Crash/Freeze/Etcetera

from Sins Forums
Hi all,

I've been playing the game for a few days, with strangely mixed results. Initially, the game worked perfectly, smooth on the highest settings with a minor drop in fps when things got really busy. The second day however, the game often freezes, starts again, stutters, and in larger games crashes within minutes. Sometimes I go for a day without any problems, and it seems to be solved, but now the problem is back for a few days straight.

I havent been able to find a solution in any of the other threads, though I tried lots of things, reinstalling the game, rebooting, updating my drivers, installing the vista hotfix, increasing page file size to 4 GB, killing background apps, cleaning spyware, virusses, registry's.... nothing seems to help, and the problem occurs even at the lowest possible settings. Often the game completely freezes shut and I have to manually reboot. Most of the time the game crashes when deeply zoomed in on a battle, but this isnt always the case.

I was hoping someone else might have an idea, I cannot find the cause of the problem or a solution, I know other people have been having problems with crashes and freezes but none of the possible solutions seem to work for me. Please help, I think the game is great but I can't play it like this.

Thanks!


specs:

Intel Core 2 CPU 6600 2.40 Gz
2GB RAM
ATI Radeon X1950 Pro
Vista 32 bit
technical
7,499 views 20 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I can't seem to edit my thread, in any case, the game even freezes/stutters/slows down in the start menu.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Looks like you've checked out most the posts in here. Interesting you have an ATI card with this issue, where most Nvidia guys are waiting for an update hopefully to be released soon. You aren't getting any kind of detailed error from MS?

I was thinking passing around saved games or replays of games that this is happening, see if others experience the lock up at the exact same time, but I don't think that would really work since I can reload a game I had a BSOD and get passed the previous point. It is definitely a behavior that the game and hardware can't handle at once, but duh on that mute point and good luck troubleshooting. I'm also getting an interface (planet quick Pins, bottom and top bars) flicker when I'm zoomed out 2nd to last zoom point, but doesn't seem to relate to an up and coming freeze. I'm keeping an eye on that one. I'm going to see if I can get one my replays to freeze, though I doubt it.

Lets try this, what type of RAM are you using and have you tried the underclock approach I've been trying in another post, post is called "Video Driver Issue causing hangs and bluescreen", around 85 posts. I've cut my RAM from stock 667 MHZ to 533 MHZ and able to get around much better than before, at least enough for me to want to keep playing and on max settings. I'm thinking my OCZ Special Ops is pretty crappy and I have 4 X 1GB of them. In the game I'm in now, I've got a couple hours worth of play and I've frozen I think twice. I don't have it perfectly tuned, but it seems to recover a bit easier, 20-30 secs. It has frozen zoomed out and zoomed in on a fight with some Pirates, so I'm still troubleshooting, though Nvidia says they'll have a fix soon. Just trying to get by until that day arrives.

I agree game is great and easy to lose time, but the freezing issues is a must fix.
Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Basically the same problem here. The freezes I get seem to be all but random. One I got during the intro video, another on the menu, and most are in game at random times. I've tried the hotfix, tried lowering the settings and setting the game to Windowed mode, and nothing. It still crashes. The clincher is, is that I'm the host for all the multiplayer games between my buddies, so when I crash, they all freeze. I hope Nvidia has a fix coming soon, or Stardock, or one of the two... As this is the first real good RTS experience I've had in years, and I'm still addicted despite crashing once an hour (actually, that's probably the only thing making me look at the clock so I can eat and sleep). The game itself runs smooth as a greased pig, even on the highest settings... It's just keeping it running.

Q6600 OC'd 3Ghz
eVGA 8800GT 512mb
2x2GB Mushkin 5-5-5-18 DDR 800
Windows Vista HP 64-bit
Soundblaster Extreme Gamer
750GB HDD
6GB Page File

Thank you auto-save!
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
What set of drivers are you on? I was using 64bit Vista and had to roll back my ATI drivers to correct this issue.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I'm trying defragging since some guys suggest this and I usually pass over it since Vista was suppose to take this serious and do it in the background on a schedule, so no one had to worry about it. Vista analyzed the drive and said my drive performance was fine and didn't need to be defragged. I ran it anyways and it ran for over 2 hours. I cancelled it and am trying a free trial of diskeeper which at least lets me see the progress. I turned my pagefile to 256 mb last week reading something that if you have enough RAM, you didn't need to bother with VM, but before I set it back to 4 or 6 GBs, I wanted to make sure the drive was defragged right. Looks like a mess to me so far. Maybe this will help. I'm on Vista 64 bit, 169.25 Nvidia drivers, 230 GB drive 7200 RPM case anyone cares. I'll post on results, but seems like it will be a while.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks.

