[MAGOG]Kruelgor [MAGOG]Kruelgor

To Explore or not to Explore, that is the question

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To Explore or not to Explore, that is the question

from Sins Forums
(NOTE: If you're an LRM spammer and you're looking to win the game within the first 20 minutes, and need to know the location of the enemy home planet then ignore the following)

After playing more of the game, I'm even more convinced that scouting in the INITIAL PHASES of the game is completely irrelevant. Instead, my goal is to capture all the immediate surrounding planets as quickly as possible.

The first ships I build are colonizers. The number of colonizers I build depends on how many surrounding planets are around my base planet. They need time to build up antimatter, so build these ships first. I also build the most powerful capital ship (not mother) and light frigates.

Within the first 5 to 6 minutes of the game, I have built the largest fleet possible allowed by the initial crew points. I then invade a planet (any planet). I lose very few frigates since I'm attacking with a relatively large initial fleet.

With this method, I can capture 3 surrounding planets in less than 15 minutes while keeping my casualties very low.

In the early phase of the game, there is no need to waste time or resources on scout ships if your goal is to simply capture the surrounding planets in a hurry.

This is with game speed set on FAST.

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strategy
27,569 views 85 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top
You are all right and have provided some great advice/feedback.I'm not sure if this is good or not, but I'm sure with experience I can get better at it, but it takes me 20 minutes to colonize 4 planets, have them cleared out of enemy units, 1 capital ship, and 10 frigates.By the way, unless you missed it in the original post. This is a strategy just for the beginning phase of the game. I'm not talking about disregarding scouting all together. I'm just talking about the first 10 to 20 minutes of the game.I am still fine tuning my "beginning phase" strategy. I'm still not using scout ships though, and am not scouting the nearby planets. I have changed what I build and in what sequence though.I build a capital ship factory first, then the metal/crystal mines. (This allows me to get the capital ship out asap).With the frigate factory, I use up all my fleet points by first building a colonizer, then all fighter frigates and another colonizer as the last ship.I then have a capital ship and 8 or 9 fighter frigates ready to invade a random planet at 4 minutes and something. I send in the colonizer ship after the planet is cleared out of enemy. I'm replenshing my fleet while it is fighting always keeping my available crew at zero. After the first planet is cleared out, I immediately attack a second planet system and I use the second colonizer ship I built earlier to populate it.This is all experimental for sure, and it's probably not much different from most other players.While a more "standard" build, the above STILL doesn't explain WHY you're skipping scouts. You're skipping scouts we understand that, but there really is no reason to, given what you've described.It all comes down to one issue: cost/benefit of a single scout at the start. Just two examples of why even the above build is MUCH better with 1 scout (which will, AT MOST, set you back about 30 seconds).1) If that first jump is into a dead system, you've lost AT LEAST several minutes, right there.2) You're literally wasting time waiting for 1 cap and 8 to 9 fighters, because you don't know what's on the other side. If your scout identifies an asteroid, no NEED to wait for all frigates to build. Jump the cap only, followed by the colonizer.So with scouts, your strategy is IMPROVED. Your essentially taking a handicap under the guise that a scout prohibits your strategy, which IS NOT the case.
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You may be right there. I'll try it and compare.

I use a sweeeeeping motion. Once I begin my assault on the first planet system then I sweep across a series of 3 to 4 planets continuously. I want to make sure I have a strong enough fleet to accomplish this. So, it doesn't matter to me what type of planet or what enemies are there. I'm going to invate it and take it.

The only way this wouldn't work is if there are pirates there. If there is a major player there then my force will probably be strong enough to inflict a knock-out blow since the attack commences at less than 5 minutes into the game.

Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top
Hey Kruelgor this seems like a much better strategy. One question though have you looked into the Capital ships that can colonize? This would save you the task of either a.) making a colonizer ship alltogether or b.) only requiring you to make one.


Again just a suggestion.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top
Well, I'm definitely no experienced pro. I'm new just like most of us (except for Beta testers).

