Yeap , all problems link and connect. One connected problem is the fleetpoint system being the bottleneck that dictates the size of your fleet. Why attack resources and split to attack resources if it doesnt effect his fleet because his fleet is bottlenecked by fleetpoints anyway.

I say let resources dictate the size of fleets. If you kill extractors or even tradeships I want to know that because I did that , it would indirectly effect the size of the enemies fleets.

If I know this to be true , I have the opportunity to split my fleet, hit resources simulatnously and indirectly hurt his fleet strength that way. And then maybe I can start conquering planets.

My 2c on wish making I haven’t had too much MP experience with the game yet, mostly SP so those are just my thoughts so far.

1. Suggestion on system defenses. Leave only inner ring available for structure placement. Then add "area of control" that would allow to place buildings around it to some structure (the repair thingie comes to mind + asteroids with built mines) and allow that structure to be placed anywhere in the gravity well.

What this will give us - ability to put cannons at the warp in zone thus making them more useful, while not boosting them to be uber (if the building with control zone(same goes for the planet) is destroyed all defense building would either get -50% efficiency due to loss of coordinated control or just go offline.

Or make those cannons\missile defenses deployable\movable objects, i.e. system patrol craft with no Phase Jump engines.

2. Capital Ships - I’m all for there being more of them in play, boosting their HP and giving them passive bonuses for smaller ships in their fleet\system is the way to go. For ex. Carrier`s passive ability would give 30% boost not only to his fighters but to all in the system. The Battleship would say give 30% boost to all flack frigates vs. fighters and the Anti-planet ship would give appropriate Boom bonus. This would encourage ppl to use cap ships in conjunction with appropriate small stuff.

In any case there should be a free choice and not I-win button, whether u want to use mainly capitals with small number of escorts or blobs of escorts with no capitals (pointing to shield mitigation numbers in general vs. large numbers and specifically for cap ships). 1 L1 Cap ship should be able to kill 40-points worth of frigates with 50% probability w/o using any specials, but at the same time 16 level 1 capitals should be able to survive 640-points of frigates with the same 50% probability w/o losing more than 6-8 ships. I`m all for having lvl 9 caps being 9 times as tough as lvl 1 , but its probably just me


3. Amount of fighters in the groups seems fine as it is. How often do you zoom completely in during the battle to view them zipping around anyway ? They are bit too small to see them even with medium zooming. I personally, 90% of the time just see icons moving around. Only in the beginning when u have small force engagements and don’t have to worry about too much things u get the time to enjoy close view of the pew pew bzzz boooom stuff.

4. My personal preference for modules would be:
Phase Jump Inhibitors -lock system down for any jump-outs by un-allied forces until it is destroyed.

Planetary Shields - no killing ur ppl until you blow the module.

Phase Gate with Armada Tech - just kill it all together, make tech give you 1 time fleet detachment on completion, say 2 random capitals + 120 points of frigates, but certainly nothing like it is now.

Culture buildings - take away stacking bonus, i.e. only 1 building per system is effective, 100% - 1 jump away and 50% effective at 2 jumps away. This will mean that if you want to culture flip neighboring system build Culture building here and then go kill his Culture building in the target system (if he has one). No more flipping 3 jumps away just because u built 5 in ur system. You want planet 2 jumps away ? go conquer system next to his, not more sitting with ur fleet on top of Culture buildings and waiting to planets to fall into ur hands. What if you can’t build anything in the system next to his ? i.e. Gas planet or such... well though luck bring ur fleet and do it the old fashion way. I think at the moment culture take over is way overpowered.

Refinery - i think moving it to the 2nd lvl next to the trade center would liven the beginning of the game with it recourse boost.

5. A good Guard and Patrol commands would be welcomed, i.e. setting ur Flack frigates to guard capitals and not wonder away, as well as letting ur fleet in solar system patrol few jump zones. AI evading static defenses until he cleared every other threat, calculating whether it would be worth to kill a constructor before it finishes a defensive structure, deciding whether its pirate raiders can plot course and slip past defenses and kill mining\economy\production building or planet itself unmolested would be great.


PS. Btw why ppl compare gameplay to HW when this is a Hegemonia with new FX ? Wish you could add current engine to Moo3 or SE5 but alas.. oh well its not a bad game at it is, needs more 4X though

Why fix what isn't broken?

Put your PJI and some repair centers in a clump, ring them with turrets... in order to progress, the enemy has to kill the PJI, which either pulls them in range of the turrets, or forces them to sit back and peck at them.