I tried underclocking but I think I havent quite figured out how to do that yet. I changed something, comp wouldent start, changed it back, and leaving bios alone for now.

I'm on these drivers (8.2): http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=vista32/common-vista32

I'll try using a previous driver (8.1)

I'll just throw in defragging the disc which has sins installed, who knows, it might work.
I'll also try lowering my page file to 1GB again.


Maybe with enough tweaking I'll find a setup that works, I'll let you know, thanks for the advice.

So far I received no error messages, simply a freeze/crash from windows. The most unnerving thing is that now the same thing sometimes happens with other programs, like playing videos or music. I hope I can fix this too :/
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Ah the fun of personal computing, everyone has similar issues, but yet there are probably hundreds of different reasons. There's definitely something going on that a patch may be able work around, but isn't really going to fix the underlying problem. Something is having trouble working together between our chipsets, RAM, CPU, GPU, oh and of course, dreaded O/S. I wonder if Devs would have a more efficient/stable time building a game for Linux, oooh bet they cringe at that question. I say if they build it, people will come. Free easy installing O/S, lots of work arounds, probably more trouble than its worth...

One thing I'm trying to check with others having similar issues are:
Motherboard?
Power Supply?

Helps to know for clocking speed support and overall component support.

The only thing I can see is Egamst3k's RAM has some pretty high latency compared to mine. Some reviewers on newegg say they were able to bring their latency down for this type of RAM, if this is the kind you have?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16820146692

At 667 MHZ, I was running 5 CAS, but at 533 MHZ, I've brought the latency to the 4s and 12 which seemed to improve stability for the game. I also upped voltage for my RAM to what OCZ says they cover on warranty, 2.2 volts. Of course, no one with expertise in this area has chimed in and said I'm off my rocker as far as thinking it is an issue of communication between GPU and RAM, so I keep on trying. It is the relentless pursuit on finding that perfect mix that I hope will solve all my issues. Vista rates my RAM at 5.9, GPU at 5.7, CPU at 5.4, yet that doesn't seem to carry over with stability if the drivers can't get their act together. All I know is the Standard/default setting in the Bios are not doing the trick for me.

Syntaris, what MB and RAM are you running? I'll check the manual and see what you can try. Should just be changing just a couple settings, nothing too drastic that should effect your stability like not posting. If you're not comfortable messing with it though, no worries. I wouldn't trust messing with my Bios from a message board either.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Hi all,

I’m playing this game for over a week now without errors in Single and Lan games.
However, seeing people having trouble running this game on Medium/High end “clean” systems is somehow troubling me.

I think the compatibility of Sins with Vista is the main source of pain in "this problem", the crashing and freezing. Just search for XP and then for Vista in the forum search and see for yourself. 0-0

One other possibility i’m thinking of “since some folks here have a positive effect by downgrading their RAM speeds ” is updating your Bios. I don’t know if this can make a positive effect in terms of making your system more compatible with Vista but, if u run a updated system but u forget to update the controller of your system hardware, this could give u trouble.

Here are my specs.
-Gigabyte P35-DQ6.
-Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600.
-Kingstone 2 x 1gb PC2 – 6400 CL4 ( 800MHZ but runs at a wooping 667MHZ (1.8V).
-XFX 8800 gts 320 mb and with the nVIDIA ForceWare 169.21.
-Windows xp 32 bit with sp2.

I just increased my Ram speed to 800MHZ (1.95V) "a 0.15V increase" and IF this is a RAM bugg i'll post futher info later.

This is just an example of a system with no problems running sins on highest settings and on medium sized maps against 3 AI hard. Up to date AND on XP ofcource :p.

Good luck ;)

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
I'm having these same exact problems myself...tried practically every "fix" you all have listed, with the exception of reinstalling. I'm running Vista Ultimate 32-bit edition, with a G-Force 7950GT video card, 4 gigs of memory, Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 @ 2.4gigs. After many, many minidumps and video driver fails/resets, I finally just uninstalled it and am now using the CD as a coaster. Honestly, if the store I bought the game from would take this buggy piece of crap back, I'd have done it 3 hours after installing it. I also downloaded the "bonus pack" from the website as well...though there was no explanation whatsoever as to what it contained.

