Do fleet tactics matter in this game?

from Sins Forums
Is it possible to use formations other than the default? Do you get bonuses for flanking enemy ships? Do fleet tactics matter at all in this game? So far it seems like you just face off your line of ships vs the enemy's and whoever has more firepower/HP wins.
34,862 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
There are no custom formations and no "extra damage" flanking bonus. However, you can still flank ships to be outside of their firing solution.

That said, it's not at all about more firepower/hp - a player who knows how to use his abilities well can mop the floor with one who doesn't :P
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
they dont really matter. what matters is that u know how and when to use ur ship abilities especially ur capitol ship ones.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
If you attack a fleet from the rear, they won't be able to fire at you. And i think most TEC ships are geared towards the front (while Vasari can shoot better to the sides).

Only problem is that 99% of the times you don't really get a chance to attack from anywhere other than the front
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
"Formations" don't matter (with computers there's no possibility of being flanked, the computer is always aware of where you are firing from) but instead you need to concentrate on fleet composition. Find ships that complement each other and pair them up to increase force / abilities. It may also be necessary to micro-manage some firepower to take out the most significant threats.

For example, if you have a very heavy carrier group and depend on your fighters, it would be best to target opposing anti-fighter craft so your fighters can continue to do their job.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Actually fleet tactics matter.

The weapons on most ships are forward firing so if you manage to hit the enemy fleet from the flank or for better results from the rear you get a few extra shots without return fire that alone will give an edge to the fleet that hits from a flank.

You will notice that the "tanks" (battleships, close range frigates etc) are always on the front of a fleet while the "damage dealers" with the support vessels are on the rear (LRM frigates, carriers, repair ships etc) so if you catch an enemy fleet from behind you will destroy some if not all of his support vessels before his "tanks" can move in to protect them.

Combine the above with some special abilities like Ion bolt and EMP and you will be able to defeat a superior force with ease.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Good post Dragoon, but the back ranks aren't much safer than the front ranks, you can come in from the front and you won't be blocked from moving in to fire at their support ships.

I don't think most sides have an ability to 'pull aggro' and choose who the enemy has to fight first, and repair/replenish abilities don't seem to work on percentage so a weaker capship can be restored by the fleet almost as well.

The small timing difference that attacking from the sides or rear makes can be a factor, yes, but I thought it was overstated as it was written. Unless you outnumber the enemy 8-to-1, you /certainly/ won't be able to destroy most or 'all' of his support units in a short span of time. Some, yeah, some you might be able to destroy before they can react, and 'some' can decide the battle! But I still felt compelled to say something.

Special abilities are quite important though, I agree there. An ion bolt that ensures you destroy a single capship before the enemy escapes may not seem like much, but such an occurence can be a huge factor in how the war turns out.

Until you're in a closely matched battle or have a specific objective in mind, tactics can seem kind of unimportant though, and I think that's actually important to the overall game. You can't be there for every second of every battle if you've got ten planets and six fleets to worry about, let alone ten times that number which is quite imaginable on a large map. Just calling in or building reinforcements alone can draw you away.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Good post Dragoon, but the back ranks aren't much safer than the front ranks, you can come in from the front and you won't be blocked from moving in to fire at their support ships.
End of quote

Lol, after playing a few games vs the computer I see that this tactic of just 'bypassing the line' applies to defense turrets and even entire systems. If I make a fortified front line world thinking that it will stop enemies getting to my main worlds they just fly right through. If they're spamming siege ships like usual they can just fly through and blow a bunch of my worlds away before I can get my fleet there. Defense turrets hardly do anything even if I spam them and get the upgrades.

Don't get me wrong I love this game and will keep playing it but how did such obvious get through beta testing? :P
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Don't get me wrong I love this game and will keep playing it but how did such obvious get through beta testing?
End of quote


Because there's nothing obviously wrong with it? Why shouldn't ships be able to fly past your static defenses, if you built them far enough from your planet that siege ships can get through and then be out of range and merrily attacking the planet?
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Good post Dragoon, but the back ranks aren't much safer than the front ranks, you can come in from the front and you won't be blocked from moving in to fire at their support ships.