Way to nerf it -- just fix the negative fleet point bug instead, don't turn a useable tech into something thats overpowered on smaller maps, and useless on larger maps or longer games!



Again, why fix whats not broken? 1 culture center will (usually) prevent any flipping from occurring, and with the exception of dead asteroids you can build that on pretty much any colonizable body anyways. And your "fix" removes one of the few "non-military" approaches in the game, not to mention removing any possibility of projecting culture across interstellar distances!



Tell unit A to move to unit B... it follows the unit intelligently, guarding it and supporting it -- AKA your asked for guard command. Instead of having your ships patrol through multiple grav wells, and usually be in the wrong place, try finding a nice nodal spot, sitting them there, and leave scouts in the other systems...

Put your PJI and some repair centers in a clump....


Its not just about fixing , its about expanding and adding new options. If you want you can create strong points with pji (which wont stop enemy from blasting your planet into nothing unmolested), my sugestion just adds to the options. If you make defences mobile you can relocate ur strong point and defendthe planet. If you add "area or control" you can build ur strong point at the critical locations where the canon be passed-by (ie warp-in zones).


Way to nerf it...

Yes, when negative points bug is fixed it`ll be more manageble tech, but as i`ve said i`m posting my opinion. Getting ships for free is a bad idea, i would much rather see tech that increases available fleet point.

1 culture center will (usually)....

Proposed changes wouldnt remove culture fliping and as you put it "non-military" approach. You just wouldnt be able to get planets from your enemy for free. As for interstellar distances ... well you`ll jsut have to go and colonize a system in different solar system to start spreading your culture there, is it so difficult and game breaking ?

C`mon the whole notion that you can take over bunch of planets from your enemy just by building 4-5 culture centers is rediculus. This is not a 4X game with full blown nations\diplomacy\spy system, if you look closer, at the top of the site is sais "Epic RTS". There are no real neutrals\allies empires, only enemies you have to kill and temp allies who will have to wait their turn. This game is about fleet warfare. Does Culture adds a nice flavor and additional threat you have to counter ? Yes, and its great. But currently it is overpowered.


Tell unit A to move to unit B... it follows the unit intelligently...

Must have missed it , at least when i play ships just tend to do what they want and kill stuff they prefer if i do no micro everything. I meant guard command what would last until another is given, even if i send ships to the other side of the galaxy, currently i did no see it.

As for "patrol through multiple grav wells", you miss-understood me. I didnt mean patrol through many jumps, i said "jump zones" meaning areas where enemy ships appear after jumping in the system. Or have you never had a time when enemy fleets jump to your sun from diferent directions and you fleet stationed there just crawls from one side of a jump well to another never getting to needed point in time ? Hold position doesnt work too well there since they usualy dont end up in the same exact place and i also want my fleet to chase them.

Given that without any way to push back enemy culture, you don't have any way to colonize.

Then why not say that in the first place?



Once you do that, they'll stay with that ship until you give them another order. (You may need to set them to hold position to make them stay right with it, I don't use that often...)



So what the heck is it that your asking for?

If you set your node right on top of the planet, you can generally spare a few points for extra turrets, or place a few hangars down to control the entire grav well. And, again, defenses are a way to delay or inconvienience the enemy, not actually wipe him out for you.

That said, why not stick with things that can actually happen at this point in your advice?

Given that without any way to push back enemy culture....

You only have to blow enemy culture buidings in the system next to the one you want ,wait a bit and colonize all you want.


Then why not say that in the first place?...

I did say that i find current tech unbalanced. After that was just a random thought on a way to fix it, dont read too much into things.


So what the heck is it that your asking for?...

Is it that hard to understand a concept of a Patrol command ? Basicaly you take waypoints commands (as you can do now with the SHIFT+click) and allow them to loop indefinatly so ur fleet will continuosly move inside the grav well. Do i need to make it any clearer ?

defenses are a way to delay...

Care to point as to where my suggestions would make defences not a way to delay but an unstopable ship killing feature that destroy all enemy for you ?


why not stick with things that can actually happen....


1. Nothing in my points would require any new models or introduction of new units. Every change can be done by coding alone. They are not world-shaking changes too, just a relatively small balance change.

2. As for "actually happen" part ... devs didnt give us any indication that they want\will\ever would make any changes so you point is rather moot. Thus, as i`ve pointed out in my first post, i`m just giving my view on some game mechanics and what i think would be nice changes, that wont require major overhaul or new modeling.

That only works if he doesn't have culture spread from beyond the next planet, too. Culture is effective for several jumps, so you can very easily get caught in a web of intertwining influence spread. Very, very rarely is it as easy as "blow up the one planet, and the one next to it".

