The increased overheads might be true, but you are living in lala land if you think that anyone will deny themselves a gaming experience because of that. No one 'learns to do without' these days.

Gee, is that why piracy isn't a federal crime, but larceny is? I'm pretty sure the difference between what you THINK something is, and what the law SAYS it is means you need a swift kick in the stupid.

I would stop buying A LOT of PC games if they made it impossible to pirate. I haven't bought a console game in more than a year because I CANT TEST THEM BEFOREHAND! (So maybe I missed some but I don't know, and I WONT KNOW cause I can't afford to try everything, not even close) so at BEST I play them at friends, and if I like, I buy.

As for PC games, try it, then buy it - and if I'm not a good enough example... lemme think. 13 of the 18 people I know who pirate will buy something if they pirate and like it first.

Its not my choice, no, if I could afford to TRY all the half-baked excuses for games most PC developers are releasing then I would but so sorry, I don't have the money. It literally WOULD stop me from buying games. No piracy, no preview, no preview, no opinion, no opinion, don't care enough to buy it.

I pre-ordered a COLLECTORS edition of Sins, and I will never use the posters, the Mycolors theme or even put the music cd in the drive. That extra 10 dollars is going towards supporting Stardock so MAYBE the rest of the gaming manufacturers won't be gdmn stupid about putting that #^&#%&$% shit on the cds. If I wanted malware and spyware I'd go to a hacking site with no antivirus on, thanks but no thanks.



I have.

Some people do but I'm not naive enough to believe it's a majority, anymore.

Quite a bit of irrational arguing in this thread.

The applicable definition for piracy: The unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright.

I just did an act of piracy myself, see any referencing for my definition? Poor Webster.

Piracy is one of those ridiculously broad terms that covers anything and everything in a subject. Some piracy actually is equatable to theft, when you reproduce someones product and sell it, you're stealing their customers. Me downloading AOE2 to try it out before buying it and the expansion was shopping. I'm sure quite a few of you played the demo, even the full campaign would have been an unbelievably shitty demonstration of the game. I was being told that I should get it, despite the demo being utter shit. Of course, this pre-dates the ease we have now, I actually downloaded it in small packets off a site over the course of a couple hours time, it was quite a bit of effort. That's not to say my effort negated my responsibility to pay for it, but if the asshats that produced it had put out a reasonable demo I wouldn't have needed to put so much effort into seeing if I wanted to play their game. I also pirated Age of Wonders:Shadow magic and Homeworld. Didn't buy AOW:SM. It's a really boring botched job on updating Master of Magic. Like AOE2, the demo blew chunks. Homeworld on the other hand was an outstanding game, like AOE2, I found it worth buying. My list of pirated video games is rather short unfortunately, that being all three of them.

Of course, I've also downloaded numerous cd cracks, a keygen or two for games I lost the cd key for, checked out an artists music I was told I'd like(usually wrong unfortunately, I'm an elitist prick) and watched tv shows recorded off stations I have access to already. Quite the vermin aren't I? Elitist prick is a possible copyright infringement as well, assuming the first person to write it down isn't dead and no one registered the copyright and maintained it.

For those of you wanting to burn the terrible pirates at the stake, perhaps a more sensible approach? I seriously doubt there is anyone on the planet of adult age that hasn't already broken enough copyright laws to guarantee them more life sentences than they could serve. It's not theft to infringe on someones copyright, even commercial piracy isn't actually theft. Attempting to treat it as theft is just dropping your pants, and writing screw you on your ass cheeks while mooning your opposition. Way to screw your argument. Treat it just as it is, you're taking someone else's idea without paying them for it.

For the "copyright infringement isn't theft crowd"... Yeah... You're a dirt bag if you infringe on someones copyright in order to get what they created without paying. It's just terrible that someone calls you on it. It is true that you haven't actually stolen anything, the very concept of stealing an idea is so absurdly unenforceable that lawmakers needed to invent concepts to cover it. It's also true that the sky is blue, it's got zero bearing on whether your mother should shoot you if you pirate all your games to avoid paying money. If you somehow feel justified in stealing intellectual property, and I'm not entirely sure I'd fault your logic, you're still a dirt bag if for no other reason than being an ass in return for a publisher being an ass.

