly.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
No country with a McDonalds has ever attacked the US. They haven't become 52nd states(Canada is the 51st of course), but there's at least some similarity.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
I can just see the big signs on Vasari worlds "Coming soon...Walmart"
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

I
Does anyone think Hollywood has converted China or Russia\korea? I don't think many people listen to propaganda\talkback ... its not too fun for most.
End of quote


Really now... One of the greatest concerns is Westerns Media and Advertisement. They now have to fight with FAT Chinese kids living of McDonald. So yes.. the influence is there.

back to the game...

The influence system in the game is fine. Just need to know how to counter although I like the fact that you cannot immediately colonize a system you took over and build plenty of turrets. You need to wait for the culture to loose it's influence giving your opponent a decent chance to regain lost territory.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
You kind of have to wonder if these huge corporations are really "American" anymore though. They are moving overseas to cheaper manufacturing sites, cheaper administrative sites and tax havens. Yes, many do business here within the United States, and maybe they started here, that doesn't mean that they are keyed into American interests anymore than Chinese or Russian interests...the same would probably hold true in any interspecies conflict, neutrality would probably be key to trade on worlds within both factions.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
I can't wait for the Advent, I love culture
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I like my Japanese electronics and Chinese clothes, but that doesn't make me want to give up my guns and become Canadian, or give up my courage and become French.

Maybe culture should effect your economy more and loyalty less?
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
hmm.. yes... that could actually be awesome. Take some of his tax away and give it to you. as well as money he recieves from trade or whatever.

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
I kinda like the present culture system. It does add another layer to the game.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks for the comments folks. I appreciate them, even if I disagree with some. I was ignorant that cap ships reduce influence. I mean, sure, I had two cap ships and they still converted my colony and cap planet but I suppose they just had that much influence coming down the pipe line.

I'll be more prepared next time for influence. I agree with the above poster who said your cap world should be influence free. Also, when you colonize you should get some kind of anti-influence timer, maybe 5 minutes, or at least a default value of 100% or more to influence to start.

-JimiSlew