MOO 3...what the hell happened?

I agree -
I just played for 8 hours today MOO3 and it is complex - I normally like complex games - but much of the interface and strategy is beyond fun - it's tideous.

a big disappointment.

I have the strangest notion, that this is the result of scrapping the game they had back 1½ year ago, on the reasons that it was too complex, and to much a galaxy simulation without human interaction.
From there on, they've had to practically from scrath make the game, meaning that instead of 4 years of production, they only had 1½?

any thoughts on this one?

/Flemming

I knew it would suck as soon as I found out they took out my beloved Darloks... (:(

I still have my hopes up. I like complexity. That's why I like to play Axis and Allies (the boardgame) so I will buy this game, nonetheless.

Asmodean

I really DO think these opinions should ALSO be posted on the MOO3 forums. If all that gets posted there are raves and cheers, noone at Quicksilver is going to get the messages being posted here. And is there any reason you must respond to those "snot faced kids"?

Im enjoying Moo3. Ive played the 2 previous and like this one too. It isn't perfect though, there are drawbacks in the research model and in the enemy AI. But overall Im liking it.

There are people complaining about the game on the site, too.

raves and cheers is not all thats being posted at IG forums. I actually like it after i figured out that double earrows ment its exapndable panel. If the UI was done a little better (i could care less about graphics) they had better ingame documentation (or manual was up todate) and had Galciv's Diplomacy feel (the big descriptive narratives portion).. I can't coment on computer player AI yet as i haven't played it enough. And galciovs storyline scerios that pop up. Both are good games. I like em equally well.. but if galciv had moo3's vicroys then at this point in time i'd lean towards galciv..

both games have depth.. With moo3 you have to gothrough 5 hours of pain to see it.. with glaciv you have to go through 5 games of no pain to see it. And unfornutaly that 5 hours of pain is gonna be MoO3's downfall unless they at least make some enclypeda and /master notes adjustments.. Moo3 needs a full fledge tutorial mode. while glaciv can get away with master's notes.

I have to say though the 8 hours of Moo3 i played last night I actually had more fun then i've had with galciv. I must be a masochist. I'm one of the 4X gamers that hate micromangement. and MoO3 really does a great job of doing that. Too good for the average 4x gamer. If it was just easier to learn, it would make 4X games break into the average gamer market, at the possible expense of alienating (pun intended) the typical 4X gamer.

Thats why the game i'm desiging I'm gonna to allow other UI's to interface with the game (This also makes it simpiler to write AI's that can not cheat). MoO3 just needs a better interface.

I like the game. The first few hours were tough, and it's not perfect, but it's still a pretty good strategy game.

But again, no Darloks. DAMN YOU QUICKSILVER!

IG and Quicksilver are very happy, its sold loads and thats all that matters.

It's not all that matters... If it sells loads and it's bad, it'll make loads of people believing MOO sery is bad. And it'll show on next selling curves since it'll have to rebuild its confidence...

I can't say i've "broken through" the barrier on Moo3 yet. But it seems that after a good while most people are beginning to like it. Not managed anything more interesting that wailing on the turn button yet

Galciv is much more of the game I expected Moo3 to be than Moo3. But hey GalCiv is ace and i've not even seen the final yet. It's nice that they're fairly different games though not just carbon copies of one another.

I'd be mighty smug at the minute if i'd bet on the home team though

TBS games have been traditionally been the domain of controll freaks, and MOO3 takes away so much control you pull your hair out. I do NOT agree that after playing awhile most players will begin to like it. Only a small minority of the TBS community are going to like "macromanagement". (:(

I'll tell you why I won't bother to post it there. A, negative posts seem to have a habit of disappearing there. I've answered 3 polls over there and all of them disappeared within hours. B, there are lots of people who have said the same thing. C, the response is predictable. I will be told how I need to give the game a chance. I will be told how I'm too stupid to get it. I will be told that it's a game for people who like depth.

The game doesn't have depth. It's just a train wreck masquerading as depth. Space Empires IV is better than this game. Some people will like this game. Some people will like any game. Those people should give SE IV a try. It has the real depth for people who want complicated strategy games.

I looked in my MOO directory and there are a bunch of .bik files. Same kinds of files that I noticed GC uses and I have a BIK player from Radtools.com. The end screens are terrible.

I watched a scout fight an unarmed colony ship for 10 minutes. No way to abort. No way to auto finish the battle. The ships move on a black 2D space like ships in the water. Not even a space background. It was like watching Harpoon with worse graphics and sound.

I had aliens complain about my behavior without telling me why. This isn't AI. It's just shoddy work. I got GalCiv because I was waiting for MOO 3. GalCiv was supposed to tide me over until MOO 3. Instead it's GalCiv that I'm anxiously waiting the final version of. It doesn't ask me to invest days of work to eek out fun. It's fun from the start.