Now, the real issue with copyrights... It's possible a more asinine method of protecting software could be envisioned, but I can't. Yes, the code resembles a literary work in a vague sort of way. Yes, there are pretty pictures and shit which happen to be artwork. I'd go so far as to say models should probably be copyrighted. The game itself though? It's retarded.

If you want to argue something about copyrights, argue the logic in copyrighting an invention. Code is an instruction set to create an object, a virtual one, but an object no less. It's like a toaster oven with a pretty picture on it, the campaign story, background blather and artwork are all copyright material. The code is a toaster oven. This or that game isn't a single piece of art any more than a shitty little ipod becomes a piece of art by having music in it. It's a toaster oven. Patent the engine, when the patent wears off free it up for use. Sell it in the meantime, when it's still viable and actually worth something.

We need fewer engines in the video game industry anyway so getting rid of all the idiotic licensing bullshit can only be good. If a developer knew their engine wasn't going to be worth a dime in a few years, they'd be a little more interested in selling it to other developers and a little less interested in hoping no one else puts out a competing game. So many good games on shitty engines and shitty games on good engines. Just imagine if Bethesda had used the Source engine for oblivion. It would have looked almost as good and actually run well! The time they saved could have been put into something like... a plot?

@Vogar - I absolutely disagree with your position. IP is a modern notion that has been used as a control mechanism over society. IP was established to benefit society culturally. It was not meant to be a life + revenue stream protection device and a creativeness stifling tool. This is so however because in recent decades it has slowly been twisted into a cancer afflicting society.

Once corporations were given the same status as people the entire dynamics of the game changed. Moreover since you like to use the completely erroneous argument that "theft is theft" what about the companies that sale shitty products and fail to support them? Are they not stealing people's money by not delivering on the intellectual property someone paid for? What recourse do the little guys have? NONE but to try to protect themselves from such things.

Regarding your job position, shouldn’t the guy who designed the house or built the road you use or made your clothes get some money every time you use it/them? It seems only fair to me. What about the teacher who taught you? Why should only one group to be able to make money for life on their work. IP is not an ENTITLEMENT it is a special privilege grant to people from society as an incentive to create for the benefit of society and one that was meant to be short term in nature due to the benefit element.

I wont even go into the politics of things on this issue because this is simply not the place for it and I doubt most people here have the background necessary to really build a valid argument in defense of IPR. I'm not even sure it is possible to be honest.

@Prima & Zzz - Excellent position. I concur wholeheartedly.

@Psychoak - On the money brother. On the money.

Indeed. An example for this that I, personally, got exceedingly steamed about was EA's NHL 08 for the PC. In this case, EA literally committed a crime (false/misleading advertising). Prior to the game shipping (it was shipping for the PC, PS2, PS3, and XBOX 360), their website touted the usual stuff about additions to the game mechanics, graphics, etc, etc.; the usual stuff you see with these annual release sports games.

What they didn't disclose was the fact the PC version would not include several features that the PS3 and XBOX 360 versions had. For some reason, EA split development; one group made the PS3 and XBOX 360 versions, another made the PS2 and PC versions.

I don't normally purchase EA products, but I'm a massive fan of hockey and I liked some of the features touted -- the same features that won me over into trying the game were the ones not included in the PC version. Its a good thing I decided to "steal" the game via pirating before purchasing it, otherwise I would have been out ~$60 with no recourse.

Shortly after the game was released, and a flood of very angry customers (you know, people who, unfortunately, bought the game) complaining about the missing features from the PC version, EA amended the website to note the PC version did not include several features. A friend of mine did buy the game, and on the box itself, it advertises these missing features.