Yeah, thats a patrol command, but it does nothing to solve the problem you mentioned...



Putting turrets on top of jump points

not quite. if the distance is more than a few jumps, culture attack becomes almost hopeless. even an insane amount of culture centres won't push through one or two defensive ones.

You can't really do that Ron, and you know it.

Under his proposed system, it becomes possible. Avoidable by scouting, but possible.

Well its a stupid system then

It undermines what defenses are supposed to do, they are there to protect the planet not make an impassible node.

Thats what we have asteriods for.

Putting turrets on top of jump points...

You missed this bit of info for that proposed change then .. "(if the building with control zone(same goes for the planet) is destroyed all defense building would either get -50% efficiency due to loss of coordinated control or just go offline "

Meaning that while you can make sure that enemy is always engaged clustered cannons wont be uber. Nothing stopping you from flying by past their range too. Even w/o -50% penalty it wouldnt be unbreachable defence.

On the side note, i personaly dont have anything against very very fortified systems that would require your whole fleet to deal with.. as long as you can take another jump lane around and hit from behind. Using defence turrets on top of the jump node is a very logical decision that doesnt neseseraly becomes a game breaker. And if you are worried that someone will just put 15 canons on every system entrance, cannons points could be increased from 1 to 3 or 4.

but it does nothing to solve the problem you mentioned...

It would solve a need to micro a fleet in the solar grav-well every time an enemy fleet or 2 warps, at least for me. If i can get my fleet to patrol an arc of at least 90 degrees instead of sitting in place with Hold command or crawling all over when left unmanaged, i would be very very happy.


It undermines what defenses are supposed to do....

Defenses are supposed to defend what you tell them to. In particular you build them to protect\control your planet and surrounding space. Now whether you`ll decide to concentrate on not letting enemies hang around the planet or on not letting them get in-to your system unscathed should be your choice.


That only works if he doesn't ....

You missed the point, we are discussing how it would play out with the proposed changes not with the current mechanics. If there was only 1 building per system effective and only 1 jump away, you wouldnt have problems dealing with it.

If you make a defense right, you will either force the opponent to go backwards, or sideways. And trust me by the time the ships turn around or the capitals make their wide arch, lots of damage will be done.



First off, the defender already has an advantage over the attacker as it is right now. Plus, well fortefied stystems tend to be well fortefied and rarely be vulnrable to an attack from behind. Because defense are usually built in some for of a circular formation.



An improvement of Fleet AI is already promised, and it is wayyyy less comlicated and much better then just rigging defenses.

turn around or the capitals make their wide arch, lots of damage will be done...

Thats the point.

Will it be an unstoppable tactic that you can never overcome ? No. Will it hurt as hell if you just blindly charge into things without a care in the world ? Yes.
Will it make ur canons\missiles usefull against any enemy that jumps into your system, as opposed to just sitting in the back hoping they wont wayve at you while blasting ur planet from out of range ? Yes. Can the enemy come in the backdoor and still blast ur planet unopposed if you make a mistake of not caring about his fleet\preparing defencesat the wrong place ? Yes.

Its not about uber I-Win tactic, its about making choices available to the player. I`m still hoping its not ur standart RTS #4006672 with Sci-Fi scenario #45876 where all you have to do is build a base, build bunch of frigates and rush them off to roll over enemy blob.

First off, the defender already has an advantage over the attacker as it is right now...

Defender always have advantage over attacker, thats just a natural way of the things. Thats why there is research tree, to prevent stagnation. While someone spends money on building defences you build fleet and make it thougther through research. Then you go blow his defences or bypass them if your enemy made a mistake and roll over his understrenth fleet.


and rarely be vulnrable to an attack from behind. Because defense are usually built in some for of a circular formation...


You cant have all your forces on the opposite jump nodes at the same time, you cant even cover your planet by putting all your canons\missiles at the same point, you have to spread them over. Fixing AI for Flack frigates should take care of fighter bay spam.
Plus if you can hit someone from behind, it usualy means that you can bypass their fortified system and go bezerk on their other less defended areas.

In any case, ability to bypass systems, as well as opportunity to split your forces into raiding groups and not just have ur Great Armada of Doom tm. depends not on defense placements but on map generation script, which needs work anyway. The more star lines
the better. I think every planet\object inside the system should be jumpable from inside
the solar system, and only jumps between systems should be done from the sun`s grav-well only.

