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Siege ships = game stopper.. :*(

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Siege ships = game stopper.. :*(

from Sins Forums
Atleast for me! :(

I just got the game yesterday, and gotten a few games in so far, each ending with the same thing. I like to build planets up, then move to the next juicy one and tear it apart, and rebuild.

Though, about 30 minutes in in each game, the AI tosses theese fleets of 14-20 Siege armadas on me, and totally wipes out my planets before I can do anything about it.

In the last game I thought I'd make it, were expandin faster, had the pirates paid off to go after the AI's all the time, had two nice big fleets holding three choke planets with 6-12 gauss platforms, 3-6 hangars and one planet even had shields. Weps upgraded for most ships too, lmr's had the MIRV torps..

Then came the AI siege fleet, first it wiped out my most heavily defended planet with my biggest fleet attending defence, and warped out, I killed maybe 7 or so ships out of 24 (I think), 10-15 minutes later I see the armada coming again, one lane away, this time for my economic chokehold planet. Needless to say, I hit "quit"...

I've read on how to build defences, have a fleet etc, but you can't kill the Siege ships quicker than they can kill your planet if they come in theese numbers!

The sad thing is, if a regular fleet shows at heavily defended planets, like a huuuuuuge pirate raid, they get chewed to bits by the defences, but Siege ships just go for the planet, ignoring everything else and chews through shields and 6000 HP in a minute.

Perhaps one supposed to use the same tactic and just skip all the nice bits of the game because you can't defend against this ONE type of ship properly? I know I could probarly build my own siege armadas quicker than the AI, but then, one would miss like 95% of the ship content, not to mention building of planets and trade networks...

I'm enough flustered to just give it a rest, because, if there is no point against the AI's , it will be the same online... everyone will just spam siege ships.
66,433 views 55 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
Just to emphasize the absurd logic in this argument:

Someobody is complaining because of the speed at which 24 siege ships destroy his/her colonies. Of course! There are 24 of them!!!

They had BETTER take down a colony quickly!
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
problem is that nobody is established as "wrong". the devs, grand as they are, are not omniscient. what they are is very eagre to please, and good for them, but at this crucial point in time it is a negative thing: being too hasty to switch based on a few sets of responses sets a bad precedence.

now, if I was "wrong in the first place" why didnt the devs nerf this for release? its because it wasnt more than a fleeting concern at that point, and likely shouldnt be one now.
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Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
I reckon they'll beat this horse into oblivion.
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
I see Schod's point that it's way too early, and I think that's his main point. On the other hand, I don't think it is, truly... but I've stated why I think so so many times now I'm just sick of repeating it.
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
ok, i havent gotten the game yet, but im going to, as soon as i play the demo

but if it is a "siege ship" shouldnt it have a weak hull and defenses but really strong guns, i mean, thats what a siege ship sounds like it should be

this would allow you to take out the siege ship with smaller ships and the like

again, i havent played yet
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
Same here. Your point is the embodiment of mine :P
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
I can see there being reason to change it, thats not what I'm concerned with. but the fact that this change comes out within DAYS of release is foolhardy. neither a dozen people playing the same way repeatedly (referencing gamma) nor a hundred thousand newbies playing the game for a few hours is a viable data pool. certainly not worth making game adjustments over

I asked for patience and time, instead we're getting reckless crowd-pleasing.
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Sign ... how many times I have to tell you, THIS IS a persistent problem since Beta, I am one (of the many) players for nearly a good half year, and some of us acknowledge this problem. I wonder how much you guys read other response in these topics, just like the first few answers in this topic. Again, drop the elitist attitude and these newbie crap please.


FYI, most of my games are 3VS7 with all AI on hard, I hold my ground and at the end my statistic top the AI at a distant. That doesn't make this problem any less annoying for methen it is for new players.


Is there a work around? Yes. Is it game stopper? No, blow up a planet doesn't really mean a lot when my entire fleet is intact on orbit. But is it annoying? Hell yes. Are game suppose to be annoying? Of course not.

And that's the whole point, it doesn't matter what your reasoning is, at the core of the problem something is not working right logically. It's something that may have problem with (and for the last time, for both new and veteran players), it's something the dev acknowledge, accept that fact and get over it please. :p 
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
Bottom line, siege ships should be REALLY WEAK, requiring them to be PROTECTED by a fleet. If you or the AI fails to protect them, THEY WILL DIE. That's the way it should be. period.

and this would ad a whole new strategy element to the game.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
I have played it for a bit and I find it odd that the AI even considers siege spam an option. It does it all the time and while I usually counter it in due time, I find it strange that the computer even wants to do it, given the big loss overall when they lose most of their sieges.

Now, if the AI had scouted my planet and say, found one of those I can't really be bothered to defend until it's too late, I can understand sending a fleet of sieges to quickly wipe out my colony and hurt me financially. The computer, however, seems to just randomly throw these siege frigs at just any planet within reach, even if it has 4 hangars (I usually play advent, so this means 12 fighters/bombers) and the rest of the tactical slots used for beams.

If the conclusion the AI makes is that siege spam really is a viable option under any circumstance, they should be rebalanced, as there would be no point in building anything other than maybe a few caps/basic frigs to keep possible fleets busy while you bomb away (and for the player who wishes to counter, figure out the best anti siege fleet combo, as the comp doesn't show with much else until later in the game).

If it is because the AI has a hard time putting a varied fleet together, it probably needs to be tweaked a bit. This is a brilliant game, btw, and really shines in multiplayer, but it would be nice to get more varied singleplayer too, as your friends might not be online when you are.. The game was just released, so I expected some balancing might be needed anyway. Just seems odd no one has yet really asked why the AI chooses the strategy and seemingly either simply saying "that's the way it is" or "nerf time!".
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
I have played a game or two for about an hour or so and havent encountered the mass siege ship spam either. Maybe the computer just doesn't like some of its players ? Maybe its punishment for you spamming units in other rts games who knows. Learn to beat the piss out of the computer and if your not an experienced rts game player this game isnt the best to really learn on. Go get a easier game :)
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top

Learn to beat the piss out of the computer and if your not an experienced rts game player this game isnt the best to really learn on. Go get a easier game
End of quote


Wow. Good advice. That applies to the developers too you know.
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top

Bottom line, siege ships should be REALLY WEAK, requiring them to be PROTECTED by a fleet. If you or the AI fails to protect them, THEY WILL DIE. That's the way it should be. period.

and this would ad a whole new strategy element to the game.
End of quote


Protected by fleet? How would you protect them? It's obvious people can choose to target siege over other frigates, and if you make em easier it will be even easier to kill the siege off before htey can retreat.
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
So i said learn to beat the the computer. I would hope that a RTS developer knows and is an experienced RTS player for as there making a RTS game. If you don't know much about RTS and aren't experienced in them i would be on a team making one IMO. If i owned a company and my people don't know have a good concept of games and know alot about them i wouldn't want them working for me making a game that cost $$$ money.
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
Well then, I suggest you return your game and buy one from a developer "experienced" in strategy games, cause this incompetent developer (your own words), experienced the same issue as those complaining. It's good that, in your few hours of play, you realize you're better at the game than them (again, you indicated this).
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
I didn't say i was or that the devs are bad but once you got a grasp of the game you can beat it anything can be beaten. I'm sure with as many people having problems as there are that there is a problem but you can still beat them. Alot of people are just giving up because its happening. I didn't say the game was bad I think its great game. AI is something thats never worked correct in most games. Most games have the Ai just make one or two things and rush you. And i am not trying to call anyone incompetent as far as the game was made. Its a great game. AI spamming 1 unit of the same thing is in alot of rts games its not something I don't expect from rts games. I don't mean to offend anyone its a great game and i don't have any problems with it. Its one of the best ones out.

And i said i didn't have the problem with the siege either so I probably am not better then anyone else that plays. But i do know that theres surely a way to beat down any force.
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
Siege ships shouldn't be spammed. Period. Regardless of whether you can beat them.

They should be weakly armoured, strongly armed. That's how siege units have always been. Period. If you're upset that the enemy can target your siege units, well, whooptydo, that's generally how it is anyway. If you don't like it, modify your strategy - siege units should not and now, thanks to the nerf, cannot be spammed. Good.

Stop whining.
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
Reminds me too much of rushing.. Thanks though for retuning the siege ships.. :) Now, onto carrier fleets.. :P

Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top
Ok so i got tired of reading the same things over and over. I had the same problem at first, but then i realized i was being DUMB, placing all my gaus guns out of range of my planets. If you place 10-15 guas guns with in rang of the planet, along with a few hangers, that easily takes care of even 20+ seigers. especially if you have the gaus gun upgrades! if your current stratagy isnt working come up with one that does, that is what is sooo very AWESOME about this game, its about stratagy. Your supposed to think through what your doing. If you didnt think well enough the first time, that great. You loose as we all have, you have to think harder next time to beet it. I garentee if you learn to effectively kill their seige frigs then youll be chewing up their money and you will have wont that "battle" but you still have to figure out how to win the war!
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
This is hardly a problem. I have no idea why you guys face such difficulties with siege ships - A simple fleet of lousy tier 1 frigates kick their asses.

But guys, please give the devs some more credit. They don't nerf the siege ships merely due to the complaints, they nerf 'em because it goes with their logic - siege engines are nothing on their own, they need major fighting force in order to protect them. And besides, otherwise it will be siege ships-spamming festival, and that's just boring.
Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top
Seige ships should be nerfed in how much damage they can take. They should have to be supported by other types of ships to be able to attack a planet without trouble.
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
I have had issues with siege spam as well. Though, they haven't been able to do very much, since they don't go beyond my border worlds.

I can't destroy them fast enough though... They are in packs of 20-30, and I have a huge fast fleet ready to engage them, but I've been chasing them around for quite a while. The speed in which they can destroy a planet vs how fast I can destroy them is skewed, even with a fleet twice as large as theirs chasing them down.

So far my only way of countering them, is simply having a larger fleet in the system and they don't even jump in, or if they do... they jump out because how the AI reacts to being outnumbered.
Reply #48 from Stardock Forums Top
This is not a game breaker. I easily managed to defeat a fleet of siege frigates that came my way before they took down my planet. I'm new to the game, I really dont know a lot about but I am an experienced RTS player.

Like others have said, there are strategies to work this out. Try different things and dont be afraid of saving then reloading when things go wrong. This game really feels like there are many solutions to different problems, not just a counter to a problem - but many.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Sheesh, why don't we rename "siege ship" to something like "Orbital Bombardment Ships"... then you can cut it with the ridiculous "siege units are weakly armored because they've always been weakly armored" BS.
Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top
Sheesh, why don't we rename "siege ship" to something like "Orbital Bombardment Ships"... then you can cut it with the ridiculous "siege units are weakly armored because they've always been weakly armored" BS.
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This is hardly BS, and the name does not matter, either. You either put massive cannons/rock throwers/bombs to deal with large, fortified targets but leave the armor lacking or you lower the firepower for some extra armor and assault capabilities. You cannot simply put high armor, high mobility and high firepower in a unit, something's got to give, in real life and gaming-balance as well.

You can call it anything you want, the fact remains that the unit's main purpose is to siege other planets, and in that matter, it's no different than a flying, metalic, highly-sophisticated catapult.