AI Weaknesses noticed

My friends and I love CO-OP AI games. We have played several games now (we coordinated some, um, sick time...) and this is what we are noticing:

1) THE AI runs too much. It is like chasing your tail except through node lines. In some sense it makes sense to run, but a lot of the times it runs when it is either an even fight or if it is going to lose a colony and it should try to inflict attrition for attacking and buy time. Too many times all you need to do is get a slightly better force than the comp and it will run when you jump into the system. So you wipe out the system. Jump to the next one. It runs. Kill system. Repeat until it has no economy left and makes a "last stand" with the same force it has a few planets ago but now it is out of the game even if the fight boils down to both sides losing most of their forces since the AI has nothing left to rebuild. Also, its just NOT FUN chasing the AI all over the place as it will never stand and fight. Pirate fights tend to be the only fun fights to be had. The games tends to fail at the "epic fights" category when playing the AI due to its affinity for running.

2) It fails to transition to mid game economy most of the time. We have started checking for "credits made from trade" or look at refinery income in the end game stats. Nearly every game the AI has nothing. It seems easy for it to fail to realize the necessity of getting extra income online. Such as wasting a lot on a pirate bid that he loses anyway rather than getting a trade center or two.

3) Siege Frigate fleets. A lot has been said about this. So I will not say much other than to say it is annoying that the only thing it will reliably attack with is siege frigates. Everything else jumps out right away (see 1). But they will still run all over the place after they kill their target.

4) In the few multi star games we played, the AI was poor at moving from star to star (if it did it at all).

I mention this stuff because I feel confident that StarDock and Ironclad are listening and are concerned with the AI.

22,465 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top
1) has definitely been brought up lots. There's a pretty intricate algorythm that calculates their relative fleet strength to yours, and it runs when the difference is too large. I'll agree that it's a bit too conservative. It makes sense logically that the AI wouldn't stay and fight a losing battle, but it is more fun if it does :P
Reply #2 Top
Uhm, what dificulty level are you playing in? I've been playing the level with the 5 stars, 4 players a few times, with normal randomized AI and it's giving me a hard time. Yeah they run sometimes when i attack one of their planets, but they defo strike back, and hard, and move between stars. I usually have their scouts around real soon.

Even had a really epic battle that lasted over half an hour, they kept sending reinforcements in and a second AI decided to show up when i was finaly wining, which suddently put me in a coffin with all the nails included. Basicaly i've not been able to just rush with a fleet and conquer that many planets just by making em run. Of course i've just started playing and i plain suck, i wasnt in the beta or anything.
Reply #3 Top
A lot of it is knowing how to manipulate the AI into retreating, I'll be honest. I know, for example, that it considers capital ships very important, and focus firing on 1-2 capitals while ignoring everything else will usually force it to tuck tail and run, assuming you had comparable fleets to begin with :P
Reply #4 Top

A lot of it is knowing how to manipulate the AI into retreating, I'll be honest. I know, for example, that it considers capital ships very important, and focus firing on 1-2 capitals while ignoring everything else will usually force it to tuck tail and run, assuming you had comparable fleets to begin with
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I blew up 3 of their capitals in that fight, of course they seriusly outnumbered me, i only stood that long becase i sent reinforcements. I guess the fact that they outnumbered me won over the "losing a capital" factor for the AI. If focusing fire on em makes em run that easily when you both have similar fleets i guess it could use some fine tuning.
Reply #5 Top
It's extremely difficult because there are so many variables to take into account. Ironclad has assured us that they will be updating the AI with new discovered strategies, etc, and generally making it smarter ;)
Reply #6 Top
The dev's have stated that the AI will be a constant work in progress. Improving with each update. Many new people have trouble dealing with the current AI (this is a good thing IMO). While the more experience gamers will find the AI is a pushover.

I do agree that the AI fleets retreat too soon. This has been an ongoing issue since the beta. Very hard to find a happy medium here. If you disable AI retreating then the AI becomes suicidal, and boring. You make a steamroll fleet, park it and watch the AI martyr themselves in your gauntlet. Chasing them all over the map is equally as frustrating as watching a stupid AI suicide themselves. So at what point should the AI fleets consider retreating? I would like to see outclassed AI fleets attempt a delaying action, then retreat. I would also would like to see an AI fleet that way outclasses you to stay, and fight. Instead of retreating after its first 1 cap ship is destroyed.

Siege spam is being addressed.
Reply #7 Top
As a casual, but not new, 4x and RTS player, I've found the AI sufficiently challenging. I'd defiantly second numbers 1 and 3. Constant running is defiantly especially frustrating, if not in terms of difficulty, then in terms of satisfying gameplay. To be honest, I'd rather they didn't retreat at all, or only in the most dire circumstances.
Reply #8 Top

Uhm, what dificulty level are you playing in? ...
End of quote


We played against Hard every game. Some games we tried to set it to economic to get it to build its economy (it had zero trade strangely enough income). We tried aggressive to get it to attack more or with something besides siege frigates. We tried tech to see if it would play better that way. No luck.

Generally games were (3 to 4) players vs (2 to 4) Hard AI. Locked teams of players vs AI.

Again, I am NOT trying to say it is "lame" or the game has issues or anything. I know the plan is to work on the AI and as such I am putting forth the findings of my group after several games.
Reply #9 Top
Well they beat me in normal atm so no rush for a better AI on my part lol. And looking at how fast the first patch is coming i'm not worried at all for it to keep me busy for some time. They'll eventually find the sweet spot this kind of things.
Reply #10 Top

We played against Hard every game.
End of quote


Looks like you'll have to teach me a few tricks lol. God i hate being a noob.

Reply #11 Top
Everyone is a noob at one point in time or another. The AI just takes some getting used to. Read the pointers stickied if you are having trouble with the pirate/siege spam. The AI is almost there. It just needs to complete its research trees fully, work on its economy, and work on retreating less often.

Scouting is key for you new guys. Always have scouts exploring so you catch these siege raids before they happen.
Reply #12 Top
Well, I am not really trying to make any statements about skill or noobness. We are all at different spots on the learning curve right now. I luckily had a few days to really dig into this game.

I am more trying to bring a spot light to some of the AI issues without just saying "the AI is weak" or "its good but needs work". Or whatever; just trying to be more specific in hopes it can constructively be looked at.
Reply #13 Top
In a game i'm playing, the AI really behaved stupidily. They had sent one small fleet to one well defended planet (maxed out). Their fleet wasn't strong enough to make any serious damage, so they ran (apparently correct) shortly after they sent another fleet(started jumping in about the same time the other fleet started jumping out) coming from a different place than the first fleet and that fleet, which was about teh same size of the other attacked my defenses and got beaten. If the AI had used both fleets, they would have likely wiped out my planet.

It seems one fleet wasn't aware of the other, dunno if this is common