Stunts like this, together with maddening DRM, poor quality control and the software/hardware conflicts also mentioned in this thread and several linked articles all conspire to drive people towards pirating games. For many I'm positive merely to "test" the product before purchasing, to see if the product is actually as advertised, working and worthwhile. But its a slippery slope, and once people start to pirate I'd wager that many start to just out-right pirate games.

Pirating, whether legal or illegal, is wrong. The gray area is that in many cases, the potential customer is left with little recourse but to engage in this activity to prevent themselves from being ripped off.

Very few other instances of luxury items exist as games do, in that you cannot actually test the product before purchase. Returning games, where actually possible, is often a tiresome, lengthy process (I recently returned a game to Wal-mart and it took over an hour, and having to talk with the store manager).

Console games, however, can often be returned. A friend of mine does it all the time at the same Wal-mart store. Additionally, you can rent the games prior to purchasing if you desire. PC games have no such try-before-you-buy. If I want an honest feel for a game's quality, and whether its something I'll enjoy.. I have the play it.

In my game library, I have 87 games -- all purchased. Less than half are games I feel no regret in purchasing. Some of the games I do regret purchasing are quality games that simply made design decisions that make the game un-appealing to me, but the opposite to others. Most, however, are bad games, either due to being rushed, buggy or simply poorly executed, but well marketed.

There's a lot of resentment between PC gamers and a lot of publishers and developers, and its because we can't trust each other. We can't trust them to put out quality, worth-while products, and they don't trust us to pay for what they do put out. Its little wonder the platform is so maligned.

So, what is a customer to do? I'm willing to pay for my entertainment. I pay for my movies, my music (well, not really, since these days I mostly listen to free and legal online streams). I buy my box sets of television shows I enjoy. I buy my sports equipment, my books and so on.

All things I can try, for free or nearly so, before I buy.

Ironic.

Have read almost every post in here, so i guess ill post something as well

I for one have grown up among pirates, yeah the copyright kind and ive never known it was illegal until i got to the age of about 23. Call me stupid or what ever, but i just didnt know or even thought about it like that. Since everyone i knew just gave me the games for free.

In the Amiga/Commodor 64 i never brought a game since i got them all for free and didnt think about that it was illegal. I knew that going into a shop and steal stuff was illegal, but since the games wasnt something you just took from a store it was different. Though i have stolen from a store once but i didnt feel like doing it, dunno why actually, just didnt addressee me in any way like it did for my brother (who is quiet legal kind of person today).

I remember as i was younger looking at a game in a store and saw this strategy game for the PC, cant really remember its name, but on the box it looked soo cool so i brought it. To my surprise it was soo bad and i really didnt like it. And i couldnt even return it because i opened the box. This was around 1996 i think, before i even got on the internet.

One of my friends had IDSL internet and he knew how to get games, and by him i got to know Master of Orion 2. We loved that game very much and played that game for years. We also talked alot about buying it as we would love to have the box and manual for it, but it was no where to be found where we lived, so we never brought it.

So life went on and i brought a few games, some was really bad and others where good. Like Homeworld. I feelts like i was lucky to have found a good game for once that i brought.

In 2002 i moved in a new apartment with a girlfriend and we got our self ADSL. Her dad was downloading and selling games and software. But he told me about emule where i could get PORN!! haha, games/movies/tv shows. I was like WOW this was really easy to get new stuff. Though i did buy games still at times, like Black and White and Diablo 2 and other games. Some games where just so bad i feelt cheated since i couldnt return them. So i just ended up downloading games instead.

In 2003 i believe i read about the RIAA and first there i was beginning to think i was actually stealing. Well not much but the thought started to cross my mind. And i was beginng to be more careful of downloading stuff.

Also in 2001 i believe i was at this HUGE net party in denmark where it had about 200 people or more. Everyone had games/porn/movie and so on. We all were connected on a network and i remember it was so easy to just get the stuff. This wasnt abnormal to me since ive grown up with everyone pirating so this was just super for me to get a huge amount of stuff in short time.
Ive also been at school net partys where only a few had legal hardware. Maybe 2-3 out 20 people. Those 2-3 people had there parents computers with them and they have paid for everything they had, so i guess thats why they had almost as much as we did just legal.

