Asking for objectivity in an area that is defined by subjectivity won't get you far. What's fun for me won't be fun for you, and trying to convince anyone about it is a futile effort doomed to failure. I'm one of those that think it's one of the best strategy games ever made. Why? Because I haven't had that much fun in playing a game since Civ3, SMAC, or pehaps MOO2. It's simple as that. Is it a compelling arguement, that convince someone who doesn't like the game to change his opinion? No, it's not. But there's no arguement that can convince someone to change his opinion about what he haves fun with. If it existed, and I knew it, then I'd make a crappy low budget game, convince everyone and their dog that it's fun, and watch the cash flow in as it'd outsold the Bible.

So, if you expect an objective opinion about why this game is the greatest, or even greater than *Insert your favourite game here*, then just forget this whole thing, walk away, and go play *Insert your favourite game here*. Believe me, it's going to be better for everyone involved.

I don't see this game as the BEST game. But i can definiely say it's one of the tops.
However, plz consider that this game has JUST came out.
I do believe SOASE's got a bright future. With it's modding features, a very flexible platform, and a brilliant developement group. New elements and features will come out successively, strengthening it's standing in RTS gaming.

I'm hoping/expecting the ai to get some work. I'm also not finding it so difficult at hard levels.

What I really enjoy is the challenge of playing mp.

The simplest answer to the question as i see it, is that Sins represents a kind of holy grail of RTS/4X games that has (up until now) never been reached. The game maybe a new genre in and of it self. The fuzzy lines of game evolution can be hard to clearly see.

So even as Sins might not be the kind of game the sends your synapses into a gaming overload most people who have played games for much of their lives or are in the reviewing world are aware that they are witnessing something new / interesting / different (what ever supperlative you want to use). This is the "type" of game that many have tried and some even come close (hegemonia anybody?) but never before did it feel like it was a reliable format for a game until sins. Also it is the kind of game we have all desperately wanted.

In short the thing that Sins does that gives it such high praise is that sins the first 4x/RTS blend that was fun to play. Thereby convincing many people that the very concept has, what they would call in the movie industry "legs."

Sins is 2 things 1)a good fun game and 2)something unique - those two things always make something better then the sum of its parts. see: Katamari

Erm, so why say, "I am merely asking people to convince me that Sins is worthy of the praise it seems to be receiving on this board"? (Emphasis mine.)


Not when you seem to define people who like the game as not being objective.

I know what else I like!!!

The endgame graphs. I luvs the graphs! And tons of them!

And the achievements! Can't forget those!

You forgot Space Ponies

Sitros, you miss my point. I have seen a ton of posts that say "this game is the greatest ever" and read lots of reviews that seem to sort of say positive things without getting too specific.

I am looking for individual people's reasons for loving the game, that's it. I understand the concepts of object and subject-ivity, trust me.

BigBad, anything to actually contribute beyond being an awesome forum warrior?

There you go again with the personal attacks. For someone who says he wants an objective discussion, you sure do pick a lot of fights.

And you sure do try hard to derail threads.

Mods, just close it, forget it, this is going nowhere.

It sounds like you aren't likely to be convinced by anything we might post here. If you really want to find out if the game is deserving of the praise I would advise you to join a clan with some longer term players, as playing with them will scratch below the surface of lrm spam etc and show how deep the strategy really goes.

I can't really comment on singlepayer though; I tried a couple of games but missed having a teammate.

Have fun!

Not really. Had you called the thread something like 'Why do you like Sins?' and just posted something like 'I'm just curious what individual people's reasons for loving the game are?', then this thread might have gone a very different way.

Instead, you started with a troll post that was bound to provoke a reaction from someone, then complain and act hurt when someone reacts (another classic troll tactic).

And yes, I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but I'm tired and couldn't resist.

Efexeye, the problem is you're asking for an objective discussion about subjective opinions. Also, asking why it got an 88% at metacritic when you felt it shouldn't have is a hopeless cause. Sometimes personal tastes fall outside the masses, I know that's true of me.

Having said that, I agree with you. My friend and I bought the game....and we were both kinda disappointed. I've been pretty mum about it here because quite frankly, these forums are as close as you can get to the "home turf" so you can expect a lot of fanboism and ultra-defensiveness. But since you've started it off, I'll chime in. Still, I haven't written the game off as a lost cause yet, so I'm trying to mod it to our tastes.

My issues with it: I thought there'd be more 4x elements to it. It's not nearly as in-depth as I thought it'd be, and leans more towards RTS. The trade, politics, and economy is pretty shallow. I understand it's not supposed to *be* a 4x game, but it doesn't really seem all that much more complex than Rise of Nations was. Therefore, I can't really justify putting away so much time for what's really just an RTS with a huge tech tree.

So I've lightly modified the game to go faster (each game speed roughly doubles the previous setting, so I just made one that doubled the fastest setting that's included with the game). Tested it out with my friend, and it was much better, a 2 hr game for a 2v2.

So then that leads me to the RTS side of it. Tactically, combat isn't very interesting, although it is incredible to watch. I think Company of Heroes ruined all other RTS's for me, having one of the best tactical combat systems in an RTS I've played yet. Obviously, there is no cover in space, so I can't expect the same type of positional tactics in Sins, but I was hoping for combat that required a little more tactics.

I'm not asking for Homeworld, because controlling units in 3d space can become a nightmare real fast, but Sins is already de facto 2D anyway. Nor am I asking for the crazy micro of War3 where if you're not on PCP you've already lost. But I definitely don't want the "waves of men" type of gameplay where I just build huge fleets and "send them that way" without much involvement on my part. That was great when I was a kid, but it's just a mite boring these days.

Anyway, I'm going to tweak the ship values a bit, and hopefully can make the combat a little more interesting.

Some reasons why sins is fantastariffic IMO...Killer AI (and just wait till it gets a few patches under it's belt, the gc and gc2 people will know what I'm saying) the pacing is wonderful, people, wrongly I think, keep on calling it 4xrts when it's appeal from a strategy nerd's perspective is a 4x without a turn button. those are my 2c

End of Thread +1

[ self-deleted : "feeding trolls" by counter-trolling can be seen as trolling ]