Spaceships and asteroids look crappy? » Forum Post by uplink64

Ya, make it look like youre retreating, while you have a fleet of ships ready to jump inbound to assit.. Then as the hostile forces move to follow you, you can use the capital ship abilities to slow the hostile ships down/stop them from leaving.

so their are alot of diverse tactics you can use to your advantage.

As for the ships sitting still and firing at each other, these are fairly large ships dont forget.The fighters and bombbers though they constantly move, and they look cool.

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Just remember Sins is designed more or less carter to the mid range PC so don't expect mind blowing graphic.

I don't say the game looks bad, ok in my book, but don't expect it to give you your money back with a dual 8800GTS.

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to me, the ships do seem very very small. you have to zoom almost all the way in to see them with much detail. then, by that time you only see the one ship and not the whole battle.

garrett

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As for the ships sitting still and firing at each other, these are fairly large ships dont forget.

For the sake of reality I submit the following:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/f000001/f075712.jpg

Why it's the IJN's own Hiryu... she seems to be moving at quite a steam... -why- would she do that I WONDER?!

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Saying that sins looks worse than HW2 is quite an overstatement... It's probably true that sins doesn't look as good as HW2 did if you compare to other games available at their respective times. (where's the DX10 support afterall? We want crysis in space - or probably not

)

Also, there are "big" differences between naval combat and space combat, specially the part that many have seen naval combat and no one has seen space combat (yet)

Reality doesn't really work since that reality doesn't even exist yet. According to current theories, a spaceship firing a weapon would most likely be pushed on the opposite direction of the fire. Moving and firing could have very arcane effects on hull integrity for all we know.

Besides, the argumetn that i remeber seeing for no movement was that since these ships are so big and tracking systems so perfect, the guns accuracy doesn't get affected by evasive tactics.

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Grim; that's present in all modern 3d-games. I forgot the name of it though, uses 2x, 4x, 8x and such.

Once more tools are released, I'm going to see if I can make the bump look better on ships; which will make them more complex looking.

Sins is designed more for lower-class computers, not ultra-modern ones. Which means that many models are low poly.

Actually its the anisotropic filtering or mip-mapping, what ever you want to call it. The 2x 4x 8x is anti-aliasing, that has nothing to do with textures.

I think the problem is that people arent really seeing the detail in ships because all the detail is in the textures, not the model. Most games allow you to change the filtering method, hell even WoW lets you change the filtering method. Higher quality methods use more resources but look a lot better, so you dont have to be looking at somehting straight on to see their textures without them being 70% blurred at all other angles.

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Artistic design.

That's what the nay-sayers are talking about, and I would have to agree. I don't think it's bad, not by a long shot... ships and structures look very nice... but not amazing. This is the point people are trying to make.

The _game_ is amazing, and here I mean the gameplay. But the artistic design itself here is not really brilliant (and believe me, I know what I'm talking about). To put it bluntly (and I don't mean to offend anyone), the lead artist on this game has talent, but not a "ooohh, aaahh" amount of it... he's not A-class caliber. But again, the art doesn't "suck", it just doesn't amaze.

For really good spaceship design, check out Nexus or EVE Online after the last graphics upgrade. Now _those_ make you say "that's damn sweet".

This is basically what I'm talking about:

WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link

And the engine used for these, while important, is not what makes those ships look amazing, it's the art itself... the curves, the shapes, the colors... you get the idea.

One last thing... the images I linked are all direct in-engine screenshots, they're neither prerendered nor concepts.

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Artistic design.

That's what the nay-sayers are talking about, and I would have to agree. I don't think it's bad, not by a long shot... ships and structures look very nice... but not amazing. This is the point people are trying to make.

The _game_ is amazing, and here I mean the gameplay. But the artistic design itself here is not really brilliant (and believe me, I know what I'm talking about). To put it bluntly (and I don't mean to offend anyone), the lead artist on this game has talent, but not a "ooohh, aaahh" amount of it... he's not A-class caliber. But again, the art doesn't "suck", it just doesn't amaze.

For really good spaceship design, check out Nexus or EVE Online after the last graphics upgrade. Now _those_ make you say "that's damn sweet".

This is basically what I'm talking about:

WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link

And the engine used for these, while important, is not what makes those ships look amazing, it's the art itself... the curves, the shapes, the colors... you get the idea.

Your point is moot.

For someone who 'knows about art' you sure dont know a lot about art in games. The design is fine, the ships look great. There are one or two that look to bland, but it was design choice on their part, space whale.

But comparing an RTS's art to an MMO's art (one who just recently upgraded its engine to nexgen standards) is just dumb. I'm sorry. Apples and Oranges purely from a game performance capability standpoint.

Eve's textures are massive, their ship poly count are just as big. Also EVE's art style is purely by taste, I frankly dont care for their A-Symetrical design in jsut about all their ships. I do agree EVE is beautiful but noone was complaining that WC3 or Gal Civ didnt have the graphical prowness of MMO's.

Lastly. What the hell makes you a be all source of knowledge of graphical design in games?

