bonscott bonscott

PLEASE stop putting game files (mods, saves, etc.) in windows profile

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PLEASE stop putting game files (mods, saves, etc.) in windows profile

from Sins Forums
I know this has been brought up before but I am begging Ironclad to get the saved games, screenshots, mods and replays out of the Windows profile.  I'm on XP by the way.

This isn't about finding them as a shortcut can make that easier, but it's about disk space.

I, like most gamers I'd think, have a small C drive for just Windows and not much else and then larger D, E, etc. partitions for our programs and games.  My C drive is 15 gig for example.  Sins is quickly filling up what I have left and I have to keep cleaning it out.  Especially since I realized all the replay files in there (which seem to be created automaticly) were taking up a gig (!) and I don't play all that much.

As an IT support person I won't even bring up the fact that the larger the user profile gets the more unstable it becomes and makes Windows slower and more prone to crashing.  Oh, I guess I just did bring it up.  ;)  Seriously, it's a bad thing.  I don't even want to think about how many profiles I've had to kill and recreate due to this.  And that's in a business environment no less.

The excuse I've seen for having it in the user profile is that it must be there because of a "Games for Windows" requirement.  Then why is it that several other games I have do not store these things in the user profile?  They all store them in My Documents | My Games directory.  Civilization 4: Beyond the Sword for example.  Yes, it has a directly in my user profile but there are just a couple XML files in there.  All saved games, mods, screen shots and so forth are saved in the My Games directory.  Same goes for any other game I have that is Games for Windows certified.  So why can EA, Take Two and others "get away" with doing this?

So I implore, no...beg, Ironclad/Stardock to change this in a future patch.  Please put these disk space eating things where they belong (My Documents | My Games) and that is not in the user profile.

Thanks for a great game!
68,871 views 39 replies
Reply #26 from Stardock Forums Top
I have a suspicion that the location of the mod file is NOT hardcoded...primarily because I got it to change.

That is actually the question I have for Ironclad. Is it hardcoded or not?

I don't believe it is. I was wondering if my suspicion on how it is generated is correct, but was looking mainly for a "Yes" or "No" to that hardcoded question.
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
I have never tried it on windows, but this would be one possible solution on Linux. Might be worth a try.

Even if it does not, there may be other similar utilities meant to tackle such problems on windows...

PS: If it works, I humbly request to be presented with a space pony?
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
Found it.From Microsoft's site: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173456.aspx2.1 Follow User Account Control GuidelinesRequirementEvery executable file (that is, every file that has a .exe extension) must contain an embedded manifest that defines its execution level by including the following tag: Copy CodePer requirement 1.2, the main game and autorun executable must have the execution level of asInvoker to support Standard User contexts.User data files that have file associations registered with File Explorer must be placed in a subfolder of the folder that is specified by CSIDL_PERSONAL (also called Documents or My Documents). All other user data files must be stored in a subfolder of the folders that are specified by CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA or CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA. (These directories are hidden by default for individual users and for all users.)RationaleA user's Windows experience is more secure if applications run only with the permissions needed.______________________________________________________________________________________That part"All other user data files must be stored in a subfolder of the folders that are specified by CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA or CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA. (These directories are hidden by default for individual users and for all users.)"is where the restriction is.In other words, Ironclad and Stardock are following the rules, at least as far as I can tell. I'm neither a developer or a lawyer, so I'm not sure. But, it does seem, based on what I changed, that this is where the restriction is. I don't know about the other games/companies, unless the rules recently changed.To summarize - Complain to Microsoft.
End of quote


Thank you for this. This is *exactly* what I've been talking about. Things like saved games, game replays and such should go to the *My Documents* directory. These files have file associations with the game and thus go to My Documents | My Games (or they should go there anyway). Sin for some reason does not and stuffs them in the profile which as I read it is actually against the Game for Windows recommendation.

Nothing to complain to Microsoft about as from what I can tell My Documents is where these files should go and that is what I'm complaining about that most of the the Sins files should go there. I'm not trying to bust Ironclad or Stardock's chops, I'm simply trying to get things out of the user profile that don't have to be there.

And there certainly is no reason for Mods to go in the user profile, those are *user* generated files as it is and nothing to do with the game being certified.
Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top
It says that "User data files that have file associations registered with File Explorer must be placed in a subfolder of the folder that is specified by CSIDL_PERSONAL (also called Documents or My Documents). "

I don't know, but are you sure this applies to Saved Games and Replays?

To me, from reading that, those files actually fall into "All other user data files must be stored in a subfolder of the folders that are specified by CSIDL_LOCAL_APPDATA or CSIDL_COMMON_APPDATA. (These directories are hidden by default for individual users and for all users)."

They seem to be "ALL OTHER USER DATA FILES" instead of "Data files with file associations registered with File Explorer". To me, "Data Files with File associations registered with File Explorer" means files that you can click on and open the program, like a Word Document or Excel Document. If we knew what the heck those terms meant, then maybe it would be clearer.