The game itself, is great...at least according to the manual. But like Communism, just because something is good in theory, the problems of executing it in a smooth, real-world manner is another thing altogether...

Good luck trying to get this beautiful trainwreck to run without crashing...but I think I'm going to move on to some other game where I don't have to pretend to be a tech support rep every half hour or so. :( 
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
@ stitchedchin

I looked all around my bios but could not find the option anywhere at all. Too bad, thanks for the help though.
My motherboard is ASUS P5VD2-VM by the way.


@ Davidian

I know you have :p I cant even get it to run for more than 10 minutes on a LAN game without a crash or continued freezing. When it runs it runs extremely smooth at the highest settings though.

@ whitewolf0207

Yea, the only thing I can hope for is for a fix in 1.3... hopefully a bit fast.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Hey, I have a new problem to add... I just bought the game (my PC has 2.8 GHz, but only 1 GB of RAM) and loaded up the smallest map they had for playtesting. The map loads about 3/4 of the way, then freezes and doesn't even continue. I doubt my RAM has anything to do with this considering the game hasn't even begun yet, and my computer can handle the much-worse "Supreme Commander" for a few hours on medium maps before I see problems.

Any reason why it's doing this? I really want to play, but if I can't even load a map I'm considering selling the game to a friend.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Hey, I have a new problem to add... I just bought the game (my PC has 2.8 GHz, but only 1 GB of RAM) and loaded up the smallest map they had for playtesting. The map loads about 3/4 of the way, then freezes and doesn't even continue. I doubt my RAM has anything to do with this considering the game hasn't even begun yet, and my computer can handle the much-worse "Supreme Commander" for a few hours on medium maps before I see problems.Any reason why it's doing this? I really want to play, but if I can't even load a map I'm considering selling the game to a friend.
End of quote


Give us your specs. Operating System, RAM amount and type, your Virtual RAM amount, and anything else pertinent.

Try re-installing the game first, and if you're on Vista, give it Administrator Privileges.

Usually something failing to load is just a corrupt file and not a hardware issue.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
Operating System: Windows XP
RAM: 1.0 GB RAM (not sure what you mean on "type," sorry)
Virtual RAM: Not entirely sure if I have the right thing, but under "Virtual Memory" I found 3072 MB.

Not sure what else I'd need to post, really. Sorry, I'm more the file-editing type of computer savvy, not the search-around-technical stuff.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah, starting with Vista 64-bit back in Jan '07, I'm constantly looking for BIOS updates all the time from ASUS. I'm on the latest BIOS for my M2N32-SLI AM2 590 AMD.

http://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket775/P5RD2-VM/e2832_p5vd2-vm.pdf
Heres your MB manual.
Syntaris, your BIOS should be 1202 available Nov '07. ASUS EZ Flash is, well easy. Just grab the BIN file from the website, put it on a blank flash drive and follow instructions in your manual on page 56. Probably already have this down, but just in case. In your manual, page 71, 2.4.2, Bios Menu --> Advanced / Chipset / DRAM Clock / Drive Control is where to go. Current DRAM Frequency is on top. Change the Frequency from Auto to one below whatever it says you are currently running. To change your latency, DRAM Timing Selectable should be set to Manual. Then you change the CAS Latency Timing to maybe one less than what you currently on 5 -> 4. If you are already at 2 or 3, depending on your RAM quality, probably leave it there. I don't see a place where you can adjust voltage, so probably leave the rest alone. Sounds like you know how to clear your Bios and get it to work if I lock you up? Check page 30 in the manual, QVL (Qualified Vendor List), see if your RAM is on that list. Mine wasn't, but I took a chance because some guys were saying they didn't have issues. Might be what is burning me, but don't feel like forking out more money for PC parts when I'd rather jump to the new DDR3 platform on my next upgrade.

