If you are on the fence whether to buy it go ahead and buy it, this is stardock we are talking about . Seriously tho, there will be many review sites that review it and they will let you know if there is anything wrong with the game and give you a general idea if this will be a game you like. You do not have to have a demo to tell you this.

Reviews have bias and are "bought" by the marketing departments of major publishers, look at most of the hyped up games that have been released and are average to disappointing. Demos are the closest way to bypass the bias and hype and see if you actually like the game. Shame the demo of bioshock didn't stop me from buying the contrite pile of crap that it truly is.

To each their own, this game had a unique setting and art style, given the time period it was set in. Though nothing truly innovative, its presentation was excellent.

Just had to throw in my $0.02.

Can't wait for this game!

Kyro really hates pirates Hate is not the solution converting is. There should be a Stardock convert department! Imho Kyro shouldnt lead that one

I liked Bioshock... :NOTSURE:

To all well informed forum-members what I wrote must really look like trolling. I'm aware of that, but that's what uninformed criticism is like.
I work in game-testing (yes, for full-price titles with a budget just as big as Sins') and where I work uninformed first-look impressions are worth gold. Even more so if it's negative since inexperienced users have a clearer view of a product's shortcomings. That's why I wrote my thoughts so unfiltered.

I think that's it for my part in the discussion. The approximate release date of the demo is fixed and I've given my feedback on it. Have fun with the game folks.

Goodness me you're still at it

Calm down; vain was stating what a third party might think at first impression, though to be entirely honest the delay of a demo means to me that they spent so much more time on getting the game just right to focus on releasing a demo... I see it as a more positive thing. vain, are your views based on fellow game-testers or on the public?

System Shock II was way better, 2k games boston and australia I have a problem with since they butchered the tribes franchise.

I seem to have missed where a demo is somehow a requirement for a game release...

Last I checked, post-release demos have been an equally viable market strategy. Considering IC/SD's emphasis on quality, support, and releasing *finished* products (something other developers/publishers should take note on), I'm not at all surprised with the decision to have a post-release demo.

If you really want the game now, you'll shell out for it. If it's something you're iffy on, then you'll suck it up, wait for the demo, and then buy it then. I fail to see any problems, and certainly cannot see the line of reasoning used by the OP.

As a representative of Ironclad (the company that made Sins) I can tell you we simply could not have made a demo even if we wanted to - we put every last second into making sure the retail copy was as bug free, stable, and fun as we possibly could. A demo would have only hindered this as it would have eaten about a month of development. The demo for Stardock and Ironclad products have always/will always come out after the product so that it is an accurate representation of the finished product and so that it doesn't interfere with perfecting the finished product.

I also want to be very clear about this since no one else has brought it up. In no way are we trying to hide anything or pull one over on gamers by not giving them a demo before release. We've had the beta going since March (almost a year now!) and there was no NDA (non-disclosure agreement). Everyone in the beta right up until now has been 100%, absolutely, positively, completely free to say whatever they wanted about the game. Take screenshots, make movies, do whatever they wanted (check out how old some of the dates on the Sins youtube videos are). We've had as open a development process as there has ever been and I'll admit in the early days it was pretty rough and their was a lot of criticism but we worked through it, in the public's eyes, for the whole world to see. Once we got past that, many testers said the beta became more stable, bug free, and fun than most games at release. Now the almost unanimous response is that Sins is well worth buying, even without a demo and we've got almost a year's worth of public opinion to back it up.

*P.S If anyone wants to verify this, the records are all here on the forums and distributed over various places on the net available via google.

Bioshock a contrite pile of what? U must like Hello Kitty Island adventure...

I don't see much point in playing a demo, as the full game is normally where most developers/publishers put their work.

Blair, you guy's are awesome.

I'm amazed (and a little disappointed) that people started complaining and making wild claims about the reasons for not having a demo prior to release. Anyway you guy's rock - bring on the release.