An improvement of Fleet AI is already promised, and it is wayyyy less comlicated and much better then just rigging defenses....

Umm.. you commenting to the wrong quote, patrol command in question has nothing to do with "rigging defense" , canon\missile placement or anything else. It`s just about patrol command.

Regardles, you logic, when saying that re-writing AI behaviour is "wayyyy less comlicated" that adding a loop command to already existing feature and placing a new icon .... well seems flawed.

there is absolutely no reason not to have a patrol command. Frankly its existed in virtually every RTS that was ever worth playing, even though in most it was not terribly useful.

I do believe Sup-Com is the only game I have ever found it to be absolutely NEEDED. But the fact that sins does not have it flies in the face of tradition.

Thats not to say we 'NEED' it, just that it is awfully odd that it doesn't already exist.

I actually had a thought like this a little while ago, which led to me thinking that some sort of 'farm' structure in a gravity well might be an interesting idea. This way you could hit and run these (very weak) structures to limit the enemy's fleetpoints. Whether these 'farm' structures would take up logistics points or not, or be build similar to how resource asteroids work (different for every planet maybe even?), is debatable. But I think the general idea is a good way to put a tangible and elastic (ie, easy for other players to affect) touch to the fleet size/point system.

I guess there are other ways to tie together grav well resources and fleet sizes, such as some kind of upkeep/maintenance system, but those can be pretty complicated to balance out compared to adding a sort of structure strictly for fleet points/size.

Whats the point? Seriously, I just haven't seen or heard of a situation where it'd be helpful!

Try to explain that to the "i quote in itallics" guy up there

I have. He just doesn't bother responding to it, instead just coming up with scenarios that (to him) would apparently make it useful. How, I don't know...

What a noob, I wonder if he's plyed online.

Hey ittalicy guy, have you played online?

I guess there are other ways to tie together grav well resources and fleet sizes..

The upkeep could be introduced, working in the same way as population taxes\range. Ie you build more stuff less income in resources you get. Not that i think devs would do anything drastic with less than 60 days left





I have. He just doesn't bother responding to it...

Why would i bother taking time to write and explain something more than 3 times ? If you lack reading and comprehention skills its up to your school to fix that, not me.


But, as a free advice let me give you example : "doesn't bother responding to it" and " coming up with scenarios" shouldnt be in the same sentance, since they contradict each other. Just as "that would apparently make it useful" and "haven't seen or heard of a situation where it'd be helpful". If there is something you didnt understand or concept of logic is foreigh to you, talk to your English teacher he`ll help.

FrostyAK, really, seriously, because many here on the forum are not English majors (or even native English speakers) you should EXPECT to find some of what you consider poor English, and really have no call for flaming about it. Much less insinuating illiteracy. Keep your arguments based on your logic, not grammatical fallacies. You detract from your own arguments when you descend to that level.

PS. Ron and TGE above when making the quoted statements made perfect sense to me, and even asked a valid question to which you have not responded. More logic please, less personal attacks.

Perhaps you should work on your logic a little more. You don't respond to my position or questions, you simply post scenarios without the information needed to turn them into an actual response. If the logic in that is too difficult for you, I suggest a long, long look at some philosophy or logic classes. Yes, its stretching the "proper" definition of those words, but the context makes my meaning perfectly clear. To paraphrase a TV show, "you have indeeded given a reply, but while all answers are replies, not all replies are answers. How does that feature help?"

Also, while simply pulling the sentences out of context makes the first two appear contradictory, the latter two aren't even close to doing so. the word [i]apparently, especially as applied with the "(to him)" that you chose to cut out and misquote me with, is all the sentence needs to match up with "[ I ] haven't seen or heard of a situation where it'd be helpful".

Edit: Oh, and btw: please do try to not deliberately misquote people (which is what you did!) it ticks some of us off, not to mention your oh-so-precious rules of language.

insinuating illiteracy...You detract from your own arguments when you descend to that level...

I`ll answer just for the hell of it. I wasnt insinuating illiteracy or grammatical fallacies (first time i hear of those), i was pointing out that their behaviour resembles that of a high school kid with an ADD and was suggesting a way their problem could be adressed ie. professional help , of an english teacher(its not about grammar or spelling if you wonder). Also there were no arguments in that reply to distract from, just pure picking on

As for PS i`ll send you to the Replies # 27,29,31 and 38 where i`ve touched on the topic of patrol comand and why i would find it useful. In particular you can start with "letting ur fleet in solar system patrol few jump zones". If i`ve misunderstood you, and you asked about another question then sry and plz tell me which one you were wondering about.