Wing Commander

One challenge will be getting fighters that can phase jump (the Star Wars mod people will have to face this one too).

The alternative is making ordinary ships, essentially really small frigates, that you call "fighters". But they can't be carrier hosted, to my knowledge.

However, when we can decode the .entity files, this might turn out to be possible after all.

I think that would be of a somewhat lower priority. We know that, as of The Price of Freedom (WCIV) fighters can operate along - but would they? Possibly a recon fighter could be built in as frigate, but apart from that, I have always perceived WC fighters to remain close to their mothership. I can recall some missions where you had to land before a jump could be made or be stranded in space.

I once made a really nice low poly model of a Ferret class fighter in 3ds max for a mod, way back in the day..

Ive since lost those files

Re: #2,

I was referring to how the Wing Commander missions (even in the first game, iirc) usually involved at least 2 "jumps" to other areas near the mothership. You're right that there were much bigger jumps that the cap ships would do that the fighters couldn't. But as the game is, if you're in a grav well, you see everything in that grav well, so there wouldn't be much point in sending fighters out to patrol.

But if you just want the ship models and weapon types, WC-like tech research, etc, I'm sure that would be quite possible.

Okay, those Waypoints you are talking of are all in one system, though. They are not really jumps, only the ships autopiloting from a to b. Of course you have a good point with the visibility issue, but I suppose unless some solution can be found to that, we'd have to stick to the possibilities, after all the basics should be established before these tweaks

Just so you guys know, modcraft.net has a modding section for Sins -- and we're more than willing to host more groups if you can get a mod group going!

I was going to post on the possibility of a Wing Commander mod, but I wasn't sure if there were enough gamers around who remembered those glory days! Good to see there are a few left... I'd love to see a Wing Commander mod.

A note on the fighter jumps... The only jump capable fighter was the Excalibur, I believe... All the others were simply capable of autopilot between nav points. I don't remember what fighters were capable of in Prophecy, but then again that's almost an entirely different era of Wing Commander... All the ships and fighters were totally different than those in WC's first 3-4 games.

Anyway, my point is that fighters should stay as they are... Only capable of launching and fighting within a grav well. That's what made carriers so incredibly important in the WC universe.

I'd love to help with a WC mod, but my modding experience is pretty limited... I modded Star Trek: Armada heavily on my own, adding any and all custom ships I could find to my own collection, altering ship sizes, hull values, and even creating new weapons... But I have absolutely no modeling experience whatsoever, and the only reason I was able to mod Armada was because everything was done through Notepad in a very straightforward manner.

But I'd still love to help.

Also, I just read through an older WC mod thread suggesting that it be only of the Prophecy era... While I loved that game, I think the mod should really concentrate on the Kilrathi war era.... That is what made WC what it is, afterall. The mod could expand into the Prophecy era, but the Confed-Kilrathi war is WC's bread and butter, meat and potatoes, however you want to put it... WC is nothing without the Kilrathi war, and as such the mod should focus on that.

Thats increadible. Just as I'm going over some thoughts on the possibility of creating a wing commander mod for this game, I find this post. I think a wing commander mod would be great.

I would really like to be apart of a project like this. Unfortunately, like others interested, I dont have alot of experience. The most I have is having a hand in helping to turn Star Trek: Legacy it to something at least functional (ultimately a failure of a game imho) and a whole lot of tinkering around with Rise of Nations. I am however taking programming (heh, Im a fast learner anyway) and perhaps I could help in that area.

Aside from that, I had been working on an email based Wing Commander rpg, and have alot info gathered on the fluff. (read most of the novels too) So perhaps I could help out in the concept department =P.

Although I haven't really started to take a peak under the hood of Sins, why dont we start trying to iron out some ideas based on the game concepts we have so far? (However, for right now, try not to suggest anything that may need to fundamentally change how current aspects of Sins work. We can get into that stuff later) I dont have much time right now to suggest anything, but I'll post some later.

If someone decides to take a lead on this, and coordinate people, I will volunteer to work on sound. Oh man do I love Wing Commander, and audio & sound design are my specialty, so this does get me pretty excited.

