Interdictor ship needed badly in singleplayer and other issues

from Sins Forums
I find that its impossible to end a single player game on large maps with the AI. Whenever I jump in with a large fleet to one of their planets, where ALL of their ships are assembled, they simply run and jump to a different planet while I destroy their colony. I jump after them, and they jump away again... on and on. Then eventually, they get to the end of the line and they simply turn around and jump away in the opposite direction, colonize the planet I just bombarded, and jump away again when I jump in. The never ending cycle of being raped by frustration.

How can I possibly win when theres no way to stop this, especially with 2 other opponents in the game who are attacking my planets. This trend could simply go on forever, unless I had an interdictor ship to force them to stand and fight. Unfortunately...the phase jump inhibitors are stationary, and theres no capitol ship ability that prevents phase jumps...*sigh* I would really like to see a mod or a patch that would allow the different races to research this, even if it was late stage research it would be worth it...

Also, whats with the Novalith Cannon? Its stationary... I had been lead to believe you could bring it with you and destroy planets (or rather make them unlivable/unable to colonize). It seems like a giant waste of time to sink all that money into the research. Lastly, whats the point of planet defenses when they cant even destroy siege frigates? The computer jumps in with 7 siege frigates, and I have 7 or 8 turrets defending the an asteroid, yet they can't even destroy 2 of them before the colony is destroyed completely, then they jump out...

I love this game but I can't even finish a single player campaign that has 3 or more players because the computer is a cheap, backstabbing coward who will attack you where you have no ships, but won't actually fight your fleet unless it clearly has the upper hand. Any time they are outnumbered by even a small margin they run. How can I have massive fleet confrontations that are the #1 reason I bought this game when the computer runs away from every fight? I would play online but usually the result is everyone disconnecting until I'm fighting all computers again. Sorry if I typed too much but this is becoming more frustration then fun.

79,826 views 58 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
simple solution, bring 2 fleets =P. 1 chasing and 1 right behind.

also, the super weapon can fire at any planet in the system i believe, not sure since i only built 1 so far...and i was too busy looking at how huge it is.

also, MORE FLEETS! in my game, i usually have 1 main fleet, 1 back up fleet, 1 siege fleet, and 2 defensive fleets. that way im all covered =)
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
In the game I'm referring to, I have the maximum amount of capitols, frigates, and cruisers. I have at least 9 fleets, my main attack fleet being comprised of 7 capitol ships and 40+ cruisers and frigates. The problem is, I don't have enough to spread out in the manner your talking about. 7 of my fleets are defending my solar system from the other 2 computers who constantly jump in with fleets of 3-5 caps and about a million siege frigates that go directly to my planets and bombard while their remaining caps, cruisers, and frigates attack my defense fleet. I have to pour so much into keeping my planets safe I can't have a bunch on the offensive, save for 1 large one. If I split that fleet up, the computer will engage me, because the enemy fleet I'm chasing has 6+ caps and at least 30 frigates and cruisers and like I've said when they have the upper hand they will engage. What happens if I send reinforcements? They flee like a bunch of cowards. I seriously have devoted and hour plus trying to destroy one player, and they just run, run, run, recolonize, run, recolonize, run, recolonize, run, ect.

Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way, but an interdictor cruiser completely solves the issue...I would massacre them and be done with it, then I could actually finish a big game.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Your fleet is too massive and his chance to survive doesn't exist. His only option is to run away. Use two fleets. One to hit him softly and lure him into a fight, and the other to come in and do some damage before he can run away. You can also try to get a fleet ahead of his jump route and catch him running away right into your clutches.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
But how can I have an epic space battle without a fleet of epic scale? You would think that if I went around blowing up their planets, at some point they would stand and fight me, logically. But they won't, and it frustrates me. Instead they let their planets die because they can just come back and recolonize it for free instantaneously.

So theres no point at all in having a large fleet? What were all those screen shots I saw of fleets with 50+ ships duking it out? I guess the AI just wasn't designed to produce those kinds of fights...

Ill try going back and making the fleet smaller so the computer will engage, but my money says as soon as I blow up 1 cap ship he flees again.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Uh the novalith cannon can shoot a planet from another planet, and it prevents re-collonisation

So just nuke his planets with it. Alternitivly you could collonise the planets you take from him. Heck if you know where he is going to go ahead of time ambush his fleet with another one and force him into combat.

Send fast frigates to cut up his fleet as he can only move as fast as his capital ships. There are lots of options if you look for them.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
EPIC:
Surpassing the usual or ordinary, particularly in scope or size: <-- Notice it is scope OR size not scope AND size

Heroic and impressive in quality <-- Nothing to do with size

You seem to want to define epic as "I have a really really really large number of ships in your face so just stand there and die" as opposed to "The Scope of the battle was epic in that I used my Epic sized fleet distroy them in an ongoing battle spanning 3 systems at the same time"

Battles in this game involve Epic Stratigy not brut force in your face like other games..

