AI Needs LOTS of work.

Very sad

from Sins Forums

I've played a number of games both solo and with my roommate... And we've both noticed the same major issues.  The AI in Sins is down right stupid... Several very simple "facts" are present in all actions by the AI.

The AI does two things in this game...

1)  Runs from larger fleets... and continues to run even if the AI is down to a single home planet... it will not defend... Just run.  This is not "strategy" or "tactics" its just lazy programming...  The AI should stand and fight... and retreat damaged ships to friendly systems as needed... Running the entire fleet away from system to system does nothing but annoy the players in the game.

2)  Massive siege fleets.  While these "can" be prevents or destroyed with a few ships and system defense buildings... its a lame strat.  Siege craft should be VERY weak and easily destroyed if not defended.  Its gotten to the point we don't even bother playing Sins anymore as we're fed up with trying to defend EVERY single planet in our "empire" against the AI (or another players) siege fleets. 

Siege craft need to be weakened (not the damage... but the HP/Armor/Shields).  These units should be nearly defenseless and vulnerable to direct attack.  They should be used as "support" units brought in after the main fight is over.. to 'siege' the planet...   Not as a primary attack force that suicides a planent.. destroying the ground structures and then running away.

I recall reading that the AI in this game was "too easy" and I find it sad that the only fix for this was to create hit-n-run siege fleets to annoy players endlessly.  If they AI put as much resources into building normal fleets as it does into siege craft... I might actually have problems destroying hard AIs!

14,499 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

1) Agreed and hopefully this will be addressed with the v1.03 update.

2) Yes, the AI doesn't seem to take into account that mass siege craft is really a bad idea. They're incredibly easy to deal with too - just setup some turrets and build a hangar bay with fighter craft (fighters shred siege craft).

Ironclad will be continuously updating the AI as we put out new patches, so you should expect things to continue getting better. ;)

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Ironclad will be continuously updating the AI as we put out new patches, so you should expect things to continue getting better.
End of quote


Fantastic news.

I would have been surprised if the AI had been perfect from the get go. Few games ever get it spot on right off the bat. Knowing you guys are going to be targeting this area specifically in future patches just further confirms what a good idea it is to support the companies involved.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm confident IC is already on most of these, but for my own satisfaction, other things good for the AI would be:

1. Increase priority to target enemy builders *when building* (or just in general, if that's too hard). It's way too easy to have a never-ending chain of turrets leading an enemy fleet around and around and around...

2. Cap neutral extractors (!).

3. Check for undefended sections of systems for priority hits - so in the absence of enemy fleets, check for civilian structures out of range of turrets, kill those first, THEN target turrets. Same thing for bombers - check for an undefended section of planet to bomb from, not just at the closest edge.

4. Give the AI fleets more chance of going through multiple systems - perhaps have poorly defended systems, or areas with lots of civilian structures out of range of turrets (see #3), "marked" by fleets or scouts, and have the occasional raiding fleet split off from the main fleet (eg, percentage chance, higher for aggressive AI, to split 5-25% of its fleet) just to run from system to system trashing structures. Give a low retreat threshold to avoid much resistance, but with a chance (say 50-50) to retreat *forward* to the next marked system instead of home. Players do it, so should the AI.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
SmellyTerror - While I enjoy the idea of a "smart" AI. I hate cheating. I'm sick of developers who resort to "cheating" the AI rather than programming one with proper tactics. For most games, if the AI is to attack lightly or undefended systems... it will do so w/o having scouted or explored that area. The computer just "knows" where/what everything is at all times.

Take Comapny of Heroes for example... I'm sure many will agree it was one of the biggest/best RTS titles to be released in quite some time. I personally wasn't a huge fan but it was still a great game.

Anyway, the AI, aside from normal attacks will branch out and capture any and all resources on the map with single units that run around the map throughout the duration of the skirmish. As the player is unable to control every unit on the game at all times, the player cannot employ a similar strat. If you capture a resource node and leave it un-defended the computer will cap it within minutes. However the computer is free to leave endless nodes undefended... Because the player just simple can't micro-manage that many units (on top of micro-managing multiple battles elsewhere on the map)


My point being... If I didn't make it clear enough. The AI programming needs to be done carefully. Simply programming it to attack undefended sectors, or do hit-n-run missions against lightly or undefended structures is whats ruined the current game.

I fixed the game for my roommate and I by reducing HP/Shields of siege craft to like 200. They still do full (or extra damage)... but they cannot be used to swarm planets and retreat.

They are SUPPORT craft that should be used to "finish" off a planet after the primary fleet has destroyed all defenses. Not as a primary attack force used to annoy a player by destroying just the planet and leaving all other structures in tact.

Another change i've made recently was to DOUBLE all weapon damage on all ships in the game. It speeds up combat and makes EVERYTHING much more interesting. Its quite boring to sit around for 20 min watching a large battle with most all abilities on auto-cast or out of anti-matter.

With Double Damage, the player must now manage units sparingly as they're much easier to kill and if you aren't careful you can lose half a fleet very quickly...