A few Years ago i read about Battlefield 2142 and everyone as far as i read said the game was just great, so i brought it.. To me the game wasnt my kind of game, did play it for some hours tho. After they updated something, i started to have problems with my legal copy. I was like what the hell. In the end i simply just gave up and havent installed it until a half a year ago where i tried again and got the same problem. So i totally dropped it.

With all that i started to hate buying games, since at times they didnt work on my CD drive or other problems. I read it had alot to do with DRM and such. When i used cracked versions they worked just fine...

Well a year ago i started to know Stardock because of Ironclad waa making Sins, So i read about there NO DRM and no other stupid copy protection i was really interrested.
So i started to talk with the nice people of both companys and i started to learn ALOT about the people behind the game and learned that what i actually did was hurting the people making the games/programs. Ive never thought about it like that at all. So i felt really bad that i had pirated Galciv some time ago, tho i didnt like the game itself but still.

So in the last Year ive brought more games and programs that ive ever done. BUT when i read about eg Bioshock and its stupid rootkit i brought the game and downloaded the pirated version so i could avoid that rootkit stuff.

So now i try to buy as many games/programs as i can, but i do test them first, tho i will never ever "test before buying" anything comming from Stardock or Ironclad because of my experience with them, that made me trust/respect them and really like them as well

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Personally i think alot of people are in the same situation i was in. People simply dont know or dont take it as illegal download games and programs since its not like going into a store and taking something. As the store have an item where downloading is just data nothing physical.

This is the new age of merchandise that is farely new, and "when" i get kids they will know much better about pirating, like i know about stealing in a shop.

my 2 cents

Patents would be worse. Far worse.

Patents cost thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars in fees and legal costs to obtain; copyright is natural and inherent to any intellectual work.

Patents are frequently vague and would stifle anything even remotely similar; copyright only applies to actual copying of the code or finished product.

Patents can take years to process; copyright is instant.

Patents last for twenty years anyway, well beyond the useful life of the vast majority of software.

Anyway, the simple fact is that the engine (when made specifically for the game) and the content are generally inextricably linked. The content alone is useless without an engine to present it in the way intended--anyone pirating a game will be pirating both. And yes, there is a measure of creativity involved in coding--claiming otherwise just tells me that you've not done much (if any) coding yourself.





Bethesda licensed the Gamebryo engine from NDL/Emergent. They did not make their own, though they did modify Gamebryo. But then most licensees do modify the engines they license.




The simple solution to situations like this is not to pirate the company's future games then buy them if they're "ok". It is to simply stop buying or playing that company's games at all--a considerably simpler, more ethical, and more effective solution if you expect them to shape their act up.

I believe that all companies should be given a second chance and the benefit of the doubt. I would much rather entourage a company who had previously released the worst DRM ever made if they did a complete 360 on what they did wrong with their next game, this also sends a very strong message to other developers/publishers that quality and user friendliness is worth it.

But if they don't shape up, drive them into the ground.

I was thinking about software piracy last night and how SD's model of no cd required to play the game. I really think that it is a better model. For all of commercial (non game) software, one never requires a cd to be presence in order to use it after it has been installed.