I'll have to look into capital ships that can colonize. Thanks!
Reply #54 from Sins Forums Top
I think everyone has proven why scouts are useful.
Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top
Personally, I wouldn't care if everyone agreed that scouts WEREN'T useful. I just can't stand not knowing what's around me. That little gray planet with the question mark on it is horridly irritating. I get seriously uncomfortable going any length of time without knowing my surroundings.
Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top
Oh NoOoOoOoOoOo!!
I lost a minute when I scouted!


Haha, that's probably overdoing it.
Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top
After testing this about 6 times last night, capturing the two adjacent systems is almost always a bad idea. For example, if you have:D-V-TH-A-TD=Desert V=Volcano TH=Terran Homeworld A=Asteroid T=Terransurrounding you, then you would likely be better served colonizing the desert planet before the volcano. The "buffer" volcano problem may not actually be much help in your defense depending on the actual location of enemies and pirates. Moreover, it will cost so much to settle that you will likely be ill able to defend it anyway.Scouting around to know the lay of the land will generally always pay for itself.Tea
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It depends how you look at it though. The cost of building the few more frigates to take that farther planet first due to its defense or A volcanic thats next door you can have your research done for in a minute while your fleet is building for the larger planets. Intially the first 10 minutes you have that volcano thats closer with no culture degrade your gonna end up with probably atleast 800 more of each resource + more credits. That return pays for you steamroll the systems in front of you. I generally send 12 frigates to move along faster through the systems. I usually have 2 colony ships that are lagging a jump or so behind waiting on antimatter.
Reply #58 from Sins Forums Top
If it's a large map, you can probably skip on early scouting. Build a few light frigates that you'll need either way, and use them to clear planets faster and scout one planet ahead each time.
Reply #59 from Sins Forums Top
The only situation where this will not work is if a pirate base is next to me
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which you would only know about if you scouted out the planet(s) in the first place...
Reply #60 from Sins Forums Top
I'm replenshing my fleet while it is fighting always keeping my available crew at zero.
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You are losing a hell of a lot more resources/time by not retreating ships before they get destroyed than you could possibly gain by not building a scout or two.
Reply #61 from Sins Forums Top
Ha! Well, we live and learn. You are all right.

I now do scout nearby planets in the beginning phase of the game, but not with scouts.

I'm now using 3 small fighter ships to do the scouting. If I run into a large force I simply retreat. If I run into a small force which can be defeated then I clear it out.

I still build a colonizer ship as my very first ship. It needs time to build anti-matter.
Reply #62 from Sins Forums Top
I still build a colonizer ship as my very first ship. It needs time to build anti-matter.
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Why not get the cap ship yard up and running and grab a free colonizer cap ship?
Reply #63 from Sins Forums Top
I still say you should try the colonizing mothership equivalent of your race. Not only does this save money by not having to buy colonizers, but each race gets some sort of bonus along with it's colonization (although the TEC colonizing cap ship doesn't see a bonus till you get level 2 colonize i believe.) Now, on the downside, if you run into another player early and they have brought a bonifide battleship it puts you at a disadvantage.
Reply #64 from Sins Forums Top
The colonizer Mothership of each race is the best purchase early game IMO. It can fight decent, most have nice abilities, plus when upgraded it can later colonize a lot quicker than a frigate. Also its Antimatter battery is much much bigger.
Reply #65 from Sins Forums Top
Why not get the cap ship yard up and running and grab a free colonizer cap ship?
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I do that too. That is separate from the frigate factory.
Reply #66 from Sins Forums Top
After playing more of the game, I'm even more convinced that scouting in the INITIAL PHASES of the game is completely irrelevant. Instead, my goal is to capture all the immediate surrounding planets as quickly as possible.

The first ships I build are colonizers. The number of colonizers I build depends on how many surrounding planets are around my base planet. They need time to build up antimatter, so build these ships first. I also build the most powerful capital ship (not mother) and light frigates.

Within the first 5 to 6 minutes of the game, I have built the largest fleet possible allowed by the initial crew points. I then invade a planet (any planet). I lose very few frigates since I'm attacking with a relatively large initial fleet.

With this method, I can capture 3 surrounding planets in less than 15 minutes while keeping my casualties very low.

In the early phase of the game, there is no need to waste time or resources on scout ships if your goal is to simply capture the surrounding planets in a hurry.