A thought though....
Concerning the overall design, I see everyone getting really excited over lots of parts of the WC universe that they'd love to see included. However, it does not seem that piling them all together in the same mod is conducive to an emersive experience, let alone coherent game design.
I think it'd be a good idea to pick a time period, find the game dynamics that work within it, and don't stray from it. For instance, focusing on the WC 1 era, find a working paper/rock/scissors dynamic that could exist within the WC1 experience, and work from there. Start simple, maybe, with a carrier focus and some P/R/S between WC1 fighters, and another P/R/S between WC1 cap ships.
Maybe we can elaborate on features later, but trying to mash in lots of time periods and features without regard to how the game works seems like a big muddy mess.

Just a thought.

Either way, please do PM me if someone desires to be serious about this. I'll sample and synthesize till my speakers shake like Post-Temblor Kilrah.

I agree. True a good start would definately be with WC1 and perhaps including WC2. As metioned above, the Kilrathi War is where most of the great stuff happens anyway. Now I wouldn't say "maybe" a carrier focus. I would say that it is necessary to have a heavy carrier focus. In most of the written material of wing commander (barring later timelines) the presenceof a carrier would make or break an engagement. Most often, fleet strength was not concerned with total number of ships, but measured by the total number of carriers and fighter/bomber strength.

Other, larger ships were of course present and played important roles. The functional purpose of these other ships were varried though. If I recall there were smaller frigate class ships and destroyers that were designed to run cover for carrier class vessels against fighter/bomber and take out other enemy destroyer class vessels. And there were plenty of known troop/material transports and whatnot.

Now with consideration of the game mechanics of Sins, I feel that good use of carrier units would be nearly an absolute requirement for victory. Definately not an end-all ship, but a player should be hard pressed for a victory against another player who uses one. Now thinking of changes to the current carrier I dont think you really need too many (I'll do a little bit of checking and reading later on, and give a better answer). I think the number of fighter/bombers on a maxed out Sins carrier should be about the standard contingent. Bombers, although effective against larger ships already, should be made to be a bit more potent yet a tad bit more vulnerable.

Now to make sure we keep other ship classes useful in a fight. Smaller ships that are very effective at knocking out bombers (maybe not so much against fighters) could be used to provide cover for larger ships. Larger destroyer/cruiser class vessels while somewhat vulnerable to bombers, should be the frontline combatants. Their purpose being to punch through other destroyers/cruisers and take out anti-fighter/bomber ships, creating an opening for bombers. Of course there should be a bit more to it than just that, but overall I think this is one way to tackle the idea.

It's great to see that there are so many people interested in a project like this. As for all those claiming to have little modding experience: right now, we all do, in respects to SINS - but it can only get better!

Maybe we should try and gather a team.

As for the era, I agree that the WC1-4 era makes the most sense, considering that these are the eras which truly reflect WC and can best be implemented in SINS. We can still return and add the Nephilim, should we feel like it.

So if we want to get this started, I'd like to ask anyone interested to drop me a personal message with some way to contact them. It's time to get something going, after all

Any other Ideas?

If this one starts to get off the ground definitely hit me with a pm. I'd love to help out. Though my artistic abilities are nonexistent and I don't have much experience with modding in particular I learn fast and have programming experience.

Perhaps the mod should simply replace capital ships with carriers, each different in it's abilities and the types of fighters it can carry (definitely need more than just 2 types of ships right?). Perhaps each carrier could carry two different types of fighters, that way it's not too different from the current Sins interface. That way your biggest, best ships would all be different types of carriers (with maybe 1 battleship thrown in or something) and the other ships would be differentiated by being cruisers and frigates. Just throwing ideas out there, right now in Sins capital ships are the 'end all', there's even an achievement for not using them, so if carriers are going to be the 'end all' then may as well replace caps with them.

I'll pm you, monsterfurby.

A few concepts I think might be used for good effect:
-Heightened impact from attacking transports/freighters, perhaps beyond simply hitting the monetary system.
-More capability to go 'beyond enemy lines' without detection, some way to allow a carrier to harass instead of forcing immediate close-combat fleet engagements.
-In conjunction with the prior idea, Some kind of special 'fog of war,' or some other way of increasing the value of intel.

Pretty much, I think standoff game style with a focus on harassment to tip the balance would make things interesting, and would serve to make full fleet engagements all the more special.
How do others feel about that, within the WC universe context?

oh I remeber those days on my 486 processor Ahhh...I always thought those Kilrathi were awsome done and sometimes played just to see seqences...

I didnt play last game, exept demo...some bugs or whatever...was kinda cool.