But then there is one other thing that i was thinking about, that is iteration of many of the same titles over and over again. Take word processing as an example, majority of the people uses MS word, yes there are competitor products out there, but seriously, how many variation of a word processor do we need. Corel's word perfect and MS word does the same function. Likewise for Adobe reader, the full version. How many other variant version of pdf reader do we need when one is enough. Come the gaming software, how many different variation of RTS do we need, ever since C&C 1 game out, the basic model or premise of RTS are the same all the way to starcraft, and even to warcraft 3. GDI and NOD vs, Protos, Terrans, and Zerg. not much different, build your base, gather resources, build an army, and then take out the other guy on the map. raise and repeat from one level to the next level, same idea from one game to another. The aesthetics are different, and there are minor new differences in game mechanics. But we as consumers still go flock to our local EB games and buy the countless variations of the same type of game. I don't know about any of you, but i am glad that Sins came out, at least something different than the classic C&C template. oh and how many C&C games do we need. Maybe 200 years from now, we will see C&C 50, the resurrection of Kane for the 150th time. Now we are done with the RTS genere, well, i think the premise behind many FPS are the same, it is just that it has much better eye candies and demand better and better rigs as each iteration of the same type of game that comes out.

When can we have something like the holodeck for real. That would be really nice.

Even more disgusting is that you can't charge whatever you want for gas did you know that? Say I want to go out and buy 1000 gallons of gasoline at the going rate, and I want to make a huge loss by selling it for 1 dollar, I will be arrested for only charging a dollar. In fact it has already happen. Corporate lobbyists in all industries are disgusting.

Back more on topic, I've pirated games, sure. Like galciv2 back in the day, but when I found out that it had no drm, I went to the store right away and bought it. Likewise, I bought Oblivion they day it came out because all it had was a silly cd check. Although I don't like bethesda anymore because they sold out to consolers with the game. But I am still willing to support less uses to DRM.

There will never be a 100% foolproof DRM ever. Hackers and Crackers are just as good at what they do as the programmers are. granted there are some crappy cracks by idiots but most of the scene does well. Even though SD's stance is not to condone piracy at all, and I understand why, the system that they have in place should be a beacon the the rest of the industry. Now you have to ask the question, did sins do so great because it is a "great" game, or is it just a "good" game that is selling well because of the lack of DRM.

In my country there's a law that forbid selling stuff below the money they cost to make (specially in what comes to agriculture goods and such) and the reason for that is simple, it's no conspiracy.

In certain markets the retailer is the force that can influence offer and demand the most and thus the retailer can easily sell stuff for very low prices and then force their suppliers to sell them stuff for less. The result is that they can pretty much decide the price of things while not sacrificing profit margin (food and gas is something that doesn't repond flexibly to changes in price since everybody needs to eat, and in modern life, most people need to travel) - the only people that lose from this are the producers and the end consumers, that is, pretty much everyone else.

---

There's a similar thing going on with games. When you see a game priced in the US for 50$ and in Europe for 50€ (despite the fact that the euro is worth more) you know that the price of games has nothing to do with offer and demand or open markets, every single title is a monopoly of itself and thus can decide which price it wants irrespective of the producers (common case when the developer doesn't publish their own titles) and of the end consumers.

Now people don't need to play games, like kryo says, 50 years ago people didn't need phones, do you think that is still true?
Because 100 years ago nobody needed power, and nowadays?
And what abou gas?
Entertainment works the same way to a lesser extent, every human being needs entertainment, it's true that there are many different ways of entertainment, but if in 30 or 50 years the most commonly available of entartainment becomes games, can you still say ppl can just let go?
Television is considered a public service where i live and the companies have the legal obligation to provide you access to it. In a few years the same might apply to games.

To me, when i see pricing schemes that don't reflect "at all" the costs to produce and whatnot, i'd say that pirating is just as useful as boycotting since the end result is the same.

I don't say that people are entitled to pirate games, i only say that the other end of that economic relation isn't angelical either and more often than not, have the costumers as one of their least important concerns.

Slumping PC sales has more to do with the fact that game makers are dumbing down PC games due to the fact that they are writing console games first and then porting it to the PC. PC gamers are a more mature market and refuse to buy games that essentially stink.

I have bought Stardoc games because they are good, they have excellent post sales support (patches) and I don't need to have a CD/DVD in to play. I have no problem typing in a key to download/register and the stardoc launcher makes it easy. EA just recently started post sales support with CnC and while it isn't my cup of tea, lo and behold, people have bought the game and have continued with the expansion. Good customer service means customer "loyalty".