"But the artistic design itself here is not really brilliant (and believe me, I know what I'm talking about). "
^Thats just silly.

NO ONE can tell anyone else what GOOD, GREAT, AWESOME Art is(or any other adjective) . Its all about personal preferance. Your ignorance is insulting.

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Your point is moot.

For someone who 'knows about art' you sure dont know a lot about art in games. The design is fine, the ships look great. There are one or two that look to bland, but it was design choice on their part, space whale.

But comparing an RTS's art to an MMO's art (one who just recently upgraded its engine to nexgen standards) is just dumb. I'm sorry.

Eve's textures are massive, their ship poly are just as big. Also EVE's art style is purely by taste, I frankly dont care for their A-Symetrical design in jsut about all their ships. I dosa gree EVE is beautiful but noone was complaining that WC3 or Gal Civ didnt have the graphical prowness of MMO's.

I you would kindly turn around and check very carefully, you may yet notice the point you completely missed.

I'm talking about pure artistic design, and you're talking about textures and game engines (and just FYI, I know a _substantial_ amount about game art). A ship is a ship is a ship, and it doesn't matter did you see it in an MMO or an RTS or just drawn on a piece of paper... design is design, and this is what I'm talking about.

I tried to emphasize this point by mentioning curves, shapes and colors. Nexus has better design than Sins, and Eve had it even before the patch. And again, the particular games are not important.

And please don't think I don't like the art in Sins. That would be a ridiculous statement, because I do. It's just not AAA class material IMO, that's all... I don't understand why that offends you.

EDIT: Oh don't get me wrong, beauty is totally in the eye of the beholder, and I don't think everyone should subscribe to my views.

And lol, I apologize if my views that Sins art is not "the best in the world" offends you, I truly do. Geeez, some people...

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As for the ships sitting still and firing at each other, these are fairly large ships dont forget.

For the sake of reality I submit the following:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/f000001/f075712.jpg

Why it's the IJN's own Hiryu... she seems to be moving at quite a steam... -why- would she do that I WONDER?!

yes, but it would be cool if they moved occasionally, and a few lasers missed because of the movement.

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Your point is moot.

For someone who 'knows about art' you sure dont know a lot about art in games. The design is fine, the ships look great. There are one or two that look to bland, but it was design choice on their part, space whale.

But comparing an RTS's art to an MMO's art (one who just recently upgraded its engine to nexgen standards) is just dumb. I'm sorry.

Eve's textures are massive, their ship poly count are just as big. Also EVE's art style is purely by taste, I frankly dont care for their A-Symetrical design in jsut about all their ships. I do agree EVE is beautiful but noone was complaining that WC3 or Gal Civ didnt have the graphical prowness of MMO's.

The point that he is making is that the ship's design (not just the gfx) is far superior to what we have in SINS. The ships in SINS just do not look great and they seem out of place (mainly the frigates). The models could have been done better and the combat is seriously boring. They do not flank or set distances while engaged in combat, and this is a serious problem.

Yes, we do not know how space combat will be, but in combat, you never sit still while fighting a enemy. You would consistently move and try to gain the advantage against your enemy. This game basically says that if you have two ships against 3-4 ships, you're screwed. They just sit there and trade shots, which is ridiculous to see in any space combat game (SINS is more than that, but it does have that component). All ships need to move automatically because 1) It looks cool as hell, 2) It makes sense, and 3) It helps to have competent AI engaged in battle.

Just my two cents and I hope we can mod this.

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Artistic design.

That's what the nay-sayers are talking about, and I would have to agree. I don't think it's bad, not by a long shot... ships and structures look very nice... but not amazing. This is the point people are trying to make.

The _game_ is amazing, and here I mean the gameplay. But the artistic design itself here is not really brilliant (and believe me, I know what I'm talking about). To put it bluntly (and I don't mean to offend anyone), the lead artist on this game has talent, but not a "ooohh, aaahh" amount of it... he's not A-class caliber. But again, the art doesn't "suck", it just doesn't amaze.

For really good spaceship design, check out Nexus or EVE Online after the last graphics upgrade. Now _those_ make you say "that's damn sweet".

This is basically what I'm talking about:

WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link
WWW Link

And the engine used for these, while important, is not what makes those ships look amazing, it's the art itself... the curves, the shapes, the colors... you get the idea.

One last thing... the images I linked are all direct in-engine screenshots, they're neither prerendered nor concepts.

that is insane. too bad you have to pay a monthly fee for that. otherwise i would own that game too.

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And lol, I apologize if my views that Sins art is not "the best in the world" offends you, I truly do. Geeez, some people...

Where in my post did i type that? Please quote it for me...

Im pointing out how idiotic it is for someone to say that the design of the art work is subpar as some sort of authority on the subject. I'm not defending Sins, I'm defending personal choice and preferance.

EVERYTHING about art is about personal preferance. But to claim your some sort authority ont he subject and then begin to label this and that as subpar or triple A is dumb.