I think all possible factions should be added...diversity is such fun. As I understand some would like recreation of human-kilrathi conflict, I would rather like to start playing with Kilrathi acually trying to bring their Kilrathi Empire back on track and uniting fractured Kilrathi groups who settled on some other worlds after their homeworld was destroyed.

Anyway, I guess modells would be easy done for those who are experienced modellers, since there is lot of referance materiall on the net...rest would be adding it the game and getting it all to work.

Hi! I also think, that "Sins of a Solar Empire" would give a good base for a Wing Commander Mod. As you know, I TRIED to create a Wing Commander-Mod for Gal.Civ2, but because of a lag of knowledge an technical-support (people who are able and willing to create and implement Models and other Ingame elements), I had to cancel that project. So as long as there is no person who likes to create such a Mod and is able to do it, there will be no Wing Commander-Mod for this game.

if you guys get this off the ground send me an email (make sure u put WC mod in the subject line) and i will be happy to beta this im an experienced gamer and would love to add a WC beta to my belt of betas
ps mark hammill ftw w00t

I'm here - I remember, and still have it somewhere

I remember the glory days. Flying off TCS Concordia. I wish everyone undertaking this project the best of luck! Can't wait to see it completed.

Now that I red the posts closely, I can give some of my thoughts:

1. Fighters/Bombers:
I also think they are fine as they are. Truely there have been only a very few numbers of Fighters and Bomber-Types which have been able to jump between systems.

2. Function of Shiptypes:
There is already a "Paper-Stone-Scissor"-Kind of Gameplay in S.O.A.S.E.
Example: Bombers are good against Capships and Orbital-Platforms of any kind. But if they fight against an Anti-Aircraft-Frigat or a Fighter-Squadron, they are helpless.
During my time of playing S.O.A.S.E. I had some Wing Commander 1-Gamplay-Experience with a Carrier. I send my Carrier out to Mission on other Planets and it was able to take out entire Fleets like the Tiger's Claw did in WC1 (Needless to say, that this is only possible, if you encounter smaller Fleets without a larger number of bigger Capships).
Fazit: You can overtake the Gampley from the Original game to the Mod 1:1. It's enough to overthink which ships you replace.

3. Which Ship of Wing Commander could replace a Ship from S.O.A.S.E.?:
Some Kind of Ships are obvoiuse. Like I would use a Bengal Class Carrier for the Carrier and The Concordia-Type for the Dreadnought. But it is necessary, that the Dreadnought in the Mod must have Fighters and Bombers from the Beginning and not after the possible Upgrades.

So I think a good Scenario for the Mod should be a Mix of Wing Commander 1 and 2. It benefits also the number of ships and Orbital Platform you can choose for the Mod.
And I also say it, because I am alos a person who say, that the Kilrathi-War (Between Wing Commander 1 and 2!) was the Scenario that made Wing Commander so great. The Gameatmosphere in the later Wing Commanders was still good, but not the same and great as before.

I know there are 3 Fractions in S.O.A.S.E. but for a Wing Commander Mod you only need 2. So you can leave 1 Fraction unmodded.

But there is still the mainproblem: If there is no person with 3D-modeling-experience in the moddingteam, this project can be cancelled right away!

If you guys need a base to work at or a place to talk without the topic disappearing into the depths of the modding section of this forum, try sgnonline.com. The guys there are happy to provide free hosting for you and the place has hosted several mods based on the Startrek Armada engine. So just register and ask the mods and im sure they are willing to help you guys.

An interesting choice of factions and Wing Commander was my favourite space fighter game. Hope this mod gets done. Best of luck!

wing commander those surely where the glory days
sadly i know nothing about modding so i cannot help
(maybe cheer for you) but if can get this off the ground you have one huge fan
allready

Oh, we're around.

I always thought the series went downhill after or during WC4, so I'd prefer the mod to be about WC1 and 2, mostly. I still have a complete mission and ship guide lying around somewhere...

The idea of a Wing Commander mod certainly peaked my interest and the game seems to suit it so well.
My 2 pennies worth though is why does this need to be a fully blown mod? As far as I can see it feels this would be better as just 2 new factions you could add based on WC. The game could deffinately use more faction possibilities and how much fun can you make a mod that is based on 2 factions?
It would be nice to see 2 added factions that are heavily based on big carrier style cap ships and it's strike craft.