Ironclad Online and Hosting Problems...NOT user side!

from Sins Forums
This is kind of a repost, so I apologize, but the situation has changed since my original post in the Technical support forum. Plus this new information has led me to conclude it is probably not user side (or if it is, so esoteric that it's beyond me).

For some reason ICO keeps giving me the message "ICO has detected that most players cannot join your game this is most likely..." I know others have seen it, and host anyway, but not me! It is confirmed I CANNOT HOST. Other tell me they get an error when they try to join. But here's the thing: I'm not behind a router, and in frustration I've disabled my Windows Firewall. That's right, no router, no firewall. I'm behind a standard ethernet line in my apartment. Further research indicates that the port for hosting (6112) is open on my machine as I can host other games that use it just fine. I suspect it's some kind of bug or problem associated with T1 ethernet lines, like those in apartment complexes and Ironclad Online. I have fiddled with the user settings to get the ports to foward to other ports used by some other games...still no luck. I even turned off the UPnP forwarding just to see if it made a difference. Nope. If anyone knows of a solution, I'd appreciate it. I've never had to configure anything for any other multiplayer game before, and I host plenty in other games.

My system specs:

Hewlett Packard Media Center PC m7360n (all original hardware except video card).
Intel Pentium D 2.8 Ghz Dual Core Processor
Windows XP (always keep it up-to-date via WIndows Update)
Nvidia 7600 GS 512 MB edition.
2 GB of RAM
Ethernet Line to the Internet via LAN (Intel(R)PRO/100 VE Network Connection)
My ISP is institutional (provided by apartment complex...I have sent an e-mail to the tech guy, but don't expect an answer--plus all and I mean all my other two dozen games, many of which use the same ports, allow me to host and play online).
Disabled Windows Firewall
Umm...I have Symantec Security Anti-Virus Software and Spy Bot Search and Destroy.
technical
12,371 views 22 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Hmm, you can also manually open ports via Modem. Access your Modem's IP Default Gateway and try and open Ports 6112 AND 6000 TCP Only.

I don't know why you couldn't host even with just the direct connection to the Modem. When I see you on, we can try and find the solution to your issue.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Don't have a modem...I connect via an ethernet LAN line. But I added the two ports to my Windows Firewall Exception list.
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Don't have a modem...I connect via an ethernet LAN line. But I added the two ports to my Windows Firewall Exception list.
End of quote


Um, does that mean someone upstream of you is using a router by any chance?
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Hmm, I am sure he's using Fiber Optics without a Modem. That the whole building is wired with cables. Strange enough that his ISP doesn't supply him a modem.

For now, see if you can access your IP Default Gateway page. In order to obtain it, simply click Start => Run => Type in cmd => Click OK => type in ipconfig => Hit enter. Take the Number displayed under Default Gateway and write it under your address bar.

From there, I am not sure if you can access the page. If you can, you will get a prompt to enter in username and page. If so, then do the usual:
Username: admin
Password: admin or password or pass

IF you managed to get all that, try and manually add in the ports.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Don't have a modem...I connect via an ethernet LAN line. But I added the two ports to my Windows Firewall Exception list.


Um, does that mean someone upstream of you is using a router by any chance?
End of quote


It's possible. Routers are not allowed in the apartment complex. Though I've hosted and played other games since installing Sins, so unless the person disconnects and reconnects the router using a sixth sense for when I'm online...
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Can't access the page...instead it just searches for it via Google and returns one page. Interestingly enough it returns a page used by a .edu instituion. My apartment complex is separate from, but owned by a local university.

I doubt it is a port problem. Like I said, I know that Supereme Commander and other games I own and have recently hosted since installing sins use the same port (6112) and have no problems. Just Sins. I think it's some kind of compatibility issue.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Just so you're aware, supreme commander (and many other games) don't use a direct peer-to-peer system, their servers actually "route" the connection for you to save any configuration issues. So its not a valid test to see if that port is open. Sins, on the other hand, does use a direct peer-to-peer system.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
If your apartment is owned by a university, they are providing you with your internet. Thus, the ISP for you IS the university and they almost 100% likely have a hardware firewall on the edge of their network between you and the internet that is blocking the ports.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Well that stinks. Guess I'll stop trying to host. It's a shame too. I have lots of cool custom maps. Sigh.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Well that stinks. Guess I'll stop trying to host. It's a shame too. I have lots of cool custom maps. Sigh.
End of quote


You could always share those "the hard way" or contact the University and see if they'll open the port. Its not likely that they'll do so, but it may be possible.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Even if the university were to "open" the required ports (there are some that do) there is still a fundamental difference between ports being "open" and all traffic to that port being "forwarded" on to another (ie. your PC's) IP address and that no university will ever do because then all traffic coming in on that port would be routed to only you! (maybe if you're the dean.....lol)


The issue is that with Sins netcode anyone behind a router needs to not only "open" said ports, but also "forward" the traffic on to the correct IP address or the data will be dropped at the router anyway, even with the ports "open".

In plain english:
"Open" ports simply "allow" traffic the possibility to enter a network. Simply doing that however will not tell that traffic where to go and it will be dropped. Traffic must be "forwarded" past any router/hardware device in order to "reach" its final destination.


the Monk
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah...well the good news is I only have 10 more weeks until I get to go back home to my routerless DSL, and hopefully I'll be able to host then. I'm still a bit upset though. I'm sure there are reasons, but I don't understand why the devs would choose this form of netcode peer to peer thingy opposed to 99% if the other games that use a more user-friendly system.