So that is how you have "Epic" battles, with a fleet of Epic scale. You use them wisly not just a toss it in the fan ad see what sticks to the wall.

Hope that helps you understand the interpitaion of Epic... also remember that the AI will NEVER play like a real person. Go into battle online with others and then see how "epic" it all becomes.

Enjoy!
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
People say "ah it's easy, just have multiple fleets, blah blah" (and of course you should), but this is simply a retarded game play mechanic. No interdictor ship is needed, the whole problem is the way they changed the phase jump inhibitor. Read my thread here:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=175957#1450516

The way to solve this particular problem (as well as making the game far more enjoyable from a strategic standpoint) is to make the phase jump inhibitor the way it used to be. As it is now, you really can't control a star system strategically (nor its phase lanes), because it simply cannot be done. It seems sort of bizarre for a strategy game with phase lanes and star systems to remove the concept of strategic control of those phase lanes and star systems.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
That the AI runs without being stopped is a problem but you do have a work around to it. The investment in a colony should weigh in on the decision to stay and fight or running away to save a fleet. It should also opt to "last ditch" when the only colony left is under siege. Hopefully improvements that will come in time.

Until then, split up your fleet and wear him down.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

...Notice it is scope OR size not scope AND size...
End of quote


Yes, and this game promises in all its screen shots that they will be battles of epic size. There is a huge strategy element yes, but you can't tell me the scale of this game wasn't intended to be off the wall, just look at your fleet when it is amasses in it's entirety! It is truly an awesome sight. There are plenty of screen shots that have large fleets going at it, so why can't I?

Why, after fighting off invaders, gaining control of my solar system, solidifying it, researching, and defending it while building up my forces can't I send a massive armada of ships to wipe out my enemy? You would think that the computer would at leasttry do defend their planets, or try to retreat, gather their forces and make a stand, but they just jump away over and over, and it frustrates me. They should at very least have to have a cool down time on jumps for cap ships.

But besides that, no one has addressed the topic, which is an interdictor ship. I thought I just read in another thread that there IS an interdictor ship? Does anyone know what race has that ship if that's true? Because I would totally want to start a new game with whatever race has it.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Vasari Excavator ship. The one with the colonize and planet sucking special abilites. Also has a niftly little AoE field that prevents the enemy from jumping for a few seconds.. 10 or so i think.

Use two, levelled up enough to have lots of antimatter, and you can keep your foe in fight indefinitely.

Other than that, the warp inhibitors should really be a bit more.. well.. inhibiting.. Say they should at least prevent phase jumping through star lanes fully taken by your culture. This would make it an additional incentive to build those broadcast stations.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
i do believe that the devs are looking into this issue and are might be changing the ai to be a little bit less cautious just hang in there a bit  ;) 
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Quite a little bit tired seeing post about a coward AI.

Just a question: what will you do if one your fleet is outnumbered or outpowered in a fight ? Do you stay and loose all your ships in a big waste of time, resources and money ? I don't think so: you run and try to backstab the opponent. So the AI does.

Don't blame the AI or game design when it is your strategy that is flawed.

Try to consolidate your position, don't let the planet you just colonized without support and develop them.

In addition it is clear that the novalith cannon is a planet structure and then stationary. Just take time to read.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
imho there should be some kind of delay betwen jump ins and beign able to jump out (engine charging or something) except scouts.



Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
rfc2460
i could not agree with you more but you have to realise games like this have been VERRY rare and allot of gamers don’t understand how to play this yet as a result some changes have to be made but i must say i have noticed that there are very few close call battles the ai only hits you when its force is double of yours and never hangs around when the fight could go either way.

now i don’t want a stupid ai but also don’t want an ai that’s not prepared to take any chances at especially when it can go either way NB i only have limited experiancs with this game on small maps.

just my 2 cents as per usual.

i do agree and there is no excuse for lack of research on the novalith cannon though
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
I agree with rfc2460 also. It sounds like smart playing with the AI. If you play multiplayer do you think they would sit there and let you destroy their fleet when they can clearly see them outnumbered? Also you noted that 7 siege frigates winning over 7 turrets when 7 siege frigates is a lot bigger investment on the AI part than your 7 turrets. I do want it possible for the AI to be able to take planets when it has the bigger investment.

So SD/IC please, I beg you, don't dumb down the AI or at least create a "Cakewalk" AI for those who want the AI to do nothing.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I had the same problem but once i got to their capital planet and attacked it they attacked me, excellent battle lol they were wiped out to a ship but they stood their ground, though they still had 3 planets left. This was on normal by the way.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Your fleet is too massive and his chance to survive doesn't exist. His only option is to run away. Use two fleets. One to hit him softly and lure him into a fight, and the other to come in and do some damage before he can run away. You can also try to get a fleet ahead of his jump route and catch him running away right into your clutches.
End of quote


I did the very same thing last night! I was chasing the remnants of the enemy fleet after an epic battle which ultimately resulted in the destruction of their homeworld. They retreated to an uninhabited planet, where my second and third fleets were waiting!

