Making Phase Jump Inhibitors work

thats how it works already?

if you build a PJI in a system and the planet connected to it is owned by you they can't jump to it.

No, it just makes them jump somewhat slower. That's not good enough because your response fleet can realistically be many jumps away on large maps, so even if it takes two or three times as long to jump through a PJI, they can still do it.

IMHO that would be an excellent idea!

What after all is the point of having phase lanes in the game at all, if you can't use them strategically to create choke points??

Another way to make PJI work is to make them interdict a fleet but only for limited time, maybe 30 seconds, unless it is destroyed in that time. It could be a second or third level ability. The first level does what it does now, slowing down the cooling down before a phase jump. A second level will slow down the cooling down further and a third level is an activated ability that interdicts a fleet for thirty seconds. This way if we have more than one PJIs, then we can activate them in sequence. Any opinions?

Regards

Why was it (like Blair Fraser said: "Full lockdown proved disastarous in the beta so we are exploring a few new ideas as well as time increases.") exactly that the PJI's where a disaster when they fully stopped a enemy fleet from jumping to a friendly planet?

Otherwise I say that Azmodean77 suggestion sounds nice, though I think 30 sec is too little, it should be more like 1 min, preventing the enemy from going straight for your main base without you noticing because you where manageing something else (also, im all up for more research items :D). This would come best with a pop-up on the "Threat Reports" dialouge, warning you that an enemy is trying to move through your PJI defense (no micro headeachs FTW).

I also noticed something funny when I played the TEC, a Vasari fleet entered my system which had a phase inhibitor. As soon as it arrived my defenses attacked it. The fleet actually phase jumped in my gravity well. Has any one else seen this?

Also I noticed that the PJI's radius is very small. Perhaps with the upgrades it could be made bigger.

Will putting more than one PJIs, slow down a fleet more than one?

Regards

It sounds like the objection to a total lockdown is that it is possible for the defending player to make a very strongly guarded chokepoint, then fire superweapons (novalith cannons, etc) from behind it. I think you could fix this specific problem without making the PJI so weak for its intended purpose, though. Here's two ways:

* Make the PJI easy to kill. Simple.

* Make superweapons shut down their owners' PJIs for X minutes after firing.

vasari have a capital ship(barely seen it used) with an ability and a tech, which both let them jump with a larger distance to the phase lane/exit as in closer to the planet.

How about just making the number of PJIs limited by map, then allowing them to lock down the whole system again?

This way, let's say if it's a map with multiple star systems, you could make it so there can only be 5 PJIs around, so you can't lock down your entire empire.

Or if you don't like hard caps, make it so each PJI has an upkeep, like the fleet upkeep. Heck, you could tie it to fleet/capship technology. You could even make the research different, like PJI I allows you one PJI, and PJI II, etc.

Or you could make it so PJIs 'tighten' phase lanes. So maybe only 5-6 ships can come through at time in a 10 second interval or something.

Currently the delay the PJIs do cause isn't really worth anything. Even if your entire fleet -is- there, and the enemy is trying to escape, he can still escape really easily with minimal casualties.

Perhaps if PJIs were visible on the map (System marked in red circles) and had a really visible icon. I mean, even if a PJI -does- lock a system down forever, it only locks it so long before you can just blow it to pieces.

Personally, I don't like this idea. It requires micromanagement (the less clicking I have to do, the better), and it is too complex in terms of multiple levels of research, slowing down cooling times before phase jumps, etc. When possible, I am usually in favor of the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid). That works best for me as a player, and it certainly works best for the developers in terms of development.

I am in favor of what the OP wants at the top. The excuse I always hear for not doing this is that people are worried about someone turtling back in their empire with a superweapon. I don't know why that should be a worry - if you take out the phase jump inhibitor you can proceed further into the enemy system. But bottom line, you can always nerf the superweapon. I think it is a no-brainer that if anything is gonna get nerfed, the superweapon should get hit with the nerf bat over the PJI. I mean, what is more important to game play dynamic, strategic use of phase lanes and star systems, or some stupid superweapon?

This may be too much trouble for the devs, but it might not: When setting up a game, make it an option to drop the PJI and maybe superweapon too. That way they could make the PJI the way the OP describes at the top. Those who want the current game play dynamic could just drop the PJI and play without it (which is essentially what they have now - a useless PJI). Those who are concerned with someone turtling with a superweapon could just drop the superweapon (this is assuming it isn't nerfed while buffing the PJI).

Ok then I agree mostly with Azmodean77 idea. 1 min would be to much, but something like the 3rd upgrade(actually, something high up on the tech tree would be best (to make up for map size), 1st upgrade for 10 sec, 2nd for 20 sec and 3rd for 30 seconds) 30 seconds lockdown he mentioned, complete with a "Threat Reports" dialouge, would probally be ideal for the devs to start balancing out on large maps.

another idea
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=176469

Love the idea of silverchief.

Post it in here. In addition to 3 high level tec upgrades for hindering your enemy moving around in your empire I would also suggest that there would be 2-3 levels of PJI upgrade levels which further slowed the speed of enemy phase jumps between your planets, like Azmodean77 mentioned.

