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Interdictor ship needed badly in singleplayer and other issues

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Interdictor ship needed badly in singleplayer and other issues

from Sins Forums
I find that its impossible to end a single player game on large maps with the AI. Whenever I jump in with a large fleet to one of their planets, where ALL of their ships are assembled, they simply run and jump to a different planet while I destroy their colony. I jump after them, and they jump away again... on and on. Then eventually, they get to the end of the line and they simply turn around and jump away in the opposite direction, colonize the planet I just bombarded, and jump away again when I jump in. The never ending cycle of being raped by frustration.

How can I possibly win when theres no way to stop this, especially with 2 other opponents in the game who are attacking my planets. This trend could simply go on forever, unless I had an interdictor ship to force them to stand and fight. Unfortunately...the phase jump inhibitors are stationary, and theres no capitol ship ability that prevents phase jumps...*sigh* I would really like to see a mod or a patch that would allow the different races to research this, even if it was late stage research it would be worth it...

Also, whats with the Novalith Cannon? Its stationary... I had been lead to believe you could bring it with you and destroy planets (or rather make them unlivable/unable to colonize). It seems like a giant waste of time to sink all that money into the research. Lastly, whats the point of planet defenses when they cant even destroy siege frigates? The computer jumps in with 7 siege frigates, and I have 7 or 8 turrets defending the an asteroid, yet they can't even destroy 2 of them before the colony is destroyed completely, then they jump out...

I love this game but I can't even finish a single player campaign that has 3 or more players because the computer is a cheap, backstabbing coward who will attack you where you have no ships, but won't actually fight your fleet unless it clearly has the upper hand. Any time they are outnumbered by even a small margin they run. How can I have massive fleet confrontations that are the #1 reason I bought this game when the computer runs away from every fight? I would play online but usually the result is everyone disconnecting until I'm fighting all computers again. Sorry if I typed too much but this is becoming more frustration then fun.

79,823 views 58 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
last i checked that expression meant about the same as the cats' ass :P
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
It's like saying "Its the shit!" in american english :) so it's great.
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Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
I like the idea of a "interceptor" class ship that prevent other ship to jump away from the current zone (in our case the current gravity well). IT would require a big research investment though.

I ran into the same problem in one of my games and splitting your fleet does help. Eventually, the enemy fleet was pin to a system and decided that jumping wasn't an option so I destoyed their last capital fleet and it was done for.

When you win a game they could reward you with something a little better than just a ordinary splash screen...
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
I have to agree that the mouse and cat mini game is pretty anyoning. In my firsts games at small galaxys it not bothered me too much. But now at medium maps, and at the moment my max star system is only 5 stars. It has become a nightmare

Also there is no way to fortify a planet, turrets are a joke and bombers are a bit better but nothing serius agains a small fleet... That it worsens the cat mouse issue...
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
I'm looking forward to the "Advanced Phase Inhibitor" especially after some of the fights I've been having.

I've had one or two big battles so far.

I DID have one like this:

An allied enemy fleet jumps in from one lane and starts fighting my army. I attack it, it jumps back to a nearby womrhole. At the same time an enemy from the other lane jumps in and starts siege spamming my planet. I attack, they flee. FIRST ENEMY IS BACK!

At this point I've moved two fleets to the grav well, just cause of the sheer size of the enemy (Note: The enemy that ran away greatly outnumbered me)and so I could try and keep that secondary fleet away.

A third, allied fleet jumps in helping the first. I was impressed at first (though annoyed that they were ALL attacking me...when I was far from the strongest), but they kept jumping in and out like some sort of ADHD kid. I even had PHJI's set up.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
If you're playing Advent, the Domina Subjugator cruiser is your new best friend. Its ability can stop ships dead in space and disable phase jumps (along with a bunch of other things). It's not AOE like the Vasari capship mentioned above, but it's still handy for pinning down that pesky enemy flagship.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
The computer jumps in with 7 siege frigates, and I have 7 or 8 turrets defending the an asteroid, yet they can't even destroy 2 of them before the colony is destroyed completely, then they jump out...
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I had the same problem when I played my first game. There is a thread with some very good tips pinned for you:

