a quick analysis of Vasar mining techs

just data, I cant tell you how to play.

This will be a brief analysis of income based on mining techs, i.e. when it would be appropriate to use them

note: this analysis is superficial, not taking into account other accounts of growth or necessity, so what its worth to you I have no clue. but perhaps it will help in guiding what your initial growth strategy is before you settle into something more intuive


but first, some data:


1 2 3 4 5 6

1 0.025 0.05 0.075 0.1 0.125 0.15

2 0.05 0.1 0.15 0.2 0.25 0.3

3 0.075 0.15 0.225 0.3 0.375 0.45

4 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6

5 0.125 0.25 0.375 0.5 0.625 0.75

6 0.15 0.3 0.45 0.6 0.75 0.9

7 0.175 0.35 0.525 0.7 0.875 1.05

8 0.2 0.4 0.6 0.8 1 1.2

9 0.225 0.45 0.675 0.9 1.125 1.35

10 0.25 0.5 0.75 1 1.25 1.5

11 0.275 0.55 0.825 1.1 1.375 1.65

12 0.3 0.6 0.9 1.2 1.5 1.8

13 0.325 0.65 0.975 1.3 1.625 1.95

14 0.35 0.7 1.05 1.4 1.75 2.1

15 0.375 0.75 1.125 1.5 1.875 2.25

16 0.4 0.8 1.2 1.6 2 2.4

17 0.425 0.85 1.275 1.7 2.125 2.55

18 0.45 0.9 1.35 1.8 2.25 2.7

19 0.475 0.95 1.425 1.9 2.375 2.85

20 0.5 1 1.5 2 2.5 3

21 0.525 1.05 1.575 2.1 2.625 3.15

22 0.55 1.1 1.65 2.2 2.75 3.3

23 0.575 1.15 1.725 2.3 2.875 3.45

24 0.6 1.2 1.8 2.4 3 3.6

25 0.625 1.25 1.875 2.5 3.125 3.75




so there you go, unfortunately theres not much I can do about the inability of the forum to create tables. my computer has issues taking pictures, so if you really want the data you're going to have to sift through this junk.

or look at the pretty graph!



This data table is pure numbers in regards to income boosts, the top row is the tech level for vasari, the left column is the number of mines. all numbers below are the increases.


now, for the layperson:





this will also serve as aid for my delta income analysis.





so we begin:


BUT FIRST

all data here comes purely from script, such things as allegiance, refineries, and the black market are not analyzed. because I will be only analyzing differences between having the tech vs. not having it vs. delaying its purchase many of these things will be almost irrelevant.





Delta-I analysis

since its the most fundamental level of this survey, we will begin with understanding the differences between different levels of the technology. all levels increase income by .025 per second per asteroid (5%), I cannot be certain but I doubt the effects are compound (if they are they are quite negligable, in the order of tenths of a percent) so we're dealing with pure numbers.



to start we are going to do differences in income from one tech level to the next (we can have a simple difference factor because they differ linearly)

as you can see I've already labeled the graph with delta-I positions 1-5, a simple glance will show that the differences between tech levels are most closely: .125 u/s, .225 u/s, .25 u/s, .375 u/s, .5 u/s and .625 u/s at 5, 10, 15, 20 and 25 fully functioning resourcing opperations. all of these are marked increases in income speed.


so thats the running gambit for buying one level up at each tech level, you waste a few resources to gain them back with vast alacrity, only to recieve more later.


Early timing upgrade differences

next we shall run an integral over a function describing what a 15 minute gap means for someone who is running from 5-25 asteroids.



for this function we shall say that the income of a resource without resourcing upgrades is y(x)=.5(x(t)), x is another function with respect to time, which you can describe in any which way that you deem accurate (we'll go with a logistics curve of 20/(1+4e^(.0015t)) a calculator approximation of a slower buildup, maybe... I cant be very accurate here) where t is in seconds. since we're considering two situations in which the only difference is tech, the y(x) formula that we'll put through integration will be y(x)=.5*(T)x(t) where T is the tech constant (.05xtech level)



so for a level one a fifteen minute jump with only five asteroids is approx: 40 crystal, which is no life saver: but is worth an extra tech or so.



beyond that its just a matter of balance, when does it make sense to upgrade a level? when will the delta-income value exceed your recalcitrance due to cost?