Perhaps allowing the creation of missile batteries or some kind of offensive guns outside of the gravity well (Or able to reach the entire planetary area)? With enough batteries you can mount a "difficult to get through" point rather than a total blockade. Hangers are great for taking out strike fighters and cannons are nice and hardy for a defense platform. The role of a Missile Battery should be offense. Put them in the tech tree later in the game, make them easily destoyed but powerful against a swarm. Maybe "MB's" cause greater splash damage or radiation, or even slow effects. The designer should aim for "X" numbber of missile batteries being effective enough to destroy an approaching army or slow a "Size X" army so that planetary hangers can take it out or cripple it. Make them ignore scouts.
The theory is, that an army passing through can be shredded since they tend to ignore attacks but an invading army can easily reduce the MB's to rubble and keep their attack going.
I'm not a programmer, I don't know if it's easier to introduce this or modify the behavior of units in the game. I would imagine that changing behavior code for each unit (if they are coded individually) would be greater than adding an extra unit that would fill a gap in military tactics.

this is a perfect idea.....

and it is realistic

the superweaopon obviously fire with phasejump speed.. an inhibitor would make the projectile stop... sow firing the Superweaopon would have 2 disable the al PJI in order 2 proceed......

awesome   

It wouldn't work so well for the PJI to require manual activation. You'd need to be constantly vigilant in your micromanagement, and SoaSE isn't really supposed to be a game about twitchy micro like that. It couldn't be left on autocast, either, since it would be trivially easy to fake out the autocast AI and make it blow its chance to lock the phase lane by sending a ship or two in advance of your actual run.

Any kind of phase-disabling ability can make it impossible for ships to escape an interdicted system. The Evacuator's Gravity Warhead is especially good at this, any marauding fleet has to drain the Evacuators AM or kill it. All the while you are beating on them. But even with single target abilities like phase out or ion bolt, you can pick out key enemy ships and destroy them before jumping in pursuit.

I'd say that Silverthief's original idea seems pretty neat. When you fire your superweapon, PJIs have a cooldown period large enough to let a fleet cross the system. Again, PJIs should only work between player-owned planets to allow retreating fleets. This could be coupled with a limit to the amount of PJIs that can be set, both per planet (one per planet would make sense), and a total count perhaps based on the total number of systems owned. This is a mix of Silverthief's ideas and others I read across the boards, and I think it would give back the strategic control of phase lanes possibility, which seems missing right now...

Another interesting tactic I just thought of: Place a couple Iconus Guardians in your strongpoint system, and use their telekinetic push ability to shove attackers into the planetary defenses and away from the phase-point.

Another idea:

Many strat games feature a tech tree that forces people to choose between once branch of the tech tree or the other, so when once branch is researched it shuts off the other branch.

REALLY SIMPLE - If you choose PJI, you cut off the research for the superweapon. If you choose superweapon tech, you cut off the research for the PJI. This takes care of the concern over turtling with a superweapon (if indeed this was a real concern in the first place). And it would justify turning the the PJI into a "superweapon" of sorts, i.e. souping it up to what the OP has in mind at the top.

Who could complain about this? It would be really SIMPLE for the developers to do, it would be simple for the players to deal with (no cool down this, interdict that, no micromanagement clickfest, no multiple levels of PJI research, etc)?

KISS (keep it simple, stupid).

Silver Thief's idea does only make PJI obsolete, so nah.

And making defense chokepoints easier to access kind of contradicts the reason why they removed PJI lockdown in the first place.

As it stands I think my and Azmodean77 ideas are the most realistic ones.

I'm all for KISSes

It's simple, it creates more strategic choices, it does not create the death traps that were apparently criticized in the beta and it does not create more micro management.

In the spirit of KISS, another way to go is to get rid of PJIs. Instead, just make the ships stay longer in a gravity well. This can be done by;

a) Appearing further inside a gravity well
Making the gravity well bigger
c) Making the cool down period slightly longer maybe by 10-20%

I still like the limited time (insert suitable time for balancing purposes) interdiction idea (need not be an activated ability - can be autocast as soon as an enemy fleet has entered the system). But to balance the game, make PJIs vulnerable to attack, more expensive to build etc.etc.

As for locking down space lanes I agree that if this idea should be implemented it should be only between planets that the player controls or between allies in locked games.

Regards

Isnt this just oversimplefying the PJI? Making the PJI easy to kill kind of ruin their use if they get attack by bomber squadrons, so how is that a superweapon?
Still, a 3 stage upgrade for slowing enemy phase jumps down between your planet, and a 3 stage high level research for holding enemies and warning you about enemies trying to phase jump through your planets, as I suggested, is more ideal (and also makes the PJI "super" to use in the later stage of a game, be it a medium or large map, me thinks).

Edit: To Azmodean77: Of course, only lockdowns from the gravity wells you own to planets you/team mates(in locked games own). Try reviewing my idea and comment it, im sure the developers at Stardock would like it (at least the fun part of it ^^).