I'm not particularly interested in "pleasing the other side". I haven't even looked at the patch notes for 1.02 because like I said in another thread, maybe I got a different game than you guys did but if I:

1. Cap asteroid belt mining stations as soon as possible
2. Sell the massive mineral surplus to get cash to bribe the pirates with
2. Max out the tactical slots on all my border worlds

Then I never see these problems on a medium AI. Yes, I see strike groups consisting of nothing more than 12-14 Cleansers/Siege Frigates/Those weird Vasari beam frigates but they usually withdraw after losing half their group to bomber strafing. In fact, I'm actually thankful the AI seems to put a premium on minimizing losses and retreating because I'm pretty sure that if he suicide-ran it like I'm sure a human player did I'd lose the asteroid and have to recolonize it.

And I am a guy who couldn't play GalCiv 2 without abusing the cheat codes. Not a single goddamn game.

I support an increase (perhaps doubling) of the phase inhibitor's jump penalty. That's it. The other ideas are backwards, draconian concepts that should have died with Conquest: Frontier Wars.

I hereby agree with every reply before this one.

I think people complaining about AI is a different discussion (and I agree, it isn't a problem). I think the complaint here is what a human can do to you.

Either way, it seems ridiculous to me too that phase inhibitors really don't seem to do much. What was the reason phase inhibitors were nerfed down from the beta? Why don't phase inhibitors stop people from phasing, forcing them to take out the phase inhibitor? Isn't the point to be able to create strategic choke points and hard points which you can defend?

I think the main problem is in the feeling. Anyone else feel like their fleets are permeable? They have no substance. Everyone can just move right through you like water through a sieve. You can't hold the front lines because even with a PJI (assuming you played long enough to get one before getting pissed) ships escape. I had enemy siege frigates three planets in, after flying through 2 asteroids with 2 hangers of 3 bomber squads each. It just seems to me like the fleets lack any mass. If this is a design choice, well then I'll deal with it. If it isn't then something needs to happen.

The ships should just not be able to phase unless they have enough antimatter to do so. Cap ships would be hard to retreat if not watched carefully and if their abilities were on auto. It would also make you have to choose if they retreat or use an ability and stick it out. Having required antimatter and a PJI should slow things down. Or perhaps having a cooldown timer on phasing could do the trick.

I retreat my caps ships if they get damaged to much. There is to much at stake lossing a level 5 or level 7 cap ship.

The AI is doing what you would do. I would however have no problem sacrificing a level 1 cap ship.

I like the system actually. Sure it could use some fixes but with that kinda tech, that's the kind of strategies youd expect to see. I'm starting to have some battlestar galactica flashbacks with all the damned jumping though.

You can't have the mentality that you're going to catch him no matter what, that you're always going to catch him.

That's what gets you locked into chasing him, you think you're going to chase him and eventually catch up. If he's ahead of you, he's ahead of you. You have to outmaneuver him and anticipate his moves, or just give up until you meet in combat again.

There's no shame in letting him go if you're just wasting time chasing him around.

Well, while it's not a major problem, it does provide a healthy doze of annoyance.

These tag games are pretty popular early in game and even in late game it's still very popular. Like just a while ago this happen in my game. A group of AI frigate jump to my planet which is defensed by two cap ships and lots of turrets/hangars. They turned tail and jump out immediately. Since the two cap ships were parking right at the edge of the gravity well I decided to hot pursuit that fleet. Well, the moment my cap ships finish their jump, that fleet already turned around and jumped back to my planet. So I jumped back with them, which again, they jumped out immediately, in which I follow again, and ofcourse they jumped back to my planet right away. By this time I was really pissed so I decided "I'll just nuke that planet of yours!!". Surprising though, my statis defense was enough to scare them off so even without my 2 capitals ships jump back with them, the fleet still turn around and jump back to their planet (which is where my two caps ship are), and two cap ships were too much for them so they jump back to my planet, so on so forth.

That loop continues for quite a few times, it looks funny at first but it doesn't take long for me to think it's kinda stupid. And this is just a typical example of a regular show.



I think the problem here is there are not enough restriction and jumping is more or less a do as you please kind of things. Since Beta 2 it's decided the PJI no longer permanent locked out jumping, I didn't exactly agree with the decision but I'm ok with it (I think the main reason is to compliment the AI as right now they don't seem to scout ahead). But still, there should be some restriction as a punishment of some sort for fleets that making a blind jump, not the "oh boy, wrong place, ciao!". Although the jumping fleet does not get totally locked out their chance of survival, there should be a window of opportunity to attack them.


This is a problem, and depend on the type of game you play it can get quite serious. People who have been saying you can use stuffs like the Ion cannon on the TEC's Akkan to disable Capships and that's the only thing that's matter. You're right, but you probably haven't play a large game with lots of players yet. The thing is while you can slow down and destroy a Cap Ship or two, those run away frigate in time will just stack up on the other side (as right now if those frigate want to run, there aren't much chance to stop them). What I'm getting at is a death lock situation, the AI can not tackle your defense and will keep running away, and in time, the force on the other side can stack up to something like 300 hundred frigates. Happenned to me, and trust me, with a whole fleet of Cap ship at level 7-10 and about 150 worth units of Kodiak, that stack of Frigate was not a pretty sight.





I think a possible solution can be something that restrict the never ending sequence of jumping. Why not making phase jump an actual ability that require its own cooling time and Anti-matter requirement. Jumping already consume anti-matter, making this as requirement will at least put a limit on these jump sequence. If the AI decides to play tag, this will at least limit how many time they can afford to be tagged. (With the exception of Scout Frigate maybe).

You have to look at it two different ways. If you're playing an AI you can almost garentee if your fleet is bigger than his, he's going to run, every time I had a bigger fleet than the opposing AI he ran, even on his homeworld, and he won't immediately jump back through the phase lane he just took if it was from one of your worlds, he is offically retreating and will go back to regroup.

Playing against another player is a whole different ball game, always is and always will be. It brings another element to the game when you play against a player because you can't read his movements, you don't always know what he's going to do so you have to decide how you're going to counter there movements, you know they can phase jump one way and then decide to go right back threw so you need to be a head of the game and just wait, or if he didn't come back then you know he wasn't going to bother there it's all up to you.

The system as it is now is good, it lets you choose the battles you want to fight if your playing against another player, if they have a PJI then you hope your guys can turn around quick enough, because 25 secs is a long time to jump, and is even time to take out even a lvl 7 cap ship if you have the right amount of units.

Some adjustments are needed. Here is the Pink Space Ponies solution!

1. PJI's need to be cumulative and we need to know how long the delay is.

2. The difficulty with anti mater should be fixed so that if you do not have enough you can't jump!

Perhaps the PJI should be changed into an antimatter eater, lowering the rejuvenation of antimatter after sapping a set amount from the incoming ships.. as an example, all incoming hostiles lose 100 antimatter and the rejuvenation rate is lowered to 50% of that ships capability. This would give us definitive intelligence as to how long we can delay a ship from jumping and plan accordingly. If it is fixed so that ships without enough antimatter can't jump then it opens up additional tactics [like nailing them in the next grav well even if they get out] and improves overall game play without causing a firewall defense that they can't ever get out of or work around..

I am all in favor of making PJI's shut down enemy ability to phase, as well as adding a mobile inhibitor unit, a.k.a an Interdictor Ship. There isn't a single strategy game out there which has some sort of "invulnerable" travel system (where your ships/units are perfectly safe and uninterruptible while travelling) and does not also have a way to prevent the other side from initiating the said travelling, be it hyperspace, warping, phasing or whatnot.

It adds to immersion. It adds to strategy - right now you can practically jump in blind and get away with it in most cases. I had a 100+ strong enemy fleet jump to my fortress system where an equally large fleet was waiting - the battle lasted for all 25 seconds before they phased away.
I DO like it that AI is trying to conserve its strength and not just lemming its units against your defenses, but I think having interdictors would add to that "oshit" feeling when you realize you probably should have scouted that planet before jumping in, because now you got to plow your way through those defense batteries, swarms of fighters and that lil' blob of an enemy fleet just to be able to get away. What do you do? Do you order your capitals to hang back, ready to phase out while your supports try to knock out their inhibitors/interdictors? Or send them in with the whole fleet in the hopes you will be able to do it faster? Maybe skirt the PJI range if possible? Send bombers only? Alas, they got interdictor ships coming your way... I am sure you can see how it adds to the strategic depth of the game. Cat and mouse only goes so far.

And yes, it would make interdictor ships the order of the day and very common in large fleets (I think they should be expensive to make, possibly requiring an inordinate amount of crystal and supply), but again, why build a huge fleet if it isn't able to eke out a decent fight from the enemy... and more importantly, why build forward bases and fortress worlds if they are not able to actually stop the enemy... sometimes not even to slow them down?

100% agree with manshooter. The game is fine as is, but these changes would make it more fun and interesting. "Oh shit" moments tend to be some of the best moments.

phase jumping is dumb, ping ponging through sectors is antiquated design, and pirates aren't fun...

was expecting more=(

Manshooter you hit it dead on, I actually accidentally made another thread about this and didn't see this one.

An interdictor vessel is a must have with the way the AI plays. That or the AI needs to grow a pair of balls.

This game is so great, I love it, and if that got fixed so I could have my massive armada trap their fleet and force them to fight to the death... awesome. That's all I want that I haven't gotten to see yet since buying this game; a massive confrontation of two fleets, where the outcome could more or less decide the course of the game.

I plan to look into it the moment modding tools appear. For one make the PJI's either prevent phasing or increase it to such an extent that trying to phase with a hostile fleet in sector is a sure-fire way of getting blown to bits.

There is a problem with only modding PJI's because as far as I understand the AI routines, they are going to try and jump out anyway, so it would make them easy prey. So - increase AI tolerance for number disadvantage (they would grow a pair) so they stay and fight even if slightly overmatched, retreating when the odds are really no longer in their favor; and also, if possible, prioritize destruction of inhibitor structures in case their fleet is outmatched (if it isn't, there is no need to retreat and therefore no need to waste time on blowing up your PJI's first).

I think those few changes should make AI tactics a lot more enjoyable. I'll leave adding new units and such to those who are good at it, because I'm not.