I don't think most sides have an ability to 'pull aggro' and choose who the enemy has to fight first, and repair/replenish abilities don't seem to work on percentage so a weaker capship can be restored by the fleet almost as well.

The small timing difference that attacking from the sides or rear makes can be a factor, yes, but I thought it was overstated as it was written. Unless you outnumber the enemy 8-to-1, you /certainly/ won't be able to destroy most or 'all' of his support units in a short span of time. Some, yeah, some you might be able to destroy before they can react, and 'some' can decide the battle! But I still felt compelled to say something.

Special abilities are quite important though, I agree there. An ion bolt that ensures you destroy a single capship before the enemy escapes may not seem like much, but such an occurence can be a huge factor in how the war turns out.

Until you're in a closely matched battle or have a specific objective in mind, tactics can seem kind of unimportant though, and I think that's actually important to the overall game. You can't be there for every second of every battle if you've got ten planets and six fleets to worry about, let alone ten times that number which is quite imaginable on a large map. Just calling in or building reinforcements alone can draw you away.
End of quote

If you're attacking a planet from two different phase lanes you can flank pretty effectively. Bring one force in and once the enemy has engaged them, bring the other in from another phase lane to attack the weaker support units in the back. Since they're already engaged with your other force they won't all immediately turn to engage as they would if you had just caught them off guard.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Don't get me wrong I love this game and will keep playing it but how did such obvious get through beta testing?


Because there's nothing obviously wrong with it? Why shouldn't ships be able to fly past your static defenses, if you built them far enough from your planet that siege ships can get through and then be out of range and merrily attacking the planet?
End of quote

I meant if they wanted to they could just bypass all my planets right to my homeworld. Wouldn't it make for better gameplay if they had to deal with all the systems on the phase lane rather than ignore them?
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Losing your homeworld is just losing a planet, the game doesn't end because of it. You can always designate a new homeworld for the same bonuses :P
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

for ...the same bonuses
End of quote


sry when this is off-topic and smart-alecky, but the plural should be "boni"...
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Losing your homeworld is just losing a planet, the game doesn't end because of it. You can always designate a new homeworld for the same bonuses
End of quote


But you have to develope the planet from scratch if you take it back ^^!
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Losing a homeworld is not just losing a planet. The allegiance loss and resulting loss of income means you will almost always lose.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Losing a homeworld is not just losing a planet. The allegiance loss and resulting loss of income means you will almost always lose.
End of quote


Like I said, you can designate a new homeworld :) Click on planet upgrades, and you'll see it.

That will fix your allegiance and income. In fact, it's one of the more advanced strategies to move your homeworld as your empire expands, so that you have more planets close by for purposes of max allegiance.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Use phase inhibitors it will hamper enemy attempts to bypass your front. Otherwise- defend your capital? The game would be extremely static if we could utterly prevent bypassing with just regular defenses.

Something to be avoided... daring raids on homeworlds, bypassing fortressess and spreading into the core worlds... those are nice cool tactics that should be rewarded if your enemy doesn't defend those worlds properly.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
AI doesn't go past well defended worlds if it cannot get around them through other systems that you don't own. (Ok, the scout ships do.) Isn't this even stated somewhere? Only way it'd keep distance and fly past is when it's headed to another phase lane that leads to a world that isn't yours, then it might jump to another world of yours from there.


sry when this is off-topic and smart-alecky, but the plural should be "boni"...
End of quote


Then so is this, but it really is bonuses... http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bonus

Despite what you've probably seen other people write, it's also "viruses".
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Fleet tactics do matter in Sins. Here's an example:



Pirate bases are ridiculously hard to take. Since raiding parties spawn and return to the base after completing the raid, by the time you're actually in a position to take the system they've got a hundred of everything and the place is just a black hole. Unfortunately, you have to destroy the pirate base in order to stop the attacks, and pirates are a huge drain on your economy late game.

Last night I was playing TEC versus an easy Advent (it was my first real game) on a small map, but I quickly realized that my true enemy was not the Advent, but in fact the sprawling Pirate Empire. So far I'd manage to keep them occupied attacking the Advent's planets, but my bounty was fast approaching five digits and I was starting to get low on credits. Clearly, the Pirate Empire needed to go.

