The Idea/Improvement thread- Stardock/Ironclad please read!!

The "Defensive" or "Culture" tech tree, an easy solution?

from Sins Forums
OK, here is the post where you can give your idea's to improve this game some voice, or simply discuss with how to make other players ideas the easy solution to all the problems in this game.

Please DO NOT turn this this thread into an all out arguement, or in any way destroy another players idea, simple give your own!

Heres my thoughts,

The "Defensive" or "Culture" Tech tree, an easy solution?

Personnaly I believe the general gameplay in this game seems, well somewhat poor compared to the rest of the games, there are alot of tactics missing, and I personnaly hope that I can get my hands on some modding tools to see how well my idea's work. I am not in any way saying this game is crap, I actually really love this game, but no games tottaly perfect, and all players strive to improve their favourite games.  :HOT: 

My favourite (and I think best) idea so far is to add a defensive tech tree (A culture tech tree would do, but I am going to focus more on my defensive tree  :D )

A defensive tech tree would really balance out the game alot more, and be a good addition to the tactical side, aswell as giving more variety in tactics, and making this game fun for all the turtle players out there! (Lets face it, players have different ways they like to play a game).

1. Firstly, the tech trees will be limited!! Perhaps only allow 1 tech tree to be tottaly maxed out, while letting you get up to lvl 2-3 of the other techs, so you can play the way you want, but still not miss out on some important techs, I think its way too easy for players to simply max the lot in long games, would just leads to the same types of stratagies being played.
Note that: All players will get the first to say second or third levels of tech from each tree, meaning that you each player will always get all the different classes of frigates and lower lvl upgrades (but only military gets cruisers and stronger upgrades), will always get lower lvl economics and say lower lvl trade docks (etc) (but a economic player will get alot better resources and say an increase to cap, aswell as upgrades to economic buildings), will always get low lvl defense upgrades and culture defense techs (while a defensive player going furthur down this tech path will get stronger defenses, slightly more armoured ships and culture advance techs, so a defense player will be the only ones that can win through culture).

2. Secondly, in address to the PJI problem, one of the last techs in the defensive tech tree would be that PJI's stop players from jumping deeper into your territory aslong as
a) The planet the enemy is trying to jump to in question has a PJI of its own, and
b) It leads closer to your Homeworld.
This means that enemies can still jump around your frontline planets at will, and can launch invasions deeper into your territory by destroying PJI's in each sector.
Note that: B) stops players from "blocking" an enemies way of escape by making a PJI behind his invasion force. Super weapons will not be able to be used with this PJI buff, as super-weapons are the last tech in the military tech tree, not the defensive one.
Your PJI's will not help your allies! Meaning that you cant block an ally with a super-weapon from attack.

3. Thirdly, balancing issues will be controlled as each of the 3 tech trees will have different tactic and gameplay elements, a military tech tree player will have strong assault force, but weaker defenses.
Note that: The military player will get fewer defenses then the other players, but will have a balance of numbers and strengh in his ships, winning the day with stronger weapons and better tactics. (More ships, Less defenses!)
An economic player will get a huge amount of both ships and defenses (more then the other players), but his ships will be weaker then a military player's, while his defenses will be weaker then a defensive player's, so basically, strength in numbers!!
Note that: An enocomic player will get decreased build times and costs, but will have weaker forces, as long as the required tech is met, and is ussually the best at getting the pirates to do his dirty work, seen as he has the most credits.
A defensive player will get a balance of ships and defenses, his defenses will be stronger, and his ships will be a balance, not as strong as a military players and not as weak as a economics player. (More of everything, but relatively weaker!)
Note that: his defenses wont be tottaly overpowered or too strong, and a defensive player would ussually "turtle" in and spread culture while defending a few key planets rather then outright attack. His defenses will be quite capable of destroying smaller or mediocre fleets but will need the help of a defensive fleet to be able to win against larger attacks. (More defenses, Less ships!)

Essentially, the tech tree you go down will determine your overall stratagy, how well you work your techs strenghs into your stratagy will determine how well you do in a game. Race advantages will be only slight tweaks, as they all have their advantages in certain areas. No matter your stratagy you will be able to prevail against any other stratagy, using your own strenghs, but your weaknessess can and will be exploited by the other stratagies!

In conlusion, I hope I didnt write too much.  :NOTSURE: 
And I would love any feedback on what you think of my idea.
Please note: Im pretty sure I wasnt able to cover everything, but I hope you get the general idea, I may have missed something.

Dont be afraid to post your own ideas, keep those ideas coming!

Have a good one.  :HOT:  :HOT:  :HOT: 
9,014 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry, the bracketed (More of everything, but relatively weaker!) part refers to the economic player, not the defensive one.

Also, players will be perfectly able to mount a defense against a culture attack, economic attack (heaps of numbers and pirates) and strong offensive attack by using different tactics to counter them, as long as he puts a bit of effort into it, any player would be perfectly able to win the game.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I dunno. is it that often that you finish both tech trees in a game? I'd say its more the exception than the rule, so its really your play style and your preferences that determine how strong your defenses are, how strong your economy is. you dont have to include extra techs or some such for use by an offensive player, he will have devoted more resources to a larger fleet and weapons upgrade already. just as a defensive player will have build more static defenses at his planets.

for the pji we have another thread. just beware that any sort of stopping ships is quite redical, since it limits the attacker to just 2 - 3 targets which then can be fortified that much harder. trust me I have seen games where I did nothing but try to break that stalemate for 3 hours - and failed.
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
perhaps limit PJI's to about 2-4 per game (remember it could be like a super weapon). And yes, I think its perfectly easy for a player to complete both techs in a long game. Thats a good point, you can do alot of these things anyway in the game, but many have been complaining that defenses are not strong enough, so the game doesnt REALLY give alot to that defensive or 'turtle' player, as defenses are there just to 'slow down' any attacking force, this defensive tech would mean that defenses are alot more capable in supporting a defensive fleet, but for balance issues, they still wont be able to take down any determined force if left alone, hence the 'turtle' stratagy.

I do admit my tech here doesnt have much variety in tactics, sort of telling you that you need to play the game like 'this' if you want to tech 'this', perhaps a tech limit of say, only tech a *number* of techs? or design your own tech maybe? Say something that lets you say, ok ill have *this* much of that tech and then more of that tech? (would have to re-design the tech trees a little for this)
My idea's arent perfect, and the game is tottaly fine the way it is (just some balance issues here and there), so this is nothing more then tossing round ideas and maybe making some sort of mod using a mix of them.