FileFront Network Site Proposal

Honestly, and not to deride the Filefront capabilities but Stardock has been pretty successful across the board with the Stardock Central online application management solution. So much so that the use of Filefront as an interface would be an active step-back from the capabilities they already have.

Unless Sins were to suddenly have so much interest that the download of the patches / updates were to swamp Stardock’s ability to serve — hard to imagine given the number of aps they already act as file hosts for — I can’t really see any advantage for them there. The only aspect of storage that might be of marginal use would be mods and maps, which don’t have a fully “official” storage existence yet.

Aside from that, I think your skepticism is fairly well-founded.

I'd love it tbh. Patches of course are best served through SDC but there's a need for a centralized area of mods and maps and I've always found the *files sites to be very good in this regard.

The idea isn't to replace Stardock Central, but to act as a modding/mapping hub for the Modders and mappers out there.

Of course, patches may be hosted on the network site, as is the way with most of the games with network sites, but like you said Stardock Central handles that.
I should have made my opening post more clear, but we don't mean to replace Stardock Central (IF a network site was to go ahead) but rather act as a modding and mapping community and distribution center

But thank you for your feedback, it has been noted!

I’m not entirely familiar with the capabilities of Stardock Central, but as far I know it’s only for files of the official sort? Right now there are dozens of maps and mini-mods being hosted by whoever has the space, and a centralized place to upload all of them would be quite useful. I visited the Empire of War Files site a lot back in the day, and I think a site for Sins of a Solar Empire would only benefit the community.

Thanks Guys, these reply's are being watched, keep them coming

Well, we do need a place for easy access to maps and mods. I'd like that at least. But i think the modders (i.e not me) should decide on this.

@SgtDPilla - Please dont this the wrong way as my intent is not to steal your thunder or downplay your activity within this community. I simply want to make a point and I dont want it to come across the wrong way because I'm directly with the example. We have our site modcraft.net available for the community and it has been for a very long time. I know I dont actively promote it and the reason why is the point of this post. With that said... I think in the past two weeks no less then six hosting sites have pimped their services here. Asides from our site none of the other sites are actively involved in the community. Moreover, as far as I can tell several of the pimps joined simply to promote their site and vanished again. That shit irritates the hell out me. This is so because many of us devote a lot of time to trying to build this community and we do it for the sake of the community and not as a revenue or traffic building source for some lame stats counts. It has been my experience over the years that when none involved or committed elements become involved in a substantial way in gaming communities they tend to have a very negative impact, especially when they vanish as they always do and often without any warning. If the traffic count is not high enough then they dump you or try to charge you for services and/or run to the next big thing on the block and what is left is a damaged community and occasionally a broken one if a good portion of resources where housed at the site. For growing communities like Sins as a cherry franchise perils like the aforementioned are simply not considered by most people, least of all a wannabe modder or project developer that happens to not have any money to spend on getting their services together since they are either to young, unsure if the community will get behind them, if they even finish the project if it is doable or they lack of skill or outright knowledge. There are many other reasons but I think I have made my point. So they look at the offers as something golden and spend countless hours developing stuff and resources on the hosted site or worse yet, sites since some only offer forums and others only file hosting -etc... Such services then often have restriction placed on the community in a variety of forums. After all you dont get something for nothing right? These restrictions often have a cooling effect on the community and simply turn some people off from even getting involved. What I am getting at here is that third party businesses that simply have no vested interest in the community cause more harm then good and I dont want to see things like that happen to this community. SD/IC do a great job of hosting files (a major reason I dont really promote modcaft) and as the game developer and publisher their interests are 100% in line with the community that develops around their product. Granted there is much more they could do but those things simply aren't practical for them as a business entity. For what it is worth I was going to send SD/IC a PM asking them to remove all the pimp threads and explaing my reasoning like I just did this morning but the forums were down. Then one of the first things I see when they come back on-line is this thread. Now I aware that my request would likely be rejected as a matter of practice since these forums are pretty open and mature oriented. However if third party none content producing host sites are to be active here I would like to see SD/IC establish a sanctioning program where contracts are signed that protect the community its creative endeavors and dont expose it to unnecessary risk, hassle, or bull-shit. I assume this is the type of arrangement you referenced in opening statement. This is something I hope to see SD/IC seriously consider as a ToS rule. No formal relationship with them and no active content producing or direct support presences in the community then no pimping. I could turn this post into a very, very long digression but it is warranted in this thread nor would most people read it anyway. Again I have no ill will against you or what you are trying to do here. I'm simply venting my frustration that such things are allowed and it always seems that no one is really considering the longterm cultivation of the community or the modders.

1Spartan FF is very different from someone paying $20 for a shared hosting account and making a "supr-awsum moding site plz join!". I remember when I was in the EaW modding scene, most of the admins of EaWFiles were directly involved in the community (well, PICKED from the community) and it had a very large role in the modding scene. I think you're generalizing too much.

No Prob Spartan, no offense taken, the reason I am posting this thread is because it came up recently in the staff forums.
I pre-ordered Sins a long time ago, nearly a year ago, and I've been posting since then, I'm not about to disappear, and I'm not posting this to advertise my website, FileFront is not my website, I am mearly a volunteer who helps to run a network site such as moderating uploaded files, I was requested to post this as I am in touch with this community

If it helps spartan...

@Carbon - So they were picked as in "paid to do a job"? That kind of changes the nature of the relationship does it not?

Additionally, I thought I was clear that I was not focusing on FF or SgtDPill I was simply stating my opinion regarding none involved, third party for profit entities.

i think every major site out there who wants to cover Sins is a great thing for our community.
Filefront is a popular website and this would help Sins.
I see no downsides here.

I would prefer a dedicated sins site for hosting mods and such... filefront is a pain in the ass

Well, I don't see any downsides with it really. As usual, community sites that suck will die in the end - those that don't survive. Gaming community darwinism?

Likewise worth thinking about is whether or not Sins will integrate automatic loading of mods / maps from an ICO-hosted game directly in-game as part of synchronization. While it may not make it into 1.03, it’s not wholly outside belief it could be in 1.04, especially given how much flexibility it’ll give to map and mod makers to not necessarily need a centralized site for distribution.

@SgtDPilla - You have nothing to prove to me I know you are active in the community. I was simply venting about something that really irks me and this was just the next thread on that topic. Sorry.

@Link - For what it is worth if FF or any other "host" sponsored contests and events as well as actively promoted the community without having SD/IC pay for advertising, I would see no downside either. But I dont see that happening.

FileFront are not paid by the games publisher's nor developer's to start a network site, they are generally speaking started based on popularity of the game, in which will attract a large audience.
To the best of my knowledge, FileFront obtains its finance from ad's such as google ad's and other paid sources, but not the game developers or publishers.

@SgtDPilla - It is owned by ZD and traffic, membership accounts and other collateral elements come into play on the marketing side for advertising. Anyway, it does not matter if any advertising revenue comes from SD/IC. It is just that I dont see such sites actively helping developing the communities.

What does that matter? There's no conflict of interest here. No, they were picked as in "community leaders who posted files". No payment was involved. Like I said earlier: you are, in general, reading way too much into this. FileFront is simply a site that has mods on it. A big site. That attracts fans, it attracts a centralized area for news about the community, and it helps create more of a community beyond things directly tied to SD/IC itself. That is unfeasible and unlikely for anything beyond "Bob's Damage Tweak Minimod". Dawn of Victory's alpha build is currently over 150mb. With video, meshes, new textures, a mod could easily reach half a gig.

@Carbon - What matters is that people are putting their heart and soul into doing stuff for a community, for free and in some cases at their own expense (like me) and others are using their work to generate profits and build businesses. Then those same people dont even have the enough consideration to give back to the community; since of course their entire reason for getting involved (I use that word loosely) was to make a profit on the back of the community in the first place. That is called exploitation where I come from - pure and simple. For what it is worth, I dont think I'm reading reading to much into things with that line of thought. Anyway, for the sake of argument lets agree to disagree on view points.

That is unfeasible and unlikely for anything beyond “Bob’s Damage Tweak Minimod”. Dawn of Victory’s alpha build is currently over 150mb. With video, meshes, new textures, a mod could easily reach half a gig.

Half a gig is almost nothing to download these days. We got off the dial-up modem standard in the modern world a few years ago.

That said, ideally you have an integrated auto-download system in your hosting browser that allows you to download the mod for a given game before you ever connect to it not necessarily at the same time as you connect to the game the first time. Having downloaded it once and assuming that mod packaging is properly configured, it doesn’t have to be pulled again until there’s been a patch or update. Hell, if Call of Duty 4 can deal with auto-downloaded mods (which are hardly lightweight), then Sins most certainly can.

I've been using File Front for almost all(exceptions images(I use imageshack for that), and files less than a meg I can easily email or send through an IM program) of my downloading/uploading, I high recommend them.

I'm still here, and I'm still pimping the EncyClanPedia.

There's a problem with auto downloading for this games as the multiplayer game is not server based, but peer based. You don't have a server hosting the game like you have in COD 4 from where you can download mods.

"Then those same people dont even have the enough consideration to give back to the community; since of course their entire reason for getting involved (I use that word loosely) was to make a profit on the back of the community in the first place. That is called exploitation where I come from - pure and simple"

You could say exactly the same thing about Stardock and Ironclad. They wouldn't have released the game if they didn't think they would earn a buck or few. And if the interest in the game dies I'm sure they will use their resources to create something new instead of supporting a product no one uses. Now, i don't know how the filefront site works, but if they pick moderators from active modders and SD forum users i don't see why it wouldn't work. At least as a central mod/map database. Which they (correct me if I'm wrong) give for free, except for the ads you have to watch. But there's other sites as well. ModDb springs to mind. This is my opinion, as a gamer. I'd like to see some more comments here from mod devs and community organisers.

Cheers

We did not, however, get around such antiquated notions as "lower upload speeds than download speeds" or "cable internet", thus your thinly veiled insult is as relevant as saying we got off the gold standard 50 years ago. Time for SCIENCE to illustrate my point in greater detail!

Mod X is downloaded from Server Y. Server Y has one hell of a upload speed, as it's connected to a T1 or something. Client begins downloading mod. Assume at this point that the other guys really don't care to wait beyond, say, 15 minutes for their game to begin (hint: this is optimistic). In order to download (we conveniently leave out "install" as well which is not exactly trivial for half a gig) 500mb in 15 minutes, you'd have to maintain a more or less constant download speed of 555kb/s. I dunno about you, but unless I'm torrenting something I usually don't get those kind of speeds from even a server.

Now let's apply that to a peer system, as stated above. To get a 555kb/s upload speed, you've gotta have some pretty good tubes. Remember, kbps != kb/s. Even regular FIOS, with its 2mbps upload speed, is less than half the speed we need. Let's not even get into install time, packet loss, "marketed" upload speed much higher than actual speed, multiple downloaders and any other mitigating factors, as I think you get the point.

In summary, no.

Since no one here has the ability to think oh why don't I actually look up the site before judging it I'll look it up and then you look at it:
http://armada2.filefront.com/

As you can see there is minimal advertisements and they actually link mods in right hand side and have downloads and what not on the left.

P.S. And before you even dare think about saying "it probably has a fee," why don't you use more than that 0.001% of that brain and LOOK, yes I know its difficult, I know theres a possibility of passing out due to to much brain activity but its worth the risk.