Did the patch really help?

I'm very satisfied with the release of patch 1.03 however i wanna see a public opinion of how well they handled the LRM spam issue, IMHO I don't think they nerfed it enough cause the price change isn't as severe as i thought it'd be and the range increase looks like they made it worse (mind you i've only checked with TEC)

What do you guys think after playing today with the new changes?
7,209 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top
Not too well, it's still happening a lot.
Reply #2 Top
I don't know, I tried spamming LRM frigs to save my life because it was 2v1 and it worked. I saw no noticeable increase in the cost or decrease in the performance of these things, because I was still cranking them out fast enough to defend my planets against an RA.
Reply #3 Top
They seem to die much easier to me to where i'm suspecting there are hidden changes to their armor or something. ;/ But i can't see the changed 1.03 entity files..
Reply #4 Top
There needs to be a public announcement when users join a public channel: Scouts and flaks are a great counter against LRM spam.

Of course, than you'd start having people bitch and moan about how their 1 flak died to 20 LRM.
Reply #5 Top

Not too well, it's still happening a lot.
End of quote

Hehe...and how many games did you get in already?

Reply #6 Top
Not too well, it's still happening a lot.
Hehe...and how many games did you get in already?
End of quote


About 4 or 5 (couple were small 1v1s). I've been playing back-to-back ever since I got the patch (and a little before) :)
Reply #7 Top
If you make light frigs then of course it's likely people will make lrms.. :/
Reply #8 Top
We had one short game in the office. You can bet on having to distribute the forces more now. I used to spam some as a shield wall. Now the light frigs are doing that and the LRMs are just to tick people off. Everyone has their way of doing things. If you see this one that's me. So far as a player I am happy.
Reply #9 Top
LRMs die really fast now. Not to flak neccessilary, but to other things, including ligh ts
Reply #10 Top
Did they get reduced hps, or...?
Reply #11 Top
I have not noticed LRM spam after the patch.I was happy to see that flak frigs can now hold their own against fighters. The AI builds a diverse fleet (on hard) and will actually defend his own planets now. As for always running away they seem to have fixed that - the AI now runs when he is almost wiped out instead of for no reason at all.

I had this game shelved untill the patch - now with the AI changes it is now fun and a challenge - keep up the great work Stardock.

So my verdict is = YES the patch helped
Reply #12 Top
No, it's just a placebo effect.
Javelis are bigger threat in 1.03 than they were in 1.02. Their health wasn't reduced, their cost was barely increased, their range was greatly increased, and TEC can now aquire ressources much more easily.
Both Assailants and Illuminators have been nerfed thought. Illums are now useless, they now cost alot more with less health than their previous already weak incarnation.
Reply #13 Top
Yeah at first It seemed to me that they were dying easier in a game with friends, all 3 of us could swear assailants had been secretly weakened.
But next games, na, was just our imagination. Jav LRM's are better than ever due to the massively buffed tec economy(which is result of the black market changes) and nerfs to other races eco, particularly vasari's(again, result of the black market changes).

Assailant spam is basically gone, but the whole vasari race is hurt so that's a bad indicator. If the market was fixed, it'd somewhat still be here. But assailant spam exsisted before due to Skirmishers, sentinels, and carriers not being an option. Skirmishers where Vasari's primary early game unit, and it was perfectly balanced how advent could counter them with much cheaper and HALF the supply defense vessals that killed them 3.5:1, and cheap rather effect scouts if you didn't want to tech or spend crystal/metal(Though, not as good a counter. They kill them 1:1 I think? and are cheaper)

Personally what I would do is have all the costs revert back to 1.02's EXCEPT for javs (275/45/25 is fine for them), all the LRMS supply increased by 1-2(Something like JAV/ILLUM/ASSAILANT be 6/7/8, or 5/6/7[yes, illum 1 less than assailant ~_~ Illum is so much weaker than them]), jav range reduced(they.. outrange.. repel.. so many abilities and ugh.. so much you used to counter them before). Make Tec need akkan to out-range repel, that's fair, some strategy and thinking element there. ;/) Making people have to upgrade fleet supply which bleeds their credits tends to work better than increasing the actual cost of a unit.
-play with their armor type some so that they are more easily destroyed by some things IE:
*have antiverylight do 150%(up from 100)
*antilight do 250%(up from 200, will boost both fighters and scouts damage against them) Or really, It'd be better to just buff scouts DPS to 4(So they'd do 8dps to lrms up from 6), 5.5 for vasari's, and buff fighters damage by 33% DPS.(How much do you see tons of fighters even for ADVENT for higher level play?)
While on the subject, bombers should have their survivability increaseD(but fighters remain the same). If someone has enough they should be able to overwhelm flaks. Currently it takes something like 6 carriers which take 2-5x more metal/crystal each than flaks to overwhelm the flaks with bombers. Taking something like 3 would be better. Fighters, on the other hand, should continue to be easily destroyed easily by flak just as they are now. Just bombers need a buff vs flak IMO. Flak currently counters bombers far better than any other ship counters another, when bombers are supposed to be SOMEWHAT better against flak? They have antiveryheavy damage type(flak are heavy, close), and bombers are light armor(not verylight like fighters). IT seemed like the right idea to make them more survivable and flaks be better at anti-fighter than anti-bomber, but it's not quite how it should be IMO.
*capital do 100%(Up from 75. Why do caps do 100% to like everything but lrms?!..)
*OR give LRMS their own armor type since so many ships share with light.

The big reason lrms are so good is that they're a good general unit, they do good against so much stuff. Light frigs, buildings, caps.. common things you would encounter. In the first week of the game light frig spam was big, after all. So people spammed lrms..
I'd say reduce Anti-Medium damage to only do 50% against structures, but that'd make lrms too weak against heavy cruisers. Part of why LRMS is so good is their destroying structures after they destroy the fleets. 75% of 11 dps of so many ships taking just 4 supply cap and are so cheap is still a ton of DPS.
-Buildings and HeavyCruisers need to stop sharing a damage type imo. :/ It'd be better if LRMS did 50% to buildings, 100% to Heavy Cruisers, not 75% to both.
Light frigs have less DPS than LRM's yet do 50% to structures vs anti-mediums 75%. Even with LRMS doing 50% instead fo 75% against structures, they'll kill structures fast, just less obscenely so. They outrange the turrets, isn't that good enough anyways even if they did horrible damage to them?

One thing not taken into account with alot of people with these damage and armor types is that lrms are already starting out with 11 or 13 dps. 75% of 13dps is very similar damage to skirmishers base 10dps. This is why they're still good against so many things.

Right now carriers don't make too great of a counter against lrms, even advents carriers, since lrms can fire on the move while they chase the slightly less agile carriers, buff to fighter damage would be nice, and scouts would be an alternative counter aswell. Flaks are a good counter to lrms, (especially with 360 firing against a ship that turns so slow) but can't kill them fast enough before they do alot of damage.

And most importantly.. buy prices increased +50% and sell prices increased +100% or +150%. It's allowing tec to spam ANYTHING not just javs while vasari is hurting.

Light frigs, capital ships, buildings, support cruisers, heavy cruisers. (while not as good against heavy cruisers as bombers, they are just as good as light frigs against support cruisers which light frigs are supposed to counter due to their high DPS to start with.). While what counters LRMs? Basically just flak. Scouts would make a decent counter to someone dropping LRMS in your base early as no tech req, and it'd give advent a boost(who is weakest vs lrms) since their scout is good and cheap, if scouts where improved. And while they'd do good vs LRMS, they'd be bad against all else except trade ships and such, so they'd make a good counter unit.