Seems to me that they are in the mandated place. Obviously, that's not your view. I can't say who is correct, but I can point out that the developers have gone with the interpretation that they felt they had to.

Again, not a lawyer or developer, just a curious consumer.
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
If the mod folder location isn't hardcoded....I'm going to find it and change it. I'm writing a search algorithm now. I just automatically assumed that path would be hardcoded.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
Windows NT is a multi-user operating system. We are no longer using single-user operating systems like Windows 98 and as such, it's well beyond time to adjust to that fact and plan accordingly. The Windows Profile is where programs are supposed to save user-specific data such as maps, mods and saved-games.

It's bad programming practice to write your program like it owns the computer and programs storing files all over your computer willy-nilly like it owns the place are the principle cause of incompatibilities in Windows Vista.

My suggestion is to look up NTFS junction points. You can transparently redirect access from one area to another; anything saved in the Sins folder in the user profile actually will get stored on whatever drive you want it to be with a junction point.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
My suggestion is to look up NTFS junction points.
End of quote

I provided a link in Reply #27.
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
Damicatz, in order to do what you're suggesting properly, relocating the mods folder is not possible under XP Pro due to the limitations on which folders can be mapped to another location. It appears possible on a Windows system running active directory, but that's not a component of XP Pro. I'm not aware of any XP Pro feature that can accomplish what we're looking to do. It is possible under other OS's, but not Windows, unfortunately.

Btw, the search came up empty, as expected.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
bonscott, maybe I'm missing entirely what you're trying to say, but there is no general "My Documents" or "Application Data" folder for all users at once. There is one for each and every user account that's on a modern Windows machine. Thus, I believe Sins is in compliance because it is putting its info in the appropriate Application Data folder (which resides in each user profile).

For hahas, I'm looking at my games that have Games For Windows logos, and here's the scoop:

Crysis: save games are under My Documents/My Games in my local profile.

Frontlines: same as above

Company of Heroes: same as above

Bioshock: save games are directly under My Documents in my user profile.

Supreme Commander: same as Sins

Thus, they all have user data, such as saved games on the C drive under the user profile, even though each and every one of these games is installed on my D or E partitions.

Other games readily on hand, such as Valve games, Guild Wars, Jade Empire, BF2, BF2142, and STALKER, do not have the GFW logo.

-HM
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
Damicatz, I take what I said back. I have a solution for Windows XP users. I'm currently testing it to see if it works. Last time I tried this in Windows it blue screened me when the program tried to access a file in the linked folder.

I will post shortly after I test Uzii's mod.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
I totally agree. Would it really be that difficult to see if the user is logged in as an administrator or has suitable rights and then at least offer the option to save game files in the install folder/savegames? Why aren't they at the very least saved in My Documents/My Games like a few other games I could mention? It isn't for technical reasons!

Currently save games and the auto saves and auto records can end up taking hundreds of Mb and worst of all they're not intuitive to find or get to!
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
bonscott, maybe I'm missing entirely what you're trying to say, but there is no general "My Documents" or "Application Data" folder for all users at once. There is one for each and every user account that's on a modern Windows machine. Thus, I believe Sins is in compliance because it is putting its info in the appropriate Application Data folder (which resides in each user profile).For hahas, I'm looking at my games that have Games For Windows logos, and here's the scoop:Crysis: save games are under My Documents/My Games in my local profile.Frontlines: same as aboveCompany of Heroes: same as aboveBioshock: save games are directly under My Documents in my user profile.Supreme Commander: same as SinsThus, they all have user data, such as saved games on the C drive under the user profile, even though each and every one of these games is installed on my D or E partitions.Other games readily on hand, such as Valve games, Guild Wars, Jade Empire, BF2, BF2142, and STALKER, do not have the GFW logo.-HM
End of quote


If Sins would put saved games and other information under My Documents like most other GFW games then all would be well with the world.

Here's the difference and perhaps some of the confusion. I was talking about My Documents as if it's not in the profile.

When I say "stored in the profile" I mean Documents and Settings\user\blah...blah where Sins stores it's stuff.

Now technically the My Documents directory is also in the profile *by default* but as I pointed out above it's location is easily changed unlike anything else in the profile. So Sins can still very easily keep the GFW requirement of being in the user profile by putting stuff in the My Documents directory (like just about every other game on the planet) which then has the side benefit for many of us that have My Documents pointed to somewhere other then Documents and Settings\user\My Documents (like mine is on my G drive partition).

There is no downside to Ironclad and Stardock and only benefits for us users.

Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
I have an operational solution to this problem. Please visit my post here: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/303977 for the full details. This will allow you to use symbolic links in Windows XP (maybe Vista and 2000 as well) in order to move things that are eating up data in the local settings folders to more appropriate places such as other hard drives or directories.