Well I have been one of the ones waiting for MOO3 since its first announcement and I have to say I am very disappointed. Overly complex could have do the same stuff in a much more simple way. Instead of making ways so you don't have to micromanage if you want not to they basicly force nonmicromanageing on you as I had my ordered builds overridden by the AI and they would continue building utterly useless things like tons of troop ships I didnt want when they SHOULD have been building coloney ships to fill the planets I marked to colonize! Now I don't mind having builds overridden if its for a good reason but many of the things build were either useless or redundant being built instead of something the planet or my fleet needed. Moo3's AI is utter stupid. I have been warned and even had war declared on me for no seeable reason. Including a war declared by someone who had no coloneys close to me and was much militarily weaker judgeing by the few forces they bothers to send the long distance to me. While it does have some fun to it over all MOO3 is not a very good game. That said I will play it some more after all I only spent 7 hours on it so far and maybe it will seem better after but I really get the feeling once I get the release version of Galciv that MOO3 will never be played again. I am glad I found Galciv its much closer to the game I was hoping for.

GAL CIV is the bomb dude, compared to the tanking MOO3!

I have an eye for games. Basically people are like electricity. They take the path of least resistance! If the game is to hard to learn, or the learning curve is too step, then they will bow out. However, if a game is intuitive, (you don't have to play 40 hours to learn it) then the game will be fun.

It did not taake me but less that 10 minutes to figure out what to do in GAL CIV. It is adictive. Now MOO3, wow, it will be a while before I can get into it.

All I have to say is where were the beta testers at on MOO3? All pastel colors. yuk!

Oh by the way, I did post this on IG's forum. No flames yet! hehehe!!!

GAL CIV will be a lot better than MOO3! I have beta tested a few other 4x games, and have on hand just about all of the 4x games that has arrived on the market.

I even started beta testing one that started, but was cancelled.

Unless QS fixes the graphics in MOO3, and screens, it will go as far as the $1.99 game bin! Sad to say. Graphics are something between MOO1 and MOO2. It starts out with neat graphics, but then it looks like the resolution has been dumbed down. May be they had a problem with higher resolutions. It may have caused bugs that they were not able to fix. A fix that would have delayed it longer. So it would be better to release it now and provide a patch later. I hope!

GAL CIV you guys have impressed me with the clouds turning around the planet. You can see depth. I love this game!!!!

"Unless QS fixes the graphics in MOO3, and screens"

Thats not very realistic, if you think they will make a patch to change the graphics and screens?
The screens are basically the game itself.

IMO the issues with galciv isnt graphics, but intuitivity. It's like you said, Betamann, one sits looking at the Moo3 screens, and doenst know what to do next, because it feels like you are not in control.

I tried it briefly last night (1 hour) and after going through the "masters notes" (Intro text to help with screensz) I pressed "End turn" a few times, and got to decide where my colonyship should go.
That was basically the amount of decisions I got to make in 1 hour gameplay.

I realize that this may be because I don't understand the game, but hey - then perhaps the game is a bit to unwieldy for the average non-genius to play

I REALLY hope the game will grow on you, but sigh, I have to agree right now with all the negativity I've heard so far on the IG forums

/Flemming

Yeah, I know, it really is unrealistic to think they will change the graphics short of a rewrite. But one can only hope.

I loved MOO1, MOO2, and I really hope MOO3 will survive. Then again, I thought Reach for the Stars was going to make it as well! NOT!!

I can still hope.

I do not think GAL CIV will suffer the negativity that MOO3 is going through.

I don't think that Star Trek: Birth of the Federation went through that much trouble!

TJ

The biggest problem right now is there has been no response from QS about bugs. They have pretty much disappeared from the forums at least.

galciv already went through its rough time in the beta. the game everyone else gets is more like a galciv 1.5. id be shocked if there are any serious flames here on the game. it's stable. the ai is great. the polish is good. lots of depth. the interface is easier than any other 4x game i've played. seriously any reviewer that gives this game less than 5 stars would be suspect in my mind. i don't say that on games normally. i'm old and not a 'fanboi'. i just know quality when i see it.

Some programmers are not paid to support a product after it's shipped...

Another way StarDock comes off as unique. Brad has already stated that a years worth of future development for Galciv has ALREADY been funded,.

Nice! If Paradox can have such great after release support without being payed, imagine what Stardock can do with funding! Can't wait for this to come out! Maybe if I get a job now I'll be able to afford it by then.

I actually like the macromanagement aspect of MOO3 and working through Dev plans. The AI is really quite intelligent at doing what you tell it to do.

Unfortunately, the game failed to ship with a manual that tells you how to work with the AI. I think the bulk of the complaints with MOO3 could be addressed if there was a real manual and a real tutorial.

The already steep learning curve turns into a vertical learning cliff that countless people are falling off of.

Hopefully, GalCiv will ship with a good manual and tutorial that explains little thing like, I dunno, HOW TO PLAY THE GAME.