*shrug* this is something you need to find out for yourself, there are simply too many ways to play this game for me to tell you anything about it. I simply know what works for me.
28,838 views 25 replies
Reply #1 Top
Did you take into account that the Vassari only have to upgrade one tech while the TEC have to upgrade 2?

The mining tech really don't until you have amassed large fields. If you have a minning bonus from exploration then it really starts to kick in!

Of course the this is good early game after you research the latter (level two techs for Vasari) it is strange to have the staggared resource requirements now. Esp when the requirements for crystal are so high!
Reply #2 Top
Did you take into account that the Vassari only have to upgrade one tech while the TEC have to upgrade 2?
End of quote

this is for pure over-easy all resources, the TEC analysis would be more complex and would require making a bunch of qualifications, frankly I dont have the energy for it :P
like I said, it is vasari only.
The mining tech really don't until you have amassed large fields. If you have a minning bonus from exploration then it really starts to kick in!
End of quote

as I see it the effect of the research increases almost in tandem with your need to make more resources, so buying it early means that you've given yourself an extra layer of economy that will help you as you expand into infinity.

I could have gone on a tangent about this, but frankly its more or less my experience and opinion, not my numbers.
Reply #3 Top
did anyone actually read that?
Reply #4 Top
yes, and I've gotten compliments for my lovely graph.

dont you like my graph eets?
Reply #5 Top
Schod-the-rod:
all levels increase income by .025 per second per asteroid (5%)
End of quote


.025 is 2.5% you idiot. Credits and materials are tallied twice per second.

Its .05 per second per asteroid.

Schod-the-rod:

(we'll go with a logistics curve of 20/(1+4e^(.0015t)) a calculator approximation of a slower buildup, maybe... I cant be very accurate here)
End of quote


LMFAO!

Here is the real data/analysis that Shod-the-rod here is *trying* to copy:
Reply #6 Top
*sigh* here working through your asinine and childish comments:
.025 is 2.5% you idiot. Credits and materials are tallied twice per second.

Its .05 per second per asteroid.
End of quote

its still .5 per second, just because it ticks twice doesnt mean anything.
Here is the real data/analysis that Shod-the-rod here is *trying* to copy:
End of quote

thats a bunch of numbers on a table, there is no analysis there except what everyone already knows. that isnt helpful. those who dont understand that 20x.5=10 probably wont understand any of my analytical jibberish anyway.

it also doesnt help that the table is almost completely illegible.
Reply #7 Top
Here is the Real resource tech analysis he is trying to take credit for. lol!

Schod, you're a little weasel, and everyone here knows it.
Reply #8 Top
*shrug* I wasnt happy with your analysis, it was data on a single point that completely ignored the actual economy. I critiqued it, you got upset and personal, I came here and made a more accurate and complete one.
now you've followed me to troll around here, very mature.
Reply #9 Top
I logged in just to share my amusement with you guys. The two of you are some sort of super tool, like a power tool, a swiss army knife and heavy machinery all rolled into one. These two threads are great.

First, Schod.("Schod-the-rod" eh? Pot, meet Kettle)

Look at your graph, a quick glance should suffice. Does that even remotely resemble the 30% increase you're supposedly showing? I get your point, you're even right. You're still a fucking dumbass though, get a grip on things ok? I really dislike feeling sorry for you.

Last, Micaletti, oh great and mighty pontificating dork. Aside from being anal about his poor grammar and spelling, you haven't done much besides do a really dumb chart yourself. Your numbers are accurate yes, at such and such number of mines it will take x length of time to pay it back. Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. If it takes you ten minutes to go from five mines to ten mines in a relatively smooth progression, you've made up half of your payback time. If you wait until achieving those ten mines and do so in the same manner, you're not maybe a minute behind, you're seven and a half minutes behind.

