9 vs 1, Hard AI, Locked teams attempt

(images, little storyboard and replays)

Greets,

Ok fingers crossed this doesn't wreck the forum...

So I decided it'd be fun to try a game against nine hard AI locked to the same team. No idea why. For fun? ;) Here's what happened:

Opponents: 9 random locked to the same team @ hard setting
Chosen race: Advent
Resources: Normal
Speed: Normal
Map: Random huge 102 planets
Mission: To outright squish the other races

And so the massochism begins:

After a fairly unevenful start, fighting off the odd cap ship