The Pirate Base was nestled between the Sun and an asteroid field I'd recently taken from the Advent, where most of my ships were stationed. My fleet consisted mainly of Kodiaks and LRM Frigates, with a level 8 Akkan (ECS Akkan) for a flagship, a level 3 Marza (ECS Marza) for artillery support, a level 2 Soza (ECS Solonis) for fighter support, and 5 Kols of varying levels for blowing things up. My initial attempts to take the system were disastrous, and I spent a small fortune rebuilding most of the capital ships I'd lost. The second attack seemed to go alright at first, but it quickly went south after the two large swarms of Corsairs reached my battle line. Then, I devised a plan:

The capital ships and Kodiaks - henceforth referred to as First Fleet - would be start their run in the asteroid field, while the LRM frigates and a small squad of Krosevs - henceforth referred to as Second Fleet - would circle around and hide in the sun's gravity well until I was ready to go. I would start the attack by jumping First Fleet into the system, where they would start blowing things up and draw the attention of the two huge swarms. Once the pirates closed on First Fleet, Second Fleet would jump in, using the solar radiation to cover their approach. The Krosevs would then attack the base proper, with supporting fire from my Novalith Cannon, while the LRM frigates would use the range advantage to blast the enemy with missiles while they were tied up fighting First Fleet.

Phase One went smoothly, with the Novalith shot hitting the Pirate Base very quickly after First Fleet's arrival, though one of the less experienced Kols was forced to retreat. Second Fleet's arrival was somewhat poorly time, as I rather stupidly ordered them to jump in as a group, but they got the range advantage they needed. I made another stupid mistake by order them to engage cluster missiles prematurely, but the plan seemed to be working well enough.

Very quickly, the pirates reacted by splitting their massive fleet in half, with the majority of their ships moving to engage the LRM Frigates. After they got within combat range, I ordered the LRM Frigates to retreat to the far side of the gravity well, splitting the enemy force in two - the bulk of it chasing the LRM Frigates, while a few ships stayed behind to shoot up Second Fleet.

Unfortunately, the pirates managed to force Second Fleet into a tight spot, up against the edge of the gravity well near the phase lane leading into Advent space. Not wanting to lose so many LRM Frigates - the Krosevs had all been chewed up by the defense cannons by this point - I had the Akkan engage Armistice and ordered Second Fleet to circle clockwise around the edge of the gravity well, about halfway toward First Fleet (and into the jump arc of the phase lane back to the asteroid field).

At this point, First Fleet was having trouble. Another of the new Kols had been forced to retreat, the ECS Kol (level 6) was taking heavy damage and the Solonis had already sustained heavy damage and was currently hanging around at the edge of the gravity well, still providing fire support but with the option to get out in a hurry if the Corsairs took a liking to it. Kodiak casualties so far were light (I think I lost 2 out of 22 in total), but I was definitely considering using the Armistice to pull out and try again with a bigger fleet, but fortunately for me, the Corsairs still fighting First Fleet decided they would be much more productive assisting with rounding up Second Fleet.

That left only three defense cannons between First Fleet and the Base. Shortly afterwards, there were no defense cannons between First Fleet and the Base, and they opened up. The Novalith had reached cooldown by this point, so they got another long-range artillery shot, and in the space of a few minutes the Base finished exploding.

There were still over a hundred Corsairs left in the gravity well, and they were all descending on my poor LRM Frigates, so I decided to call it a day. The Akkan engaged Armistice, and both First Fleet and Second Fleet hit the phase lane back to the asteroid field, leaving the once-mighty Pirate Empire broken and disorganized.



Yeah, fleet tactics matter.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
i think fleet composition > tactics....
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Arilias, reply 19
Fleet tactics do matter in Sins. Here's an example:



Pirate bases are ridiculously hard to take. Since raiding parties spawn and return to the base after completing the raid, by the time you're actually in a position to take the system they've got a hundred of everything and the place is just a black hole. Unfortunately, you have to destroy the pirate base in order to stop the attacks, and pirates are a huge drain on your economy late game.

Last night I was playing TEC versus an easy Advent (it was my first real game) on a small map, but I quickly realized that my true enemy was not the Advent, but in fact the sprawling Pirate Empire. So far I'd manage to keep them occupied attacking the Advent's planets, but my bounty was fast approaching five digits and I was starting to get low on credits. Clearly, the Pirate Empire needed to go.