This is with game speed set on FAST.
Reply #67 from Sins Forums Top
Now, on the downside, if you run into another player early and they have brought a bonifide battleship it puts you at a disadvantage.
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Well, the Evacuator performs pretty well in early one-on-one combat with its nano-disassembler, but frankly, in a one-on-one fight at that early in the game, it will only take about 40 days and 40 nights for anyone to actually DIE otherwise, so you can always just flee while building some frigates to reinforce you. If he gives chase, you'll have sucked him into a trap.

After playing more of the game, I'm even more convinced that scouting in the INITIAL PHASES of the game is completely irrelevant. Instead, my goal is to capture all the immediate surrounding planets as quickly as possible.
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Scouting costs $250 and like 10 seconds. It'll take you longer just to build your capship yard and capship.

The first ships I build are colonizers. The number of colonizers I build depends on how many surrounding planets are around my base planet. They need time to build up antimatter, so build these ships first.
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The amount of time it would take you to build a scout would get you like 4 or 5 antimatter. The only time I could imagine NOT building at least ONE scout first (and if you're Vasari, your scout is also your extractor flagger), is if my home planet were a one-way dead-end, leaving no choice of which way to invade. Otherwise, at least one, preferrably two, scouts will let you plan that future "sweep" route you're so fond of.

Otherwise you could end up building up this expensive fleet, then warping into a dead end gas cloud, wasting several minutes as you turn around and warp back out.
Reply #68 from Sins Forums Top
With this method, I can capture 3 surrounding planets in less than 15 minutes while keeping my casualties very low.
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I hope you're not doing this on small maps - greedy colonizing cripples your econ and you will lose against any halfway competent opponent(s).
Reply #69 from Sins Forums Top
Try using this strategy in multi...u wont survive very long..

BTW...Any way to prevent enemy ships from scouting :NOTSURE:
...
Reply #70 from Sins Forums Top
Another reason why scouting in the beginning is better is because there is no defenses in place. The scounts will be able to scout more.

also
I hope you're not doing this on small maps - greedy colonizing cripples your econ and you will lose against any halfway competent opponent(s).
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as said before, colony rushing hurts your economy. Don't forget about the need to capture resources in non-colonizable gravity wells. Those put out alot of resources, and you will find them faster when you scout.
Reply #71 from Sins Forums Top
Besides, after the six frigates I am researching Capital Ship crews and building a hoard of capital ships.
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That's quite the waste.
1-2 early ships, yes, you need the abilities.
But beyond that, low-level caps are a waste of pop as they are very frail and weak in combat compared to proper ships.

Sure, once you got the army behind them you can build more to level them, but we're talking minutes and hours into the game here, not the initial rush.
Reply #72 from Sins Forums Top
i find the best way is to build scouts send them out and build the colonizer cap ship first. It can out nealy all militias on its own and doesnt take forever for its anti-matter to recharge. Within 15 minutes i normally have about 5 or 6 planets with no underdevelopment tax
Reply #73 from Sins Forums Top
I'm loling.
Is this original post for serious?

Lets not even mention you want to know what your enemy is building. Maybe this stuff works against AI, but not online.
Reply #74 from Sins Forums Top
Sounds like a possibly decent strategy on a huge map, with no one near you. Especially against AIs, ESPECIALLY fortification, who could possibly be the easiest of them all.

Try it on a small medium map vs. a human and watch yourself get demolished. Find yourself without any infrastructure. I, actually, recently played a 3v3 on Gateway. One of the enemy who was only 3 jumps away(Pretty common in Gateway) extended themselves very fast, colonizing everything on their way to gateway, probably in a strategy similar to yours.

Kortul Devastator + 10 then 20, then 30 Kanrak Assailants put him in to an economic coma, unable to do anything. On small-medium and some large maps, having scouting, and not overextending yourself(Which I think is the common consesus that you're doing here, correct me if I'm wrong.) is a huge key to victory. One of the thing that bothers me about your strategy is the waste of those light frigates. That's a huge waste of resources.

Some strategies work GREAT on AIs, like tons of turrets. Yeah, try a turret line against a decent human player. =)
Reply #75 from Sins Forums Top
2 scouts ships on auto explore are cheap and fast to build.

why wouldn't you explore.

just queue up 2 scouts, set em to auto explore and forget them.