Quick SoaSE gameplay question

Ships move in all dimensions, X,Y, and Z, but it is easier to control than the Homeworld style.

I don't understand why people need to move in Z axis. Perhaps K3ph42 can explain this to me? As far as I can tell most guns have such turret coverage you can't go above or below the field of fire.

Not having played SoaSE, I can't predict whether the same tactics will be useful, but in HW, it was useful if you needed to hide ships from your opponent, sneak up on them, or if you were the type to try turtling in that game, you could pack more autonomous turrets in your 'base' without cluttering or obstructing your other operations by positioning them above or below things rather than only next to them.



That's what I wanted to hear, thanks!

In sins you can see all ships in a gravity well so long as you've got one there yourself (no local FoW), so those sorts of tactics aren't so useful.

Yea, that right there killed any argument i had for full z axis movement.

It would favor the attacker way to much, as the defender would have to have a even sphere of defenses, the attacker would have a instant view of all these defenses and could pick the weakest point. A fog of war would at least allowed for a few hidden surprises, but the fact your defending a planet means you'll get really spread out or have a insane number of defences (i'm not arguing for a fog of war btw).

Plenty of surprises are possible

But yes the ships will stack in Z axis by themselves so they don't over clutter the screen. And it is very easy to put all your ships in middle of a bunch of turrets.

There is simply no need to move in Z axis other than to say "Look I'm using the Z axis!"

Being the second post in a row that I read with Astax claiming no use, and my boredom, here is three completely off the top of my head reasons to use the Z.

1. Flying over a row of turrets to reach the planet instead of going straight through and getting shot.

2. Avoiding a wave of defenders attacking straight ahead by going over and past to jump to the next grav well.

last but not least

3. In a large scale battle, at least in beta 4, there were ways to get the AI to attack few ships without regard for the rest, so you can pummel their undefended ships. The easiest and best % move of doing that is to take a pack of frigates fly over or under the enemies fleet to it will turn and dive, leaving their flanks open.

But, once again, these are useless, so I'm happy to scream, LOOK MA the Z axis!

1 and 2 don't matter , as all the ships/defenses can just shoot UP

3. The Beta AI was retarted, and has been promised to us to be a lot better...

Having not played the game, but been lurking these forums for the past two weeks, my impression is that ships will be able to move in 3d space. But the third axis won't be very tactically important.

By default ships will move along the 2d plane (i.e. with a simple right click), but you can manually make them move along the z axis if you are so inclined. However, the tactical benefits of such movements will me minimal.

This all goes along with the theme of reducing micro-management in the game, which means simplifying the tactical game.... which mean reducing the importance of the Z axis. Not to say it's completely useless, but flanking from the sides or from above or below will not be as important as it was in Homeworld or other RTSs...

Again, just impressions that i've gleaned from various threads and developer comments.

u want 3D but obviously cant even think in 3D else i dont know why u post something like this which makes no sense and is simply totaly wrong (try to guess why).

Okay, haven't even played the beta yet, so I just assumed that SoaSE had FoW like any other game with RTS components.

Then again people can be unpredictable, so we may see uses that haven't been thought of yet after the game goes retail and into the larger public's hands.

My lord, yes ships and defenses can shoot up and down, but I was under the impression their (defense placements) range were spherical and thus could be gotten around Z axis-ly. And yes beta AI blahg blah, but even new coding won't stop the advantage of having more ways to split a fleet or flank and enemy.

Linkes - U totally dont get my point else why would u insult me in such a way that makes me not want to respond to your post (try to figure out why).

I know, that if I can use the Z so can my enemies, but its allowance gives everyone that much more space to move. If you see no benefit in that fine.

If nothing else, I like the looks.

The sphere of fire is really big. A smart player will place the defenses in a ring around the planet. There will be no place where you can bomb the planet and not get hit unless the player is total novice. And going around will give the player enough time to brign in fleets from other planets. One time a guy went around bulk of my defenses I got a huge fleet form 2 planets away to arrive.

If you want tactics, then bring longer range frigates or bombers to attack the planet defenses instead going around them.

To clarify, the gravity well itself is spherical, so there's a limit to how far up/down you can go

and where exactly is the advantage going around on the Z-axis compared to the other two?

this in fact was not a "quick SoaSe gameplay question". how sad everything debated to death. if only we had the game all this petty bickering could be solved
from my understanding the Z-axis is present but the players themselves wont be able to move ships through that axis. the players only have control on a 2d plane but it's presented in 3d and the computer decides when to move stuff through the z-axis ie when there are too many ships in one space.

This is false Players can move ships on the z-axis at will, it's just that there's really no overwhelming reason to

Tactics are still imporant in the game, including flanking and surprise attacks.  The major difference is these tactics are more important on a solar system basis, as opposed to a gravity well basis. (ie. flanking an enemies empire from two frontline planets.  Fog of war works on a system level as well)

How long DOES it take to bring a fleet in from, say, a neighboring planet? I like surprise attacks and would like them to actually benefit me significantly.

it is impossible to fly over (Z axis) the weapons range of ANY of the defense structures.

Depends on the distance of the two gw's and if you have researched quicker phase drives but by that time you probably should think about attacking from the star because you will be detected from a roid or planet due to research in phase drive detection. Least thats how it works in beta 4.

The Z-Axis is implemented the same way it was in StarTrek Armada. Barely at all and completely irrelevant. It's nothing like Homeworld, which was brilliant in it's 3D Movement.

First armada had NO z axis, not "barely at all".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ9yWrFzk9w

Above youtube video give the best example of Z axis movement i am aware of. Cap ships are the primary units to suffer from the limited z axis, but i remember moving around my cruisers in HW2 and i'm not crying.

There is more then enough Z axis movement to keep me happy. If you still believe that Sins has the same range of Z axis as armada, please inform me so i may disregard all further comments from you.

Star Trek Armada II had Z axis... PITA to use, and really, really annoying. Unlike HW, it wasn't required to use it however.

That's the funny thing about it. If Homeworld didn't force you to use the Z axis, nobody would use it either