The Pirate Base was nestled between the Sun and an asteroid field I'd recently taken from the Advent, where most of my ships were stationed. My fleet consisted mainly of Kodiaks and LRM Frigates, with a level 8 Akkan (ECS Akkan) for a flagship, a level 3 Marza (ECS Marza) for artillery support, a level 2 Soza (ECS Solonis) for fighter support, and 5 Kols of varying levels for blowing things up. My initial attempts to take the system were disastrous, and I spent a small fortune rebuilding most of the capital ships I'd lost. The second attack seemed to go alright at first, but it quickly went south after the two large swarms of Corsairs reached my battle line. Then, I devised a plan:

The capital ships and Kodiaks - henceforth referred to as First Fleet - would be start their run in the asteroid field, while the LRM frigates and a small squad of Krosevs - henceforth referred to as Second Fleet - would circle around and hide in the sun's gravity well until I was ready to go. I would start the attack by jumping First Fleet into the system, where they would start blowing things up and draw the attention of the two huge swarms. Once the pirates closed on First Fleet, Second Fleet would jump in, using the solar radiation to cover their approach. The Krosevs would then attack the base proper, with supporting fire from my Novalith Cannon, while the LRM frigates would use the range advantage to blast the enemy with missiles while they were tied up fighting First Fleet.

Phase One went smoothly, with the Novalith shot hitting the Pirate Base very quickly after First Fleet's arrival, though one of the less experienced Kols was forced to retreat. Second Fleet's arrival was somewhat poorly time, as I rather stupidly ordered them to jump in as a group, but they got the range advantage they needed. I made another stupid mistake by order them to engage cluster missiles prematurely, but the plan seemed to be working well enough.

Very quickly, the pirates reacted by splitting their massive fleet in half, with the majority of their ships moving to engage the LRM Frigates. After they got within combat range, I ordered the LRM Frigates to retreat to the far side of the gravity well, splitting the enemy force in two - the bulk of it chasing the LRM Frigates, while a few ships stayed behind to shoot up Second Fleet.

Unfortunately, the pirates managed to force Second Fleet into a tight spot, up against the edge of the gravity well near the phase lane leading into Advent space. Not wanting to lose so many LRM Frigates - the Krosevs had all been chewed up by the defense cannons by this point - I had the Akkan engage Armistice and ordered Second Fleet to circle clockwise around the edge of the gravity well, about halfway toward First Fleet (and into the jump arc of the phase lane back to the asteroid field).

At this point, First Fleet was having trouble. Another of the new Kols had been forced to retreat, the ECS Kol (level 6) was taking heavy damage and the Solonis had already sustained heavy damage and was currently hanging around at the edge of the gravity well, still providing fire support but with the option to get out in a hurry if the Corsairs took a liking to it. Kodiak casualties so far were light (I think I lost 2 out of 22 in total), but I was definitely considering using the Armistice to pull out and try again with a bigger fleet, but fortunately for me, the Corsairs still fighting First Fleet decided they would be much more productive assisting with rounding up Second Fleet.

That left only three defense cannons between First Fleet and the Base. Shortly afterwards, there were no defense cannons between First Fleet and the Base, and they opened up. The Novalith had reached cooldown by this point, so they got another long-range artillery shot, and in the space of a few minutes the Base finished exploding.

There were still over a hundred Corsairs left in the gravity well, and they were all descending on my poor LRM Frigates, so I decided to call it a day. The Akkan engaged Armistice, and both First Fleet and Second Fleet hit the phase lane back to the asteroid field, leaving the once-mighty Pirate Empire broken and disorganized.



Yeah, fleet tactics matter.
End of Arilias's quote

 

I do believe telling battles written like this make fantastic story's I really enjoyed how you wrote this tactic/battle. I would add this this plan that having a 3rd fleet consisting of another smaller batch of Krosevs. so when the first get "chewed up" you send in the 3rd fleet easily destroying the base. amazing story good plan. P.S. make sure all your ships ability's, positions, and strength are ready before you enter any fleet.  

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Dude..  Necro..