There is no excuse for piracy, but unless the company makes it as easy to use/play as the tools provided by piracy, then it makes things easier to excuse for many folks. Oh, and this linked article actually references one by Chris Taylor where he does advocate going to a secured server mode for PC Gaming. That was in a different article for the same site.

Don't make me puke.. EA has post sales support? I have been waiting almost a year for them to let me play multi-player. Yes I bought the game, yes I bought it blindly because I trusted the developers to make a good game. No I STILL can't play it online. I was promised a working game after the Generals debacle and what I got was Generals with a new skin and different units! EA is a prime example of the PROBLEM not the solution.

Kryo, the guy that makes the toaster oven probably thinks of his model as a work of art too, it's still a toaster oven.

The patent offices being a bureaucratic mess aren't exactly a reason to disregard patents as the logical method for protecting software either. They are a reason for an armed revolt against the government for making it impossible to patent something though. A rigidly specific patent encompassing the entire engine would protect it against piracy just the same as a copyright does now, and with a reasonable lifespan, wouldn't make criminals out of someone trying to find a replacement copy of 98 without paying more than it was worth new. Consider a properly working patent system as the, not one as equally broken as the copyright system is now.

If your engine was patented and had a short lifespan of use, you might see more developers designing them to be leased out to other companies too. The integrated designs only have to work one way, the engine should never be inextricable from the content. I'd go so far as to say it's a design flaw, but when no one bothers to use one for something else I guess it doesn't really matter.

It wouldn't be a perfect protection method of course. A patent on one toaster oven doesn't mean no one else can make a toaster oven, they can even make one nearly identical, but copyrights already have that loophole anyway, or there wouldn't be a zillion Diablo clones, some even with the same interface.

It is most unfortunate to know that Bethesda has no excuse for making such a horribly bland and boring game though...

Since you folks have briefly touched on software patents I figured a recent turn of events regards them would be of interest. A patent reform coalition is challenging the entire practice on principle. Do you want to know more? Then click here.

Additionally there is even a dedicated website, named EndSoftPatents.org on the issue to boot. Do you want to know more? Then click here.

But, if they do a complete 360 wouldn't they be doing the exact same thing as before?

I will never purchase products from Sony Online Entertainment, Lucas Arts nor Electronic Arts. The problem is, even though they've become mega-publishers the smaller studios not directly tied into them will also suffer.

StarDock/IronClad did it right. It's about time others start paying attention...

If you vocally boycott a company for user-unfriendly practices, you can be certain that they'll make it known when (if) they do cave and change their ways. No need to pirate their stuff and "check" on their progress.

I have a question..when did this whole copy protection come up, i mean as in requiring cd checks and what not in order to play a game on a pc. In my previous post, i did not ask this question, when i made the comparison between commercial software and entertainment software like games. Do the commercial software sector has as much problems with software piracy in comparison with gaming software???

I think it is pretty clear that regardless of what copy protection are in place inside a piece of software, there will be hackers and crackers whom will break those copy protection mechanism. In any piece of adobe software, it requires the user to have a set of 4 different serials to be entered at different times during installation process, keygens were made to just to generate those keys, after that, the user can download updates from the adobe server as if he bought the software themselves.

Norton software had similar security checks in place, but again, crackers providing softwares wrote explicit instructions for downloaders instructing how to bypass those security measures when activtiating the software. Same can be said for any of the Autodesk products. It should not surprised anyone that the gaming industry will not be of any match against hackers. Micrsoft tried to have windows verification scheme implemented in order to stop people pirating their product. But anyone who knows where to look can find the latest Service pack upgrades on any torrent sites. So it is pretty clear that the existing methods of copy protection scheme is not working.