Asteroids have very limited life, so unless its a really strategic spot, why are you trying to defend an asteroid?
Make sure you research the Turret, Defense hanger and Reapir station tech. Even with an asteroid, you can have 6-7 turrets 8 bomber wings and a repair station. Emergency facilities will help a lot.
Place them yourself. You ought to know from where the enemies come from. I tend to keep them tight around the asteroid so all 6 have overlapping arcs

Also, whats with the Novalith Cannon? Its stationary... I had been lead to believe you could bring it with you and destroy planets (or rather make them unlivable/unable to colonize)
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It does, but it doesn't have to move. It shoots across star systems. It causes a dely in re-colonizing so it you couple it with a good strike, you can do a lot of damage to an enemy. Try hitting thier home world with it right after to you start an assualt on their fleet.

where ALL of their ships are assembled, they simply run and jump to a different planet while I destroy their colony. I jump after them, and they jump away again... on and on
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Why do that? That a really good way to get ambushed by another fleet. In addition it leaves your rear open to attack (which is why they cn just turn around and run past you. Use reserves. One should never commit their entire force.
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
Regarding the "cat and mouse" issue AI needs to be tweaked just a bit. I remember an old game, "Star Wars: Rebellion", which had a simmilar issue - if you had but ONE ship more than your opponent, the AI would flee. That game had Interdictors though, so it was possible to catch an inferior enemy fleet.

As I said in another thread, I can't remember a single strategy game which has an invulerable travel system and no means of preventing your opponent from using it.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
I read in one of the dev updates that they're looking at having the AI surrender when it's in a no-win situation, so for everybody saying, "You just gotta learn to counter it!" know that the developers agree with the OP that it is a problem and that it doesn't make for a fun game.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
Unfortunately...the phase jump inhibitors are stationary, and theres no capitol ship ability that prevents phase jumps...*sigh*
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Each race has at least one ability that will stop phase jumping. The TEC has the Akkan's Ion Bolt, the Vasari have the Antorak's Phase Out and the evacuator's gravity warhead (I think those are the two) and I don't remember which Advent ability it is, but I've had it used on me.


The first versions of the Phase-Jump Inhibitor prevented ships to jump to planets you possessed. Now it's a engine-charging delay. That being said, I would increment that delay produced by the Inhibitors and the Vasari cap ship.
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The first version of the PJI preveted all hostile jumps inside its system. The next version was toned down to simply preventing them from advancing further on. The new version (which is more balanced if only because of superweapons) simply slows jumps inside a radius.

I'm looking forward to the "Advanced Phase Inhibitor" especially after some of the fights I've been having.
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That was an idea / possibility, last I heard, not a definitive "well do it!".

That said, the AI does need work -- but its an ongoing balance that the devs are working out. IMO, its better to retreat "needlessly" than to have it stay and fight in circumstances it can't possibly win.

Oh, and if the AI is re-colonizing the worlds yuou've been bombing, the solution is simple. Bring a colony ship of your own along!
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
Well the AI hasn't been facing no-win situations when it runs a way from me half the time.

Like I said, I was fighting against 3 armies at one planet. Two of them were allied yet they still kept hopping in and out like they were training for Easter Bunny duty.
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
Well the AI hasn't been facing no-win situations when it runs a way from me half the time.
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As I said, its a balancing act -- no doubt its swung the other way a few times, much to the annoyance of someone wanting a challenging AI :D (AKA one that doesn't' waste its fleet piecemeal...)
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top

The first versions of the Phase-Jump Inhibitor prevented ships to jump to planets you possessed. Now it's a engine-charging delay. That being said, I would increment that delay produced by the Inhibitors and the Vasari cap ship.
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Thanks for the correction Ron ;)

Anyway, I really think that an Interdictor cruiser is not a so good idea. Or if yes, there should be a way to counter it and this is like having none. Just don't use the cat and mouse game and if you do, use multiple fleets. Sacrifice the protection of your worlds to chase a fleet. This is like in real life, in every sci-fi world. When a battle is lost, you flee, that's all. Why would the opposing fleet suicide itself in Sins just to make you win quicker?

The AI is fine. Even if it needs some tweaking, the AI presently do exactly what players would do: flee if the outcome is decided before the battle even started. AI must act like human players !
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top

Quite a little bit tired seeing post about a coward AI.

Just a question: what will you do if one your fleet is outnumbered or outpowered in a fight ? Do you stay and loose all your ships in a big waste of time, resources and money ? I don't think so: you run and try to backstab the opponent. So the AI does.

Don't blame the AI or game design when it is your strategy that is flawed.

Try to consolidate your position, don't let the planet you just colonized without support and develop them.

In addition it is clear that the novalith cannon is a planet structure and then stationary. Just take time to read.
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yea this would be true, but the AI dosent backstab, it just runs some more. if it does attack a planet, which the Ai has a amazing ability to know exactly when your fleet leaves, all you have to do is send in a few ships and they turn tail and run. i can understand not fighting if they know they are going to lose, but they opt to not fight at all
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
Phase inhibitor should completely stop people from jumping out until it is destroyed. An interdictor cruiser with a smaller anti-jump range would be nice, too.
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
the Ai has a amazing ability to know exactly when your fleet leaves
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It has been my impression that the AI is extremely efficient at recon, so it's really not an "amazing ability".
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
If you want to balance a phase inhibitor ship what about the following.

When activated prevents all phase jumps out of the system for X minutes for all vessels (this includes your own) but does not prevent incoming travel. Once activated nothing can cancel the effect including distruction of the ship.

Thus you have the opportunity to pin and destroy the enemy fleet, but risk being captured in your own trap if the enemy have nearby reinforcements or can spring a suprise attack elsewhere with another fleet while yours is trapped.

Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top

Quite a little bit tired seeing post about a coward AI.

Just a question: what will you do if one your fleet is outnumbered or outpowered in a fight ? Do you stay and loose all your ships in a big waste of time, resources and money ? I don't think so: you run and try to backstab the opponent. So the AI does.

Don't blame the AI or game design when it is your strategy that is flawed.

Try to consolidate your position, don't let the planet you just colonized without support and develop them.

In addition it is clear that the novalith cannon is a planet structure and then stationary. Just take time to read.
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No need to be so negative, I'm not criticizing the game itself, because I love this game and the work that Stardock and Ironclad have put into it has produced one of the best (if not the best) space RTS I have ever played (and I have just about played them all).

And in answer to your question, if I am overpowered in a fight I usually try to make the best of the situation with what fleet I have, while immediately sending reinforcements to help. This is especially true when an enemy fleet jumps into one of my systems. Even if I am overmatched I send my ships into combat to slow the enemy forces long enough for my backup to arrive. My strategy is flawed? Not true, the AI's strategy is flawed, because they refuse to defend their worlds, and allow me to walk through and blow everything to smithereens without batting an eyelash and retreat to the next system. Then repeating the same action when I arrive there. They do this when they are even just slightly over matched. Does that seem like a strategy that makes any sense? Wouldn't you at least make some effort to defend the worlds that you pour all that time and resources into? I can't even make the computer engage me unless they have a significant advantage, and I actually stay and fight in those situations. Then my reinforcements arrive and the computer runs. What was the point of even attacking for them then?

I'm sorry you think my strategy is "flawed" but I'm not the only one who thinks the AI needs some testicles.

And I didn't know about the Novalith. Sorry for asking a question in an internet forum... I guess that's against the rules? :NOTSURE:


Reply #44 from Sins Forums Top

Regarding the "cat and mouse" issue AI needs to be tweaked just a bit. I remember an old game, "Star Wars: Rebellion", which had a simmilar issue - if you had but ONE ship more than your opponent, the AI would flee. That game had Interdictors though, so it was possible to catch an inferior enemy fleet.

As I said in another thread, I can't remember a single strategy game which has an invulerable travel system and no means of preventing your opponent from using it.
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That's exactly why I think the game needs an interdictor ship. Star Wars: Rebellion was one of my all time favorite games (and I think Sins really compares to it), and the interdictor basically created a balance for the hit and run tactics the AI used. They would take a small, fast moving fleet and one by one bombard your systems to destroy your economy. If you caught them in the act, they would flee immediately. The interdictor made them pay, though, since they couldn't run.

With that same token, I think the interdictor cruiser would make Sins a lot more fun. At very least, the computer would have to destroy the ship before they could flee, so I could get some fight out of them.
Reply #45 from Sins Forums Top
I think that the AI constantly retreating makes it very hard to make tactical choices. Which fleet to send to wich planet and which time, cause you know you had a chance, but now he ran away and woot, there comes a freaking smash all fleet from another player. This is the game im playing right now, basically all the AI vs ME. Annoying cause it's basically a stalemate.

"As I said in another thread, I can't remember a single strategy game which has an invulerable travel system and no means of preventing your opponent from using it."

Does make it awfully difficult to defend a planet that has 5 or 6 lanes that lead to it when you're already fighting on 3 or 4 fronts.
Like i said in previous posts, Planet defense NEEDS to be better, (or the AI tweaked to fight each other more instead of ganging up on the player)
Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top
I also noticed that the enemy AI tends to run away, or play cat and mouse with me. This happens even when they outnumber/class me. I think its a problem with the AI and I hope that in the next patch the DEV team deals with this problem.

Also does anyone else think that the "Hard" ai is worthless.?
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top

I think that the AI constantly retreating makes it very hard to make tactical choices. Which fleet to send to wich planet and which time, cause you know you had a chance, but now he ran away and woot, there comes a freaking smash all fleet from another player. This is the game im playing right now, basically all the AI vs ME. Annoying cause it's basically a stalemate.

"As I said in another thread, I can't remember a single strategy game which has an invulerable travel system and no means of preventing your opponent from using it."

Does make it awfully difficult to defend a planet that has 5 or 6 lanes that lead to it when you're already fighting on 3 or 4 fronts.
Like i said in previous posts, Planet defense NEEDS to be better, (or the AI tweaked to fight each other more instead of ganging up on the player)
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Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top
The Running isnt too bad when you outnumber them, but when its an even match and the battle could go either way depending on who commands better and the AI runs, that is what pisses me off.

Like for example the AI will have 4-5 capitals and a bunch of frigates, and ill warp in with almost the exact same match or even slightly less, and then will turn tail and run.. the AI is way too conservative with its calculations on when to run. I had a large group of 6 AI capitals run from a fleet of 4 of mine...its frustrating as hell. The only way to get them is to only warp in with a single capital and sit it there at the edge, and kinda time it where most your force warps in right when they are near your ship, usually the AI will then try to turn around and go a long way to retreat, and that gives you a bit of time to plinko a few of them...but even if you get a few of them..that just means they will run more.

Its like trying to stomp on cockroaches i tell you...you might get a few when you stamp on them, but the rest scatter everywhere.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry it wont let me edit this in to my last post.

I feel your pain man, my first 3 games I have quit because I get to a certain point and it becomes a total stalemate for hours and hours.

I had an idea though. Balancing your attack and defense forces seems impossible at times when you have more than four or five border planets you need to defend, plus trying to attack your opponent effectivly. I today discovered that the galaxy forge program is not the same as the create map tool bundled with the game (doh!) and that you can create a map that has only 1 planet that has a phase lane to a star in a solar system. I thought maybe I could create a map with 3 solar systems, 3 players, and only 1 phase lane outward from each star. That way, I could focus my defense fleet in one single place to prevent being constantly attacked where my forces are thinnest.

Since you could focus your defenses in one place, you could put more emphasis on your attack element late in the game, thus allowing you to have the forces capable of using his cat and mouse tactics against him (hopefully).
Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top
I haven't quit yet, i'm approaching 9 hours on the 4 vs FFA and i KNOW i can make some progress, it's just very frustrating because as soon as i send in an attack fleet i get bum rushed by the other AI, so i'm assuming they are all allied because they're not fighting each other anymore.