I have to admit, I have never found the enemy retreating frustrating. It’s what I would do if I encountered a superior force. However, if I had nothing to loose I would probably go for it and attack anyway. It would be nice if the AI did that occasionally, better to die for something than live for nothing…

I would love an Interdictor ship by the way! Please make it so IC!
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top


Other than that, the warp inhibitors should really be a bit more.. well.. inhibiting.. Say they should at least prevent phase jumping through star lanes fully taken by your culture. This would make it an additional incentive to build those broadcast stations.
End of quote


That is a good idea IMO. Anyway, I also think that a somewhat limited interdiction ship might add some more depth to big fleet-to-fleet battles, since you would need to estimate your chances of being trapped in a situation you can't escape from. I wrote about my ideas for an interdictor in another thread just moments ago, but I'll reproduce them here



The interdictor cruiser someone asked for is another brilliant idea in my opinion. This would be my approach to the concept:

· The intedictor cruiser would be a new type of capital ship, less proficient in combat but with a high-level ability that enables it to completely disable the phase drive of any ship in the gravity well. This ability would require the ship AM reserves to be fully charged to be activated, and when powered up would gradually consume the AM reserves over time, eventually depleting them.

· In the lower levels, the interdicion field would only "jam" the phase drives of other ships, instead of completely disbling them, jump-inhibitor style. Then the high-level ability would enable a high-level interdictor to completely disable any phase drive in the well, until destroyed or its AM reserve depleted.

· Abilities for this capital would then be:
1. Inhibit jump: Ships in the gravity well get their jump drives jammed and take longer to jump, longer with each level. When turned on, this ability would consume the AM of the ship over time.
2. Reduced AM cost for inhibitor: Less cost per second each level.
3. Ignore Interdiction field: Cast upon a friendly ship, this ability would allow its target to ignore any interdiction field present in the system. Level 1 could only target a small group of friendly frigates, level 2 a bit more frigates and level 3 yet a larger group or a single capship.
Special ability: Turn the inhibition field into a complete phase interdiction field. No phase jumps would be possible from a gravity well where this field is active. Would require a high ship level and all 3 levels of no.1 ability.This ability could have a short power-up period after the ship emerges from phase, so when you are defending a planet and you see an exceedingly powerful fleet arriving at your planet, a short run-for-your-lives situation would take place as all ships try to flee the gravity well before the interdiction field becomes active.

Since there are three different races with different capital ships and different abilities, this could be the approach to the massively fleeing fleets problemof one of them. The other two races would need a different approach based on capital ships to differentiate them, of course.
End of quote


Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

I have to admit, I have never found the enemy retreating frustrating. It’s what I would do if I encountered a superior force. However, if I had nothing to loose I would probably go for it and attack anyway. It would be nice if the AI did that occasionally, better to die for something than live for nothing…
End of quote


You're saying that with a BSG avatar? ;)

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
I just had the AI defend its homeworld against overwhelming odds. Only wheni had truly cornered it, did it cease to run from a superior fleet. This game's AI is the dogs' bollocks, and don't let anyone tell you different!

Still, though for different reasons, i agree with the OP that an interdictor would not be a bad idea. One of the Vasari capitals has an ability that inhibits phase jumps, but its duration is way short, so it is not quite sufficient to pin down a capital until it dies.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
This Interdictor idea has been discussed many many times in the BETAs. You will find this out by doing a search of the forums.

The first versions of the Phase-Jump Inhibitor prevented ships to jump to planets you possessed. Now it's a engine-charging delay. That being said, I would increment that delay produced by the Inhibitors and the Vasari cap ship.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
There are a number of viable stratgies to counter this. For example, go slow and colonize the planets you took from AI and SLOWLY expand your front. Chasing AI fleet is not a good strategy. You need to let the AI comes to you. Set up a bait and lure trap, split your almighty main fleet to raid weak AI planets in response while bring colony ships or that colony cap ship to colonize it and build up only defense structures for a war of attrition. These are viable tactics that can bypass the hassle of chasing AI fleets and with that, you can control the momentum instead of letting AI lead you by your nose.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
I know that we have some Battlestar galactica fan here (at least two :)): maybe we should petition because they always flee when cylon's capital ships arrive. (ok I know this is not an argument, but I just find the comparison funny :D)
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
I think the current AI is fine. Just add a 10% chance or so that the AI will ignore its good judgment and stay and fight due to stupidity/idealism/just tired of running
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
This game's AI is the dogs' bollocks, and don't let anyone tell you different!
End of quote


*scratches head* Dog's bollocks? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?