Scouting

Great in theory, but is it viable in practice?

As in most other strategy games I have played, I see a lot of emphasis put on scouting in SoSE.  Whether it is countering some kind of spam ("you should have scouted and built the appropriate counter"), defeating siege frigates ("you should have scouted and known he was massing them") or whatever, I hear a lot about scouting.

Now, I love scouting in theory.  It's great, fine, and dandy.  But in practice, can it really be done in a competitive game against a good, pressuring player?  I say it cannot (the same with most other strategy games I have played).

Back in the good old days of Starcraft,  I didn't have the luxury or the time to build a scout and micro it to my opponent's base to find out whether he was prepping a zergling rush.  I would have been dead.  The only thing that ever worked for me (and I played against super-aggressive friends) was to get 3 gateways up as soon as possible (with enough probes to support them) and start pumping zealots out with all 3.  There was no time to think, scout, or plan.  There was only time for action, period.  If he came with his zerglings (and he usually did) I was prepared.  If he didn't, well, that's life, and at least I had an army.

I found the same thing to be true when I was playing SoSE.  Oh, sure, in some kind of leisurely newbie game where both players are kicking back and nonchalantly playing and building up, there's time for anything you want to do.  But I'm not talking about that kind of game, I'm talking about an aggressive, competitive game.  Somebody will say "well you can put the scouts on auto."  Sure, I agree, but that merely ends up revealing the locations of planets, along with what was at those planets when your scout was last there.  Now, that's valuable information, and I'm not complaining.  But it's not "scouting" as recommended by all these posts I see on a daily basis.  It's not scouting that will tell you your opponent is massing this or that, unless you just get lucky and your scout ship happens to dart in and out of his system while he has something massed there.  Or unless your scout not only passes through a system as he is passing through with his fleet, but you also happen to look at the zoomed out screen at the time this is happening.

Scouting as recommended in all these posts - scouting which would actually guarantee that you know what your opponent is up to - would actually require time and micromanagement to a degree that you simply can't afford (similar to the zergling rush I outlined above).  You'd have to take the scout off autopilot, find his base or bases, go in, sit and watch, run when he chases off your scout, dart back in when he isn't looking, etc.  Meanwhile, you are neglecting an awful lot.

I have played many strategy games competitively, and have even been ranked at or near the top with a few.  But I have never been able to employ scouting effectively, and neither have my friends who have also played competitively (and been quite good).  I even played a developer of one particular game I won't mention, and I beat him pretty badly (much to my surprise and his).  This developer did not scout me and did not counter what I had coming for him, even though plenty of posts for this game also recommended the same thing time and time again (I didn't scout him either - I assumed one of the worst scenarios I could and prepped for it).

Now, in turn-based strategy, or some other slower type game, scouting would be totally doable and practical, and even critical.  But is it really viable in this game and others, no matter how much hot air you hear about it?  I don't want to hear from the players who play slow, leisurely games - we all know the answer to that (sure, you can scout).  I want to hear from the players who play fairly competitive, high-pressure games.  Am I right or wrong?
4,605 views 5 replies
Reply #1 Top
The death of auto-exploring scouts tends to involve someone parking their static guns and a phase inhibitor at the edge of a planets gravity well and hitting them with it. Fighters/bombers often aren't quite fast enough to catch the scout on its way through, but even a couple of planets with 2-3 parked static guns at the edge will take them down pretty good. This is probably intentional but it means that you need to keep microing the parking of scouts in nearby non-colonisable wells (in mag/plasma storms, asteroid fields etc).

Wishlist would be:

Group auto-explore scouts that can form a group of scouts all auto-ing the same course to make it through deeper in numbers.

Toggleable 'skirting' option that would make them follow a safer curved course around the edge of engagement radii rather than making a beeline for their next chosen phase exit.

Toggle-able avoid combat AI option to force a retreat if another units engagement radius approaches.

Loopable rather than just queueable orders (generally, not just for scouts).

Manufacturing option to maintain a fleet cap % of a given unit in a solar system (ditto).

Reply #2 Top
Hi, your input is perfectly welcome. I just want to make sure my point isn't lost. I'm not complaining about scouting units in this game. I'm addressing a much broader question, which is whether or not scouting is viable in a fast-paced high pressure RTS considering that time spent in effective scouting is time lost taking over resources, building structures and units, doing research, etc.

Thanks.
Reply #3 Top
I've always had the idea in RTS game that I'd happily give up 50% of my fleet in exchange for getting reliable intel on what my opponent was doing.

Seriously, knowledge is power. I'm not saying that you should have ships probing him all the time, but having an scout flying into his sectors once in a while to see what kind of ships he's massing in his fleet can give you a good edge to counter him before you actually meet him.

Also, having a scout parked in a bottleneck system, keeping an eye on what's passing through, will give you a pre-eminent warning if the enemy decides to move his fleet through there on his way to your colonies, and allow you to get your defence in place before he is on your doorstep.

Best of all is that these things doesn't require you to manage them at all or do anything. Just ask your scout to sit tight in that system and provide point warning, or ask it to find the enemy fleet so you can catch a glimpse of what to expect is all that's expected off you. Rest of the time the scout can just go around on auto-scout.

Later on, scouts like the TEC scout get's useful abilities that let you plant probes in the enemy colonies, allowing you to keep an eye on it all the time.

Don't underestimate the power of scouting. But don't micro yourself to dead either. You don't have to play big-brother with his colonies since they are usually of litle interest.
Only thing that should really concern you is how big his empire is (allows you to sorta calculate how much wealth he is accumulating, auto-scouting is good for this), How big his fleet is and where it is (Allows you to make counters for it, and possibly get the drop on it in a bad situation, intentional scouting is good for this) and having an early-warning system in place so you don't get surprised by a sudden invasion fleet.
Reply #4 Top
Oh!

Yes. Yes it is. The game is very much geared towards it and you have multiple features specifically designed to make it easy to scout. That is a big hint that you are meant to scout things. They break a little in the mid to late game though, so it would be good to have more to deal with that phase of the game.

If you are not at least putting scouts in the territory next to you - or using the Advent culture scouting thing - you are pretty much asking for 'it' and 'it' is likely to be a mid level distraction force at the front and a huge one heading around back to your homeworld.

Reply #5 Top
The only game where I've seen (and somewhat experienced) a lot of scouting in even fast paced, toe-to-toe games was Supreme Commander, at least in the Vanilla version. I don't mean an occasional LAB running around early game trying to see what's going on, but dedicated, constant, and relentless scouting.

This was because scouts were dirt cheap, effective, and required virtually no micro. If a game wasn't going to end in 10 minutes it wasn't uncommon to see a player set up an Aircraft Factory, set up waypoints around enemy territory, que up a scout, set the factory on Repeat Build and forget about it.

The factory would crank out several scouts a minute (at a minuscule cost, something like one metal and 30 energy a second) and unless there was a lot of forward AA up, the scout would get deep enough to see what was going on. Then fifteen seconds the next one came. Needed to know what was going on, glance over and see what the last scout saw before it died or wait a few seconds for the next one if you want to see what units were around as well. This gave you constant cheap intelligence while you were free to manage your buildings, micro your combat units and do what you needed to do to win.

Extremely effective scouting. But ultimately probably too much, it was a major complaint by many players, since mustering a surprise was near impossible on many maps due your enemy always having eyes above you and from my understanding the scouts got a significant nerf in Forged Alliance.

In Sins, a game I don't play anywhere near competitively, I don't know how viable scouting really is long term. But wanted to share my feelings at least on a game where I saw competitive players aggressively utilize scouting.