LordEngelbert LordEngelbert

Vasari - DA/RA controversy

Vasari - DA/RA controversy

This is a vague link from the superweapons post i made before (thanks for replying btw).
With the whole superweapon fiasco, we have decided to ban them in our LANs.
--BUT!!!(and its a big one, i cannot lie)--
The Ban-Stick has not been put away just yet.
I play Vasari as we nearly exclusively play large maps (1 star, 50-60 planets) and there is a general consensus (and a lack of ability due to the time involved) that rushing is off the agenda, leaving people to make their fleets and generally go about their lives in a peaceful manner until some loose cannon starts something.
However, after around 10 games there are rumblings of discontent in the masses (oh no).  Especially tonight there seems to be a campaign of hate against ye olde Returning Armada.  Claims of "hax" and "superweapon" can be heard everywhere and it's getting tiring.  On top of this someone has decided that the phase gates are also unfair and are now probably aiming to get them unofficially "banned" too.  Why?!

Their reasoning is as follows:
1) "Free ships?! WTF! HAX!" - allegedly gaining something for 'free' despite spending insane amounts of resources on a) getting to the stage where you can develop it b) actually developing it and c) building the gates that allow you to (finally) use what you have developed, is a completely criminal act.  After all, no one likes a free-rider, especially one that has already pre-paid.
2) "We have banned superweapons, that there is a superweapon and so, should be banned!" - Sound logic indeed, but i believe the superweapon (yes, WEAPON, not ability) for the Vasari is a gun of the size to make every Freudian psychologist reach for their pen and paper.  It is a big gun, maybe thats stretching the definition of 'superweapon' a bit, but if i had a gun that big i would think it was a weapon...and fairly super too...as would NATO.  It is in the Civic tech tree, not the military.  Besides, the TEC version (Pervasive Economy?) generates so much cash that the ships might as well be free.  Sadly, because TEC is the most popular race no one is about to declare the fact that getting shedloads of cash for free is unfair.  So no ban for the TEC.
3)  "Hmm, the ability to move your units around the map between these phase gates gives you an advantage I don't have.  I fear a banning may be in order...!"  Yes, an advantage you don't have, because if you did have it, it wouldn't be an advantage.  This is why the species are different, so we don't all play the same generic species and spam each other with Scout units...(Bercause everything else has been considered unfair and overpowered and so, brutalised with the ban stick (repeatedly)).  Also the phase gates, you have to pay for and the fact that they take up many a tactical slot is not to be overlooked either!  The transport isn't exactly instant either.  It's just a more direct route.  If these are banned then whats the point in playing Vasari.  That is what they do.  They get to transport everywhere.  It's their party trick.  LEAVE IT ALONE!  Other abilities of other races balance it out.

Thats about it I think.  Sorry to rant.  I know I will get one helluva flaming for this but i'm not stating it as fact, merely as a collection of opinions about what people are saying about the RA to me.  But if the banning of RA occurs then surely the TEC economy doo-dah will go...then the phase gates, then I will demand that TEC lose their trade centres and the Advent lose their culture abilities or something, and the game descends into a pit of boring frigate spams interupted by the one cruiser that a TEC player has managed to build with their now crippled economy...As if mine wasn't when i was saving for the RA...
So, please suggest counter strategies that my fellow gamers can use (without 'superweapons') to defeat this dreadful ploy im using...
Regards and apologies, LE.
21,779 views 54 replies
Reply #51 Top
I would like to discuss a replay from a game I just played, if you like....I would like to know if someone thinks there really was a chance to defeat the Vasari player after orange drops.
End of quote


First off, this is an unbalanced scenario to begin with, because you had multiple players in a ffa (two of whom left the game), and you were initially cooperating with the red vasari. The game is not balanced for such a scenario, it is balanced for 1v1. How could you possibly balance a game around a such a 4 player ffa?

Second off, the red vasari was left alone for too long to tech to dark armada. What else do you expect under those circumstances? You could have taken him out of the game earlier, instead of cooperating with him. Now, there is no problem in deciding to cooperate with an opponent, but you have to be willing to live with that decision later if it doesn't work out, ESPECIALLY when you are playing an unbalanced scenario.

Third off, someone really needs to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe destroying an imperial lab structure WILL stop the dark armada spawn, up until he gets another lab up. Can someone confirm?
Reply #52 Top
I beleive that is true for all SWs AoK; a couple hit and runs on labs stops the ability to build SW/DA until you have 8 or more I beleive.



Reply #53 Top
Correct cookie for PP.
Reply #54 Top
RA realy in my opinions will not sway the battle one way or another. Likely whoever has won more skirmishs leading up to the late in the game will come out on top. Hate to use an overly exagerated expample as this but... If a TEC player with some Kols has been wining battle after small battle agaisnt you, and works up to the high 7-10 lvl range with his battleships. There is likely no amount of returing armada that is gonna save you. Likewise if you have been wining all day long, the most RA is gonna do for you is maybe help push that last breath out of your dieing enemy.

On a side note i personaly feel they have done a great job in the ballance of this game, and any kicking and screaming about overpowered this or that makes me sick. It likely stems from the fact that battles tend to last many long hours. So is often hard for anyone to figure out where they went wrong, why someone out played them, or how they had more reasources. In the end when the other player wins you cry 'cheater' or 'unfair' over something lame like superweapons(which are all just barely a punch in the eye to a large emire).

-RR