Before being an elitist prick, check your own math. You're both right, both irrelevant, and both retarded.
Reply #10 Top
Look at your graph, a quick glance should suffice. Does that even remotely resemble the 30% increase you're supposedly showing?
End of quote

wait, what? what 30% increase?

wow you've vastly confounded me... a 30% increase would break the game!
Before being an elitist prick.
End of quote

heh...
to quote my favorite poster so far
"pot meet kettle".
Reply #11 Top
I really do wonder how much time you have to yourself sometimes Schemy.

Go out into the sun more, hang out with your friends, enjoy life :)
Reply #12 Top
when you can master excel life suddenly grows an extra 6 hours to the day :P
Reply #13 Top
If it takes you ten minutes to go from five mines to ten mines in a relatively smooth progression, you've made up half of your payback time. If you wait until achieving those ten mines and do so in the same manner, you're not maybe a minute behind, you're seven and a half minutes behind.
End of quote


That is correct, 7.5 minutes behind... That = 90 crystal and 90 metal you forfeit in favor of a 600 credit, 50 metal and 100 crystal advantage early game.

600/50/100 early game is worth WAY more then 90/90 at the 45 minute mark.

Glad you could join us in the toolbox. I think you are the sharpest tool of us all...






Reply #15 Top
???
wait, you changed your name to kinesis? what?
600/50/100 early game is worth WAY more then 90/90 at the 45 minute mark.
End of quote

your missing an important point here, I'll let you figure it out.
Reply #16 Top
I am confused.
Reply #17 Top
Ok whatever your name is. You start with three asteroids, two more isn't a long ways off. It takes you less than 25 minutes to make up the cost by the previous example, and if you haven't gotten those five mines inside five minutes, you bite the big one. Whether or not it's more useful to have the resources or the tech early on is game dependant. You're not magically ending up at the same level of resource gain even though you researched it earlier, this is the point you fail to grasp. It is an advantage to start researching it at the very beginning, as long as you can afford to. However, I do agree that I am sharper than the both of you.

Schod, I'm not an elitist prick unfortunately, but the concept applies just fine. I do assume that 90% of humanity is too stupid to deserve to live, I just include myself in that 90%. Unfortunately, I checked my math. It was really easy see, six times five is thirty. What I did miss however is that your chart is just the upgrades and not the total production including base. If you were any good at this, you'd have been able to make a much more impressive post in retaliation. Lots of fodder on that one.
Reply #18 Top
I'm not an elitist prick unfortunately
End of quote

no other type of personality jumps into a thread and does a whirlwind accusathon.
Reply #19 Top


My numbers were mistakenly doubled in the first chart. An upgraded extractor produces 1.5 more units per minute, not 3.

The person wo upgraded at 10 extractors will have a 900 credit advantage early game.
The person who upgraded at 5 extractors will have a 525 credit advantage at the 65 minute mark.

900 credits early game > 900 credits an hour later, let alone 525.

This is assuming:
100% allegience on all extractors
1 extractor aquired every 5 minutes

Of coarse everything depends on the situation. These are just good things to know.
Reply #20 Top
Exactly, which is why you're both retarded for arguing with each other over nothing.
Reply #21 Top
I argue over principle.

so yeah, over nothing  :LOL: 
Reply #22 Top
I dont see why this huge argument erupted over a small bit of data designed to assist people. Everyone take a deep breath.
In.
and out.
in.
and out.
repeat.





And Psychoak quit being a condescendant forum troll!
Reply #23 Top
You know, this topic was dead before you decided to bump it.
Reply #24 Top
and until you bumped it again!  :CONGRAT: 
Reply #25 Top
Funny, it was at the top when I replied. So....And now it is again. Whoopsy! :SURPRISED: