UrzaEnderThrawn UrzaEnderThrawn

1.04 Thoughts

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1.04 Thoughts

from Sins Forums
Okay, so I'm fully aware from reading the forums that everyone else has posted thoughts. However, I figured it wouldn't hurt to post my own. I enjoy Sins quite a bit, but there would need to be more than a few additions to the game in order to push it well over games like Civilization 4 in my book.

First off - diplomacy. It's pretty bare bones right now. Civ4 does diplomacy excellently (if you haven't played the game, it's well worth it just for diplomacy). However, I'm looking at Space Empires V as a model of just what diplomacy could accomplish. I'm quoting from their site when I say...

"You can offer peace treaties, declare war, ask for help against another civilization (such as help defend against or request that they go to war against another society), trade, offer, and accept gifts, and engage in a few other options. In Space Empires V you can do all of that and much more, and with significantly more depth for each option. For example, when you enter into a treaty with another civilization you can attach almost any condition you can think of to it. A treaty between equals may require both parties to share all intelligence, refitting and resupply capabilities, technology below a designated level, mutual defense, maps of systems and minefields, and such. But if one party feels they have a significant upper hand, they may make demands such as limiting the other civilization's access to their systems, forcing the weaker party to provide more access to information and technology than they will receive in return, or preventing the weaker society from engaging in further research. Other conditions can involve moral restrictions, such as a ban on viral warfare or bombarding planets."

Wouldn't that be a great addition to Sins, which has a great hold on graphics, combat, and ship balances?

Here's a screenshot from Civilization 4:  math.mercyhurst.edu/~traley/images/influence_data.bmp

Explanation: When you mouse over an empire's name, it gives you your relations with them.  It seems that Sins would already use some sort of algorithm for influence, so why not display it?  My leader's name is Bendak, by the way.

Secondly - the economy. I quite enjoy the Black Market concept, and I've abused it several times, but your empire's economy needs more abilities than just the trade buildings. For instance - why aren't there natural resources that can be mined? If gold is found on a planet, it should raise your income slightly, as well as provide some modicum of happiness to your empire for having a precious resource. The same process with, say, space sheep - you found them, so it gives you an increase in food production (and therefore population).

Here's another screenshot from Civilization 4: math.mercyhurst.edu/~traley/images/trade_data1.bmp

Explanation: Should be self-evident, but it's the diplomacy screen.

Thoughts, anyone?

By the way, is there any way to embed an image in a forum?  It doesn't register the HTML code (<img src="">)
49,579 views 37 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
My Opinion:

If diplomacy had trading technologies it would be awesome. It would create a whole new aspect to multiplayer. I don't know how this would effect the multiplayer stream but it would be fun to see how the dev's create and re-evaluate.

cheers,
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
I would LOVE to see a diplomacy overhaul in 1.04

Sammual
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
One word, groundcombat. LOL
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
One word, groundcombat. LOL
End of quote


Space Pony Marine Invasions?
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
What Sins gave us was a flat, 3d illusion of a 2d world with little in the line of animation or activity.
End of quote

What Sins gives us is a large scale interplanetary war game that's practical to manage. Having planets that orbit the star could quickly get confusing since they'd never be in the same place, and phase lanes between planets actually make for a tactically interesting game. Think of what a nightmare it would be to try and defend a planet when attackers could literally come from any direction.

How about this: put your money where your mouth us and give us a game design that has the features you apparently want but is still as easy to play and manage as Sins.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
My Opinion:If diplomacy had trading technologies it would be awesome.
End of quote

Except that the technology trees are not the same between races, so I'm not sure how that'd work out.
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
One word, groundcombat. LOL
End of quote


that would be crazy. imagine having an option of zooming even farther down onto the planet where you can go supreme commander on your enemies ass while your fleet is still fighting up in space. freaking awesome. but it aint gonna happen folks. although that could be stardock and ironclad's next game. "Sins of a Solar and Planetary Empire" lol. Having to choose custom invasion and landing zones, arial support, bombarding enemies on the ground with Marza's if you win over the space battle, city invasions...ohh la la. fat chance
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
Keep in mind the requirements that Supreme Commander forced on us players. There's no way Sins could implement the same ground warfare and hope to keep the same low requirements.
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
How about this: put your money where your mouth us and give us a game design that has the features you apparently want but is still as easy to play and manage as Sins.
End of quote



If I *had* the money to design a game, I certainly wouldn't do a Sins remake, I would do a NWN remake with an engine much more similiar to WOWs than Diablo's, and actually have all the skills represented in your character movements, such as run speed, or how high (or far) you jump when you press the jump key, implement the fly spell (or flying mounts) etc. etc. etc.

But that is a little off topic.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
To Urza:

Interesting. I'm not sure about the specifics, but that screenshot does make me think that the AI in Sins ought to factor in more things when considering their friendliness, instead of basing it solely on how many missions you've done for them. Maybe they already do, but I don't know much about the AI negotiation logic. Especially, I see what you mean about an empire's strength. A strong empire might choose to ally with a weaker one depending on its location and situation, but in return may not offer much assistance, but rather server as a protector or something.

I still think having several different resources would make the game tedious; however, what you said about the Adamantium is interesting. I like the idea of there being a rare resource found only in specific locations which is necessary to build specific ships or conduct certain research. The planets which have such a resource would be highly contested among the factions, similar to how artifacts work, I suppose.

This is all very theoretical, as I'm not sure about a detailed or technical concept for implenting these ideas. However, I see where you're coming from, and I think you have some good ideas.
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
How about this: put your money where your mouth us and give us a game design that has the features you apparently want but is still as easy to play and manage as Sins. If I *had* the money to design a game, I certainly wouldn't do a Sins remake...
End of quote

I'm not talking about making an actual game. The phrase "put your money where your mouth is" is just a figure of speech. I'm talking about putting together a design document of how a game could theoretically be made that'd address whatever failings you feel exist in Sins. A common complaint is that Sins doesn't take advantage of the Z-axis, or that the map isn't dynamic with moving objects. I'm just curious if anybody has any idea of how to make a game with those elements but is still manageable and as easy to play as Sins.
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
Hey all! New to the game and new to the forums *waves*

Agreed, there is a lot of room for improvement with diplomacy but there's only so much we can expect in a v1.x release. So at the very least, slightly more believable behaviour would be good. Example: I totally backstabbed my Vasari buddies of 4 hours by breaking the ceasefire and unleashing 6 Novaliths on them.

Then they tried to intimidate me into giving them 200 metal and asked me for a trade alliance haha.

Right up until their very last planet our relations were at about 60% and they were asking me to cough up credits. Funny, but a little strange :)

Trading is also just dying to be expanded upon. Did anyone ever play Escape Velocity Nova? Great little 2D trading game (star map exactly like Sins). Every planet had unique resources and you had to find your own trade routes that'd give you maximum profit.

Maybe if Sins had a handful of basic commodity types; metals, industrial goods, food, adn the game engine randomly (or not so) populated the colonisable planets with them.

OOOoh and also just thought - as part of diplomacy, ships as gifts??

Would be nice to hand over command of a cap ship to another player in times of need.

Or as an apology for 'lith'ing their empire if you're me hehehe.

But yes. Love the game. Love it love it love it. Off to play a bit more before bed now!

**Edit: oh and last one - is there any way to demand resources from the AI like they do to me every five minutes??? If not, that should be in there too. The AI could assess what it knows of your military strength and decide on a response...