I'm beginning to see a pattern. A lot of ASUS MBs and definitely Vista having issues. XP has been pretty stable and probably just having PC hardware dependent issues. Could just be that ASUS is the #1 MB maker, too and that's why most people with issues just happen to be on the most popular board. Be interesting to get a concensus on that. I'm thinking Asus's newer boards are probably okay.

s09119, are you on Vista? Yeah, I imagine Supreme Commander is a bigger RAM hog compared to SOASE, but most of the time, SOASE is taking 1.5-1.7 GB of RAM from me, using Vista 64-bit. You checked your virtual memory? Right click Computer / Properties / Advanced / Performance / Advanced. Set that to 1536 if it isn't already. If you still have Supreme installed, run it and then Alt-Tab to desktop, check Task Manager and see how much RAM SC takes up. Try the same for SOASE. If you are comparable there, VM is fine too, then need more specifics like your video card. 256 MB RAM on there or better is probably a must and able to handle 3D is a must. I'm thinking SOASE has a bit more stress on the 3D aspect compared to SC, but that's TOOMA (talkin' out of my arse). That's what I feel like talking about this stuff because once you think you know something, it becomes obsolete...

Thanks for the post Davidian, shows MB and Vista theory nicely. Basically, we're probably screwed for a while til they post some more patches for us suckers.

Whitewolf, what else are you playing and what is working fine for you (though sounds like you won't come back to this game)? I agree, though, be nice if things "just worked" and you didn't have to troubleshoot all day. I call it a hobby to keep my sanity. Dare I say it, but I wish they'd make good games like this for Linux. Optimistically I figure MS has cooler things that make it easier to make games for it, but I'm sure it is just develop for the biggest audience. Wine sounds like a lot of work, but I never would have installed Vista if Linux had a bigger native game following. It is free after all and easy to install... build it and they will come.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Whoops, caught me editing, now I'm below you.
Type for RAM Memory is something like DDR2 6400 (800 MHZ), brand OCZ, Corsair, Mushkin, latency is 4-4-4-12?
I'm guessing but do you have a Dell?

That seems like a lot of VM, not positive if that could be an issue, but I may try Changing it to 1536. Most consensus says 1.5 times your RAM, which is 1 GB.

What kind of video card do you have, Nvidia / ATI, 7600 GT, Radeon 1950, etc. You should find this under Device Manager. Right click Computer / Properties / Hardware. In there see what your Display Adapter says.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Operating System: Windows XPRAM: 1.0 GB RAM (not sure what you mean on "type," sorry)Virtual RAM: Not entirely sure if I have the right thing, but under "Virtual Memory" I found 3072 MB.Not sure what else I'd need to post, really. Sorry, I'm more the file-editing type of computer savvy, not the search-around-technical stuff.
End of quote


Try increasing your Virtual Memory to 4GB.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Stitchedchin, thanks again, I succeeded in undercloking to 400 mhz. But it didnt have any effect on the game unfortunately.

I also tried lots of different video drivers, tried running the game in Xp compatibility mode. This is looking like it's more trouble than it's worth for me, I'll just sit and wait for the patch.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Yep, I'm thinking tweaking the system only helps when it is a real hardware issue, but just plain communication/timing issues, we're going to have to wait for the patches. If this Nvidia patch doesn't work, I may have to check with Asus and see if they got something they can do.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
It seems like I have solved the problem, or rather, the problem seems to have solved itself, though the remedy is hardly recommendable.

My computer had crashed, and I had to use a CMOS reset before getting it going again, and as an added effect the game now works flawlessly! Let's hope it continues to do so.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Been playing now since the day of the official release and have been following the forums on the issues. My system is
Pentium Dual Core E2140 1.6GHz with 800MHz FSB
3 GB ram on ASUS motherboard model IPIBL-LB
NVidia GEFORCE 8500GT with 512 MB
Logitech MX3200 wireless mouse and keyboard
Acer AL2016W monitor
Vista 32 bit OS
So far I have not experienced any major issues. Typical FPS run around 30 with an occasional drop to 4-5 but no noticeble problems.
I have had no lockups either. All things considered I think this is fairly decent. I have also played the game on my laptop which is a Compaq with a AMD processor around 1.2 GHZ and 512 MB ram with just the standard mobile video card. Even on it the game runs fine, if not a little slow. Anyway if anything the only issue I have is there seems to be a slight lag in the mouse. I will click and then as I move it will activate the button I am moving over instead of where I clicked, which may be mouse related. So all in all compared to some games I have played I say hats off to SoaSE.

Sin ON :HOT: