i think they are exact in release, according to the pirate interface it restarts the countdown everytime at 12 minutes once the first attack happened. In beta the lines were different, they were something like mintimebetweenattacks to maxtimebetweenattack, something to that effect anyways.

yes they do happen more frequently, in beta it usually happened about every 20 minutes or so instead of 12.

Because it's easily worked around both in game and out (by modifying some text). It's a valid gripe with a solution present that some folks choose to ignore. Perhaps it'll be changed in a future patch.

I guess the problem is that we and many others interpret this statement as a complement - Sins is not your standard RTS and we welcome change, innovation and new ideas. There are too many standard RTS's on the market and if I was forced to make another one I would quit my job. I'm not the only one who feels this way either: the pirate mechanic has been mentionned by many as one of the most fun and innovative systems in Sins and in games in general. To give it credit though, its actually a system inspired by a famous and popular strategy game called Settlers of Catan : Cities and Knights.

Personally, I think its one of the best parts of the game - I just love sniping the bounty on someone at the last second - its exhilirating and suspenseful. I love bidding wars. I love being able to play an economic game but being able to hire the pirates to handle my dirty work. I love that I can anonymously backstab my *allies* by sending pirates at them. I love being able to tie up another player on one front with the pirates so I can focus on another player. I love stealing the pirates booty. I love timing the pirate attack with my own. I love that I can survive after my fleet has been decimated by raiding trade ships to fund a mercenary pirate army. I love a system that allows me to collaborate with enemies to take out a strong player without having to ally. I love that pirates keep things interesting while human players build up. I love farming them for experience for my low level capitalships. I could probably go for awhile but you get the idea.

Regardless, we recognize it isn't for everyone so here is what we are going to do. We'll build some new maps without pirates and include them as soon as possible. Anything more drastic (such as turning them off completely) would take a fair bit more work and couldn't be done quickly. Besides, we'd also like to take some time to evaluate possible side effects of their removal that we haven't considered yet.

Thanks for bringing up your concerns,

-Blair

As a beta tester who has been with this project for almost a year, I have come to absolutely LOVE the pirate idea. I didnt like it untill I came to understand the Lor of the game. Then it makes compleat sense and actually works to balance the gave very nicely. While I too agree that the preset frequency of the pirate attacks is a little on the quick side, that is easily fixed. I have no doubt that in the next patch it will be tweeked with. that is the GREAT thing about the companies you chose to support by buying this game. They actually care about us and our oppinions.

So with that in mind PLEASE BE POLITE!!! If you ask nicely and support your objections or concerns with helpful info about the map/settings/stratagies you have been playing they will be MUCH more likely to use your constructive criticism and incorporate it into the game.

SEEE just like i said! As i was typing, they showed you they care!

Thanks Blair for your response, it shows that were getting WAY more then we payed for.

Pirates may be annoying at times but they are nothing a well defended system can't handle...also they do give you good XP .

I started, yesterday, despising the pirates, until I realized they allowed me to work on my economy more than ships, if I can win the bidding wars. Seeing as I'm more of a peaceful/defensive 4X player, I really like that.

And, I have to admit... having a massive pirate fleet arrive while I'm fighting a massive defensive battle against one of the AI... it made for one heck of a light show. My fleet may have been wiped out, but I loved it.

Now, if the mission system could be improved to allow for peaceful diplomacy at least in the early game, and I could get more battles like the above instead of siege frigate spam, this would be the best game I could imagine.

i love the pirates!

though the frequency of attacks should be somewhat reduced.

Again, I totally get the concept and agree they add a nice wrinkle to the game, but every 12 minutes seems too frequent.

I mean, consider the experience of a new player like myself. I've got all the details cranked up , I'm immersed in the environment looking at all the pretty nebulae and fearsome ships and diving into the space opera as I plot and build my empire in gorgeous 3D. Then , every 12 minutes I'm pulled out of that immersion so I can look at a rather bland 2D screen with one button on it to play M.U.L.E. with the galactic eBay powersellers called the Pirates.

Actually, if the bidding war worked like it did in M.U.L.E. that might be a lot more fun. But right now it just seems to distract me from the rest of the game I'm trying to pay attention to.

They are annoying, while playing a big map of 5 stars, i almost got thrashed (twice) by large fleet of pirate ships.

Once I have some good ships and some Capital ships, they are easy to be delt with. Also it allows me to level my big ships.

The pirates are a very innovative and great idea imo. Adds a new layer of strategy to the game.

It is very annoying starting out for the first time tho as I was struggling with my economy to build up a fleet and bidding wars was not helping either. I personally think the mission system needs to be revised instead of the pirate system.

Thanks for the reply.

I should have followed the development of this game on the minute level apparently before purchasing. I heard good things and I see good things in the game, but the pirates are a huge part of the default settings. You can't play random maps without them and there is no indication which pre-made maps don't include them.

Randomness is NEVER a substitute for innovation. Pirates randomly effect the game. Its not pleasant, but some people enjoy the idea of a challenge or something new. I tend to look a bit deeper than that. If Pirates (and I can't relay how absolutely silly I feel typing the word Pirates when discussing what is supposed to be a serious space strategy game) are an important part of the game mechanics and inseparable from the game's balance, then I'm really disturbed about lurks under the hood.

That being said, I'll try messing with the attack frequency and pray that someday the option will exist to turn them off.

I don't want to seem nasty or negative, but along with EU3, this was the game I was most looking forward to in the last 12 months and I'm very, very disappointed by the Pirates effecting play so much.

I love how much the word annoying is being used to describe pirates. lol. Have pirates ever been convenient?

"Oh good - I almost made it to port with all my goods intact. Thank goodness these pirates showed up to clean me out. Bless their completely unannoying hearts, I would have had to sell it all."

Great reply, nicely handled as always. I havn't had a chance to get into the game much, but I had a few questions about the tactics just mentioned by Blair.

What does he mean "I love that I can survive after my fleet has been decimated by raiding trade ships to fund a mercenary pirate army"? How does killing trade ships get you credits? Like I said, I havn't spent long on the game yet.

also "I love stealing the pirates booty" is this just claiming the planets and systems after a pirate attack do you think?

yes you can play random maps without pirates, just use the ingame map designer and create a new map, delete the pirate base, add stars/planets type(random)till satisfied with size then play the map. Doing this is just like playing one of the small/medium/large/huge random premade maps except you yourself is defining the limitations.

also why does having pirates in space a detriment to a serious space strategy game? what defines a serious space game? it's all personal preference.

I would say give it time, the more experience you get, you will learn how to use pirates in your favor to turn the tide of things. I dont think pirates are random, everybody has control in who they attack through bounties so it adds a whole new layer of strategy to the game.

Pirates in space is a very believable thing. There are pirates in the world today still, of course with all this war breaking out individuals are going to band together and do stuff for the highest bidder. Mercenaries is a much suited term imo but space combat is similar to naval combat so pirates still fits in this theme.

New maps with indicators forthcoming as I mentionned in the previous post.

  

Pirates aren't random. They will attack whoever has the highest bounty on them. There is a "wanted poster" to show who the next target will be when the timer expires. You can also see the progress of the timer and are warned when it's near completion.

I'll leave it to the public to address whether they think Sins is innovative, introduces new challenges or brings something new to gaming. I certainly feel Sins covers all three quite well and if I didn't I wouldn't have worked on it.

When people have bounties on their heads, killing their ships and structures will net you a portion of the credits. Slaughtering traders and refinery ships can be a very useful source of income in this fashion.

Oh but there is, you just have to actually listen to what other people are saying and design your own map. Not only is it fun, but it also takes about 2 minutes.

I love this game but I’m squarely with the anti-pirate faction. As handled in the default game, they add nothing and detract much. First, no “pirate” worth their salt (or star dust) would engage in hopeless, pointless battles. No profit in it. I get the idea of using them as mercenaries but then call them mercenaries. You could pay them to tip the scales in close battles, that would be cool.

Moreover, in the beginning of the game, there’s great attention paid to setting the stage in a dramatic way, to introduce the 3 factions yet, there’s no mention of the “pirates?” What’s their role in all of this? As portrayed, perhaps, they are better described as the (GSCFR) the Grey Suicidal Cannon Fodder Race. You see, there was this penal planet and everyone went insane and now they want to die.

It’s like a great movie that uses some cheesy plot device at the end to wrap something up. I’m sure the game designers had a point to using the pirates but it’s lost on me. I said that in the Beta and it’s still true.

I think of them as more like Reavers (Firefly) but not insane and wanting profit (ok maybe a little insane for attacking a cap ship with a few small vessels)

guys if you played more than a few hours over 2 days we MIGHT lay credence to your claims (although I'm me, so its highly unlikely)

what you need to do is PLAY THE GAME. more than once, seriously. countering pirates depends on your situation, but unless you're expanding at the pace of a space-snail you shouldnt have that much of an issue with them, late game they are nothing but fodder.

I don't mind the pirates and I've played sins all of 3 hours already. They aren't THAT bad!