But then..interestingly, when Bill Gates went to China, he tossed out his north american business model out the window. Why? he figures, if the chinese are going to pirate his software, as well as his competitors, he would rather they pirate microsoft instead of Linux. this was discussed in either one of last year's issue of Time or newsweek mag. I forgot which. The article stated that..well...as soon as Gates stop all his legal actions in china related to piracy, people really really started to preferring microsoft products more than any other. Well..for one, to get an illegal copy of windows in china, all one needs to buy is one disc. In comparison with Linux, you have to purchase a set of 6. So it would be more cost effective for pirates to sell illegal copies of windows in comparison to other OS system. In time, the cost of a purchasing a legit copy of window became extremely cheap. And the Chinese changed their opinions about Bill Gates and Microsoft very very fast. Even the chinese government loves Bill Gates too.

Hacked, cracked and pirated software is wrong and like Kryo points out it does lose the company money even if the pirate would never have bought a legit copy anyways. However, when it comes to the digital BDSM that Sony, M$, Starforce and the rest (basically everyone except Stardock and Paradox) use it really becomes a 'meh' thing and add that to all the crappy corporate sponsored copyright legislation (I think copyright now last a millennium... or is it an epoch?) that basically is about as bad as rape, manslaughter and other crimes of that sort for a vast host of venial and unknowing acts (make a tape recording of a song played through computer speakers... you've just violated the DMCA! Get a cashiers check for $250k...) Well let me just say that my goodwill towards the whole industry is as nonexistent as a Greenpeace activist's is towards Big Oil.

The makers of Bioshaock shouldn't be 'shocked' that their PC sales stink vs console because with the console you put in the disk and play the game while with the PC version they included a digital cow patty that smears itself all over your shiny computer...

No all my sympathy dried up when Starforce bricked 2 DVD writers back when those things were $200 a pop. I don't buy games that have digital bondage unless they are very unobtrusive (I can live with a disc check) and essential software like Office (which made itself a whole lot less essential with its cruddy xml non backwards compatible default file type) I buy but install a hacked version because frankly I don't trust M$ any further than I could throw Bill Gates's money if he converted it all into solid gold.

But here-in lies the problem with that, being vocal rarely ever changes anything. Look at EA as the prime example. They've been vilified for years over there practices, but do they change? No. The continue to make money from all of those that don't care about what they do, or are just ignorant of it all, and they seem to be content. On another note, I don't see how any company is losing money if someone pirates a game that they may never have bought in the first place. For instance, if I download Madden 08 and play it, they've lost no money. Thats not a genre I ever play and I could just as easily live my life without ever having paid for it. However a game like Spore is something that I would most definitely buy because thats right up my alley. If I were to pirate it, sure they'd be losing money.




I'm sorry but you can't tell me that there is no conspiracy. Lobbyist organizations are rampant in Washington. Take this article for exampleHere.
He actually makes a valid point in the article. Food isn't restricted in the same way, and it is unarguably more essential than gasoline. Why on earth the State of Minnesota would legislate something like that is ridiculous. Who are they to tell you that you can't take a super loss on something if you want to. If you want to do such a thing, the wholesaler is making out because you are buying at the set price, and the consumer is making out. No-one loses except you, and I don't see the government being very aggressive over much else that is bad for you. This is just another example of the government trying to legislate everything about our lives. Sorry for derailing from the topic here, but I couldn't resist.

is there a way that i can pirate the updates cause my legit copy i bought from wally world - i have recipt :P- happens to have a pin or reg code or w/e u want to call it that dont work and so far support hasnt helped much in aiding me with my quest to update my game

[link removed]
torrent for this game... google lol and to think i paid for my copy and it wont even register....fu$#M@#$ wal-mart

[Moderator edit: If you have issues getting registered, contact [email protected]. Post a pirate link again and there will be consequences.]

@SRSLTWTH - What is the point in posting a link to a torrent copy of Sins in this thread? If you have an issue with registration post in the Tech Support forum or email SD/IC for help. It is the right way to get help. What you did is a sure fire way to forfeit any and all help. Jacking a thread surely is not the way to get support nor is posting a torrent link for the game. Did you not lean from The StarForce fiasco last time someone did that to SD?