single player campaign and sandbox mode

There is no campaign but a great sandbox mode, much much more than a standard rts skirmish mode. It isn't as in depth as a turnbased strategy game like GC2 but quite extensive for a rts. It can be played in multiplayer.

so the sandbox mode comes with all the features of the multiplayer mode, except there are no story campiagin. In a future expansion, if Ironclad decide to release one, will there include a campagin. I think it is a great idea to have a well written engrossing cliff hangar generating campagin for sins, the game play potential is there and the backgroud story is epic already. Look what happens to starcraaft and command and conquer. Everyone were dying to know how both stories will ended.

I think most us agree Sins is pretty sweet as it is and when you see what we added since beta 4 you will love it even more. Even without a campaign I can promise that most of you will have a killer time playing it for a long time to come. We wouldn't release it if we didn't think it was worth playing.

But...

We love our story, we would love to share all the details and we already have plans in the making. 

When Sins started we felt that both RTS and 4X are extremely difficult mediums in which to explore a story properly and we haven't been all that fond of how its been done in the past (with a few notable exceptions). Check out this thread to see some of the arguements and analysis, its a decent summary of the problems with RTS campaigns. http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/archive/index.php?t-32530.html

If it was going to work we'd have to come up with some really creative and innovative ideas to get around these problems but we couldn't do this simultaneously to developing everything else new and innovative that Sins brings to gaming. Nonetheless, over the course of development we've got a pretty clear picture of where we want to go with it and it will be as fresh, innovative and creative as Sins 1 was. The major advantage now is we now have an incredible technology base, great tools and the core game mechanics are pretty solid. This will allow us to really focus most of our attention on the details of the campaign with no other messiness to get in the way.

Of course if our plans don't work out, and as I said in the another recent thread, the Sins story will be released in some form or another. You have my word. Even in the worst case where the master version of Sins gets deleted by mistake before going gold, I have to go back to working at McDonald's and I'm revealing the story in some obscure blog in the seediest recesses of the internet from my rat infested apartment on a 14.4k internet connection.

Well, it sounds to me that you're just playing to your strengths with the sandbox mode. Works for me.

But... I'm a bit confused on the above -- are you saying that Campaign/Story elements are largely being relegated to expansions/sequels ("as Sins 1")?

There is no campaign in the current version of Sins which I referred to there as Sins 1.

Oh, no, I got that, it just sounded like you were already planning some campaign-ish sorta thing for an expansion/sequel. Think I was just reading too much into it.

You weren't reading too much into it, that is what I was saying. A campaign in an expansion/sequel that will bring as much creativity and innovation to the story mode of games as this version did with everything else - and you still haven't seen everything we've done! It's pretty awesome

Wow wow wee wee waa

Such a tease.

only a few days to go only a few days to go only a gew days to go only a few days to go only a few days to go only a gew days to go only a few days to go only a few days to go only a gew days to go only a few days to go only a few days to go only a gew days to go

gnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I cant wait, send me my copy NOW

I think you really made the right move there. In a lore-heavy game such as Sins, a badly-done or rushed campaign is worse than no campaign at all. An expantion pack where the campaign is the main focus (hopefully with a few extras as well) will be truly epic.   

Photino, that's exactly what we think. We considered just linking up some maps but rejected it for that very reason.

*mails Blair a big jar of his favorite type of cookie*

Yet an evil part of me wishes that life upon you maybe for just a day... In remembrance of the ponies never making it into sins...

Ahhh rats, I was looking forward to story mode with this game. For some reason I prefer story mode for RTS. TBS games like GalCiv2 can largely do without it!

Hezuz

Sounds like an uber promise and i agree that actual story would be awesome next to all other genius and innovative things you already created...

In short i love the plan! (and cant wait)

Hopefully it wont turn into a blog delivered via 14k but Sins 2

when can we expect the first expansion???

one other thing, during diplomacy and trade, will we able to experience the different personalities for each of the 3 different races, since before the expansion, there is no campagin to play through.

If there's an expansion, it probably would be February 2009.

Well that kinda makes me sad...

I was really looking forward to a story mode. I know you guys have a bunch more to add to the sandbox but TBH I have nearly burnt out on it in short time. Don't get me wrong it is fun, but start a new game and it is the same... whats the point(especially after a really long game), whats the drive to do it all again? The only thing for that atm is multi player.

A simple video intro/ending per mission and linked (random generated) maps would provide atleast some drive and added replayability. I am not talking final fantasy quality cut scene, but even a old wing commander quality cutscenes would suffice. As long as you have a good story for it.


Fingers crossed you guys push the date back and come with a complete game not just a good MP game but single player too. I can wait a bit longer for a full game, hell we can already play what you got out now...not like we have nothing to do until then.

Sorry to be the prickly thorn in the side but what you explained sounded more like "Well.. We don't know what to do, so eff it".. I mean sure sandbox is ok.. Maybe if you give us little tiny side missions or something, but come on releasing a game with no story? Thats just half done, half baked, and then we'll have to wait to 2009? Heck I could write a single player campaign if you just have no idea where to take it..

And this Bull; http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/archive/index.php?t-32530.html

Is just a bunch of jerks who don't understand what they are talking about, most RTS's have plenty of little things you have to do in one mission, save this target, get so much of this, explore such and such, hell look at Hegemonia Legions of Iron, all sorts of little "Somethings happened over here! Check it out!" "A meteor's been spotted flying towards the sun, but it's a perfect chance to study one! Intercept and check it out!" all sorts of different parameters, and like I said with the back story you've written it wouldn't be hard to do a campaign with plot twists and such.. I dunno it looks like I am the only one here thinking giving us nothing but skirmish is a little weak..

But hey, Halo survived based virtually on nothing but it's Multiplayer, but that is a lot faster and easier than an RT 4x, so we'll see if it'll fly with the general audience.. I've already pre-ordered because me and my friend will probably, hopefully actually, play on Multi, he isn't sure about the game cause I told him bout the no single player.

I agree Valaska, They have a good game here hate for them to throw it away with it being unfinished.

They could go one further with story mode by having a single player story mode, as well as a multi player story mode. Not many games have that usualy you just play through the same single player game with more people.

Again the CG dosen't have to be of uber quality. Could be a visual of the galaxy in the background and a pop up (like metal gear solid) of the commander(and others) giving you background info or missions.

Then you can go big with sins 2! But for gods sake do something for sins 1!! Don't go with good enough...

wait, but for the single player sandbox mode, do we get to play as one of the three sides, and do each side come with unique technoglogies.

Isn't it good idea to try the game first and then comment on it...

I mean you guys might be right by all means - if its really boring, repetitive, and if after couple of hours all you are left with is MP then you are right...

However, why not wait for 20 or so days and try the final product and then complain!?!?

Just my 2 cents

Because they are still changing and re-working the game, if we wait to complain whats going to happen, we've wasted 56 dollars on a game which is boring long and repetitive with no real reason to play other than multiplayer, which gets old for some people and with the length of the matches anyways all you're going to be left with is a Skirmish mode, which every RTS and it's blind sided cousin has.

Whats the point of going "Oh that'll be perfect!" if we do that, no one at Iron Clad will hear our input on the situation, Story, Good, no story, Bad. And a 2009 release on just the missions? This game is going to be left under the tracks of Star Craft II if the train of thought here is "Well, we don't know how so we just won't do it, maybe the next Expansion or sequel" that's like Microsoft going "Well I know that this OS has a major security flaw, and we all know about it and with a little work and time we could fix it.. But hell, we'll release another one in a few years!"

Difference is they are popularized already and making tons of money, if this game, a new game in the series comes out with half a punch, all the other RTS's are going to one-two it, and this'll probably be the last we ever hear about it!

Personally I am interested, and I really want this game to succeed, but it aint gonna happen if we have to pay full price for Multiplayer, and not so multiplayer .