hmm i quoted the wrong thing in one of my posts.

this response: errr i never once said that he too thinks the game is boring. thats what i think of the game. ill explain why then. i find the game too easy. combat is dull which is another main reason and also because races are basically the same.

is to this:



so lets just point out whats wrong with the op and get him to like the game shall we.

the essential ? of this thread

Specop007, Moo2 is a darn hard act to follow for any game! And Sins is a very new game, just released.

Galactic Civilizations II is much closer to Moo2, and the latest expansion for it, Wrath of the Arnor, will be out in April, 2008. You might consider setting aside Sins until it gets a few more patch levels and playing Galactic Civilizations instead.

Perhaps, but maybe we could help him through his problems? As in, get him to like the game (as you say) by giving him help?

Okay, we can all rationalize, but the AI does gang up against human players as it's very difficult to do missions. The game isn't "horrible" because of it, it just needs a tweak.

Meanwhile, just play MP on no-pirates maps.

I'm wondering whether I'm playing the same game as you.

The races are by no means the same at all. They all have different strengths and weaknesses in multiple areas, from their ship abilities to their economies to their technology. While many of these differences can be quite subtle, the interplay between them creates major variations in each race and how they play, and thus the strategies that are effective with each.

I agree that the differences may not jump off the screen at you, but the more you play and learn about the game, the more significant they become.


Again, I can't help wondering what game you're playing. Fleet size and composition make a significant difference to what tactics will be effective, and your decisions during a battle can greatly affect the outcome.


On the contrary, this is exactly the reason I've been getting more and more tired of the click-fest of 'standard' RTS games, and why Sins comes as a breath of fresh air. It's a real-time game with real strategic depth and variety.


This is the only thing I agree with, to some extent - I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a joke, but it's not as tough as I'd like it to be. However, the devs are aware of this and the next patch is planned to include the first of what I expect will be many improvements to the AI.


On the contrary, I suspect that the IGN reviewer played a lot more than five games, and it's you who haven't played enough to really appreciate the game. IGN is far from the only place to give it a good review - it's averaging 89% on Metacritic and 90% on GameRankings, and the lowest score I've seen it receive is 80%. Or do you think that every strategy game reviewer in the entire industry is incompetent?

That said, everyone's mileage varies, and it may just be that Sins isn't the game for you and your friends. That's fine - it would be a dull world if we all liked the same things - but it doesn't mean that the game itself is bad, just that it's not to your taste.

Well, why is it horrible? These kind of comments tend to do nothing other than inflame others because they do not come with backing statements. Just saying, "this sucks", doesn't really contribute to anything.

I think the game could be improved by having superior AI that really challanged on higher levels and tweaking some of the game mechanics such as PJI's etc.

Everyones oppinion is valid, but it depends on how you express it.

I think the core gameplay of Sins is very good, the RTS-4x game.
But after the first two weeks i just don't play it anymore, it kind of died to me.
The game needs better AI, better diplomacy, more depth (more specialized ships, or more different races) and more alternative playstyles (try for example to make culture and trade/raiding more worthwhile).

As a newbie to Sins I'll throw in my 2 cents here.

After 3-4 weeks with Sins I have kind'a love-hate relationship to it. As Turin also said, the core gameplay is very good. Brilliantly refreshing, that's the part I love. When the die hard strategist inside me speaks it says "This is to little of everything and to shallow and unsofisticated" I've seen many ppl complaining about it takes forever to to play and finish. Trust me, when you get past the initial steep learning curve (that may put many off) you can finish off a game in no time and you'r left with a "was this it" kind'a feeling. Sure I could just keep setting up new single or online games against progressively better opponents each time. That will satisfy the war mongering RTS part of me but everything related to playing a true 4x strategy game is out the window. It's the rigid linearity of the game that does this.

I know many will probably disagree with me here but I suspect those are the ones caring more for the trad "let's finish 'em off" kind of game style than intricate 4x gameplay.

SoaSE got awesome potential but to keep it's momentum I feel it needs to get far more sofisticated and difficult in areas as science, trade, weapon selections, populations, diplomacy, etc...

Well considering that the topic starter never once mentioned that the game was boring, but instead requested assistance for his issues, I'm not certain why you brought up the boring factor. Just felt like trolling? Complaining? Or trying to spur on so called fanboys? Hmmmm.....I'm just trying to grasp what kinda reaction you were expecting.



Well, the game focuses on a intergalactic warfare, with the other features you requested being secondary. Seems you want to turn this into a rudimentary 4x game.

The site clearly states: Now you are faced with but one choice; run and hide behind your fortified worlds, or take the offensive and strike before the enemy can. Sins of a Solar Empire at its core is a game of interstellar war. Victory will only be achieved when your enemies lie broken and defeated at your feet. Only once you have secured peace and safety for your people through the extermination of your foes can you rest.

well...many hours later, you're still talking about BOB...seems to me that the « troll » did a lot of mileage on this thread with his use of one word (« boring »)...some might then consider that your own « reaction » and mine ARE trolling...

Sure, but then again it's no point imo in marketing it as a new and refreshing
4x/RTS hybrid when the 4x ppl will get bored and slightly disappointed after figuring out that this game is not hard at all.

... and it's actually not a request from me. The developers may take this game in whatever direction they want. Just my $0.02 as a 4x lover who also got a passion for RTS games.

Or, as you say, doesn't play like a traditional 4x game.

My average time for the first 5 games would safely be over 6 hours each. So 5
X 6 = 30 hours. Not bad for a $40-$45 game. Not including multiplayer, most FPS doesn't last 10 hours. One of the problems I see with SotSE is it's all about war with no peaceable victory. When it comes to war in pretty much any strategy game AI isn't that good against a human player. This is why many games like Civilization gives the AI bonuses and cheaper units as well as a non-war victory condition the AI can win. (like Space Race for example) Again if most gamers play 5-6 complete games then I would say they got their money worth compared to other games so 9.0 is a just score.

I for sure don't want it to play like a trad 4x/turn. I love the current fusion between rts and 4x. I only wish it would have slightly more sophisticated trad 4x features. If it did it got potential to be an all time classic, among the best. Let's see what the future brings

I agree. I really do enjoy this game, but I would like to see a lot more 4x features. In future patches, an emphasis deffinitely needs to be placed on diplomacy. It would be nice to start off neutral with each race, or have relations be dependent on race. That way it's not just open warfare. You will actually have to tick off your neighbors before they attack you. I would also like to see a vastly more extensive tech tree. You can research everything on the tree far too fast if you put enough resources in it. I would also like to see a couple different races. I like the ones that are there and they play vastly different from the others, but I would like to see more. When you're playing against 8 opponents, things get repetitive since you're seeing the same races over and over again. Now the AI doesn't always go after the human as people seem to think. I'm playing a game right now where I'm able to sit back and let them fight and just attack them at their weak points. I do believe the AI is fairly good in this game, but adjustments are always welcome. This game has tons of potential and has a solid base working for it right now. As long as Stardock and Ironclad (and the modders) keep building upon that, this will become a truelly remarkable game.

sajberTim, the AI opponents tend to "gang-up" on the player ATM. So locked teams, or playing against fewer AI opponents for the time being. The next patch should fix it hopefully.

The complaint from the traditional 4X players is that it isn't deep enough, and that is true in 4X terms, but personally, I think Ironclad has struck the right balance for the most part. Too much 4X features, and it becomes tedious for RTS players.

The other complaint raised here is basically that a few players are bored because the AI isn't challenging enough. In old RTS games, "hard" means the AI is *cheating* - like mad, in most cases. So I think Ironclad is going to need a couple more difficulty levels where it's blatantly unfair to please those particular players.

Cheers!

1) How are the races the same? They are completely different in their strong points, but if all you do is play them the same way, then your missing out.

2)THere are different maps, new strategies to try, and all kind of things that make each game unique. Now I'm nnot saying that you have to like it, but at least give it a fair shot.

I don't have a problem with the AI ganging up on me anymore. Once I learned (got skilled enough) how to successfully carry out enough of the missions the other races sent me, things suddenly got pretty easy. Once you escape this (lol) AI bro club the AI is not difficult to to beat at all.

When setting up a scenario, lock teams. You can create a free-for-all by doing this or create 2v2, 3v3, 2v2v2, and so on if you'd like. I find this much more fun when playing against/with the AI since if the teams aren't locked, I normally always get ganged up on. This is common in Sins and there was a post out there about "Death by Diplomacy". This isn't like Rise of Nations where you can be more negotiable with other AI's and they're much more self-centered. Sins' AI's reward doing their missions, but also seem to deeply love each other and gang up on you no matter how much they hate each other. They're rather selfless, predictable, and flat. These issues are being addressed in the next patch though. For now, manipulating the way you set up games is the best way to go about making sure you're not galactic enemy #1.

Also, for dealing with pirates, normally a single well-armed capital ship can handle them with minimal support. You should make getting a capital ship your top priority once playing, and then immediately send it to deal with pirates. If you don't like pirates, you can play maps where there are no pirates. This and/or teaming up with an AI definitely helps a lot!

You know I bought FarCry and I must say I was pretty disappointed... It was NOTHING like MOO-2. I mean what were they thinking? Then I got Neverwinter nights 2 and was disappointed as well. You would think they would at least try to implement some similarities with moo-2. Lastly I got the Sims...wtf?! NOT at all like moo-2, I was sooo pissed. I mean all I wanted was something to replace moo-2! Is that soooo much to ask? What is wrong with developers these days? Don't they see we all want to play a new Moo-2?! It been what, 12 years since moo-2 and no one can get it right? I have had nothing but disappointment for 12 years! I can't even run Moo-2 anymore on new systems. If some developer doesn't give me my moo-2 fix I don't know what I'll do! I had hoped that this game would be like moo-2 but its not! I can't understand how anyone could play this thing for more than two weeks. It has nothing on Moo-2!

Excuse me while I go find a 486 to play Moo-2 on.

This game is fun because there are a ton of strategies you can try. Change yours.

Build more ships before you expand to other planets. Put bounties on the AI. Build tactical structures. There's all kinds of ways I can think to stop from losing in the way you described.

Quick update.

I found my groove.

Not a bad game at all.

That "Lock Teams" button is a nice addition.

Glad to hear you are learning more and are now beginning to enjoy the game.

Glad you have. And if you get bored of this groove , come online!!!