I accept you dont 'think' Sins design choice is the best in the art department. However, you are no authority on the subject and have no right to label anyhting. Your occupation has no relation and doesnt give you the right to label anything for anyone else; it doesnt matter if your the lead art designer for EVE or EA or Art purchaser for some rich snob.

But, if you feel personaly that this games design is bad, thats fine. Just dont throw out phrases to make you seem like an authority ont he subject, thus making your opinion seem like it must be true.

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The ships do tend to just sit ther and trade shots, if you leave them alone. Personally I think it makes a lot more sense to grab those fleets and move them. Drag the attackers into the firing arcs of your orbiting Gaus cannons, lead them to a different phase lane where you have a new fleet heading in, and so on. It's entirely possible to get really involved in a fleet battle and move things around to bring in flanking, fake retreats and so on.

yes, i do that too, if there's only max couple battles going at once. it's crucial to minimize damage to your ships by seperating them to flanking positions and so on.

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Where in my post did i type that? Please quote it for me...

Not a problem: "Your ignorance is insulting."

You also seem to be the only person in this discussion who is actually being insulting. You called my comments dumb and idiotic on several occasions now, and I still don't understand why you feel the need to do that. Yes, this is an internet forum, but civility should be universal.

Im pointing out how idiotic it is for someone to say that the design of the art work is subpar as some sort of authority on the subject. I'm not defending Sins, I'm defending personal choice and preferance.

And you should! Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My nephew draws cats and dogs and people, and I think they look amazing. Then again, I'm biased. But biased or not, on any level, I would never go so far as to claim his art is on par with modern artists. That's fine though, he'll get better.

EVERYTHING about art is about personal preferance. But to claim your some sort authority ont he subject and then begin to label this and that as subpar or triple A is dumb.

Insult number... what? Doesn't really matter... I don't claim authority, though rereading my post, I can see how it can be misconstrued as such. I'm just trying to say I'm not "shooting the sh*t" while having no idea what I'm talking about (though I very well could be, it's been said

)

But, if you feel personaly that this games design is bad, thats fine.

For the n-th time, I _like_ the art design in Sins. I really, really do. Do I need to pass some kind of test to prove that?

Point being, the art is great, but not awesome _in my opinion_. And some people in this thread agree with me... that's all there is to it.

Now could you please show the same kind of courtesy others are showing you and respect other people's opinion _without_ trying to insult them?

The world is round, there is no point.

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Hey Craig,

My apologies for not responding a little sooner, anyway I'll be posting screen shots, one that shows my graphics configuration and another one of with the spaceship close to an asteroid so I can show you what I'm taking about. Again the only thing I'm pointing here is the graphics part, the game play is really cool and I'm 100% sure that this minor detail will be fix on future patch releases.

Stay Cool my Solar Empire Brother and Sisters

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hey guys, don't argue about the graphics. Design is a personal preference. Some people like white walls, some like red...

in terms of quality of the models? Comparing sins to other real time strategy games, Sins really is up there. look at starcraft 2 even, the texture detail you see on those models aren't anywhere near what we are getting in Sins.

Case and point:
http://starcraft2log.googlepages.com/screenshot5.jpg

You cannot tell me that the textures you see in Starcraft are crisper.

Don't blame an artists work by the limitations of what he was able to get. To run a game likes sins, you need to have a lot of CPU power going everywhere. Not just into rendering 3d meshes. The textures as well, sins has to take precaution so that you are able to render everything on screen.

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are all engine trails supposed to look like this?:

http://www.maximumpc.com/sites/future.p2technology.com/files/imce-images/Sins-of-a-Solar-Empire.jpg

because mine are a lot shorter. as seen in one of the pics i posted above...

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Hmm...you are not exactly comparing apples to apples here. Pick any RTS or TBS and feel free to compare all you like, but you should be aware of the limitations of having hundreds of ships and structures and real 3D planets on screen compared to a game like an MMO/SIM

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I'm not that big of a fan of EVE's ship design. Most of them feel like symmetrical lumps of metal stuck together without much flow or uniqueness (in my opinion of course). The game has gorgeous lighting and massive texture resolutions though, that's for sure and that stands out a lot. I much prefer Homeworld 1 or 2's ship design or even Freespace 1 or 2's.

SoaSE's ship designs are a mixed bag for me. Some of the ships look extremely cool while others (not that much of a fan of the TEC ships) aren't that impressive. But given that the point is to allow hundreds upon hundreds of ships to be battling on the screen at once, it's damn impressive the amount of detail they've shoved into the game. I mean, you can zoom up to a frigate and see it's tiny windows! For what the game lacks in super high texture resolutions or super bump-mappy goodness, I think all the little extra details such as tiny ships flying around in a terran planet's atmosphere or fighters launching tiny rockets that can only be seen when zoomed up close makes the whole package quite stunning.

I do agree that ships should be circling or moving around while battling. I can understand cap ships lumbering around very slowly, but frigates at the very least should be more active than just sitting around there trading shots. That's probably why tracking fighters in cinematic mode is such fun since they strafe and fly around rather than being static.

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One thing I'd thought was worth a mention, didn't see it here; is that the Nvidia control panel can and does override application settings if so enabled.

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