Maybe in the sequel they will re-think the netcode and make it easier for us pedestrian instituionalize dwellers. After all, I'm sure college kids make up a lot of the market for games like these.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah...well the good news is I only have 10 more weeks until I get to go back home to my routerless DSL, and hopefully I'll be able to host then. I'm still a bit upset though. I'm sure there are reasons, but I don't understand why the devs would choose this form of netcode peer to peer thingy opposed to 99% if the other games that use a more user-friendly system.

Maybe in the sequel they will re-think the netcode and make it easier for us pedestrian instituionalize dwellers. After all, I'm sure college kids make up a lot of the market for games like these.
End of quote


The majority of net games work this way, and consider yourself lucky; Sins is the first game I can play online...period. God I hate school connections...
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
In my view, there would be two main reasons for the peer-to-peer netcode in Sins.


1. So that when the "host" disconnects (and there is someone else available with properly forwarded ports etc.) the "clients" can migrate to another "host" and keep playing.


2. This way the "clients" can be expected to do more "processing" on their own and simply "update" the host continually.


Personally I would have embraced the need for a dedicated server for Sins since I own more than enough computer hardware to run dedicated servers for most of the online games today. I do think though, that the devs took into consideration that most people wouldn't have the spare hardware lying around for a seperate dedi box or the internet connections required to deal with the steeper bandwidth requirements.

the Monk
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
I think I am in the same situation as you, I can't play sins online because of the horrible ping 2000-7000. I am also connected to Ethernet at a college. I wish there was a way so I could play online.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
@The Monk:

I don't think dedicated servers are necessary for Ironclad Online to work this way. GPGNet and Ensemble Studios Online for example use the same ports, but have a different network code or something because they don't run into the same trouble that Sins does. Same connection and all that. Only thing different is Sins and Ironclad Online.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
@The Monk:

I don't think dedicated servers are necessary for Ironclad Online to work this way. GPGNet and Ensemble Studios Online for example use the same ports, but have a different network code or something because they don't run into the same trouble that Sins does. Same connection and all that. Only thing different is Sins and Ironclad Online.
End of quote



I didn't say that. I think you misread my post.  :D  I just meant I wouldn't have minded if they had gone the dedicated server route.



the Monk
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
As have most people I've been struggling with hosting. So far as I can tell I have everything set up properly but I have a question that I don't see covered anywhere as of yet.

My computer does not have a static IP and has a range of 50; so each time I turn my computer off/on it can recognize any of those 50 IP's and assign it to my computer.

Could this be the problem based upon Monk's post of: "Simply doing that however will not tell that traffic where to go and it will be dropped." Given that my IP is essentially changing could that be causing a lack of communication?

Would I have to have a static IP to set the data transfer to or will the fact that my IP will change constantly cause my router to possibly never understand where to send the data? If so, is it possible to create a static IP address for my PC without affecting the other 5 PC's on the LAN?

Sorry but my technical knowledge is a bit limited. I understand the conversations but am not always able to comprehend the concepts.

Schontak
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
Assuming your network topology (network looks like) is something like this:

Internet >> cable/dsl modem >> router (ie, Dlink, Netgear, Linksys, etc) >> all the PC's in your home.


When you forward a port (or several) from your router you have to say "to whom" (which internal IP) to forward those ports to. If that IP changes, then yes the ports will then be "forwarded" to no-mans-land.

Setting your PC to use a "static" IP will not be problematic for the rest of the computers on your LAN as long as the "static" IP you choose is outside the range your router is using for DHCP (those 50 you mentioned).

the Monk
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Assuming your network topology (network looks like) is something like this:

Internet >> cable/dsl modem >> router (ie, Dlink, Netgear, Linksys, etc) >> all the PC's in your home.
End of quote


That's exactly what it looks like, and the router is a Linksys. There are 4 other PC's tied into the LAN the same way as mine as well. So my concern now then is whether:

a.) I make the change directly on my computer itself and then adjust the router accordingly

~or~

b.) If I have to call my ISP and have them assign a static IP?

Can I just "assign" my computer a random IP address or is it something that has to come from my provider?

Thanks for all the help already. I just figured this might be the same issue some other people are having and hadn't seen it mentioned at all.


Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
Assuming your network topology (network looks like) is something like this:

Internet >> cable/dsl modem >> router (ie, Dlink, Netgear, Linksys, etc) >> all the PC's in your home.


That's exactly what it looks like, and the router is a Linksys. There are 4 other PC's tied into the LAN the same way as mine as well. So my concern now then is whether:

a.) I make the change directly on my computer itself and then adjust the router accordingly

~or~

b.) If I have to call my ISP and have them assign a static IP?

Can I just "assign" my computer a random IP address or is it something that has to come from my provider?

Thanks for all the help already. I just figured this might be the same issue some other people are having and hadn't seen it mentioned at all.


End of quote



For you the solution is A. You don't need to have a "static" IP on your internet connection, you need to be able to "forward" all incoming traffic on certain ports (TCP 6112, and TCP 6000) to a static IP (ie. PC's static IP).



For many others (at schools etc.) there is no real solution because no school will ever "forward" ALL traffic on certain incoming ports to ONE person's computer system.


the Monk
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
There's an option in most routers to reserve a static internal IP for a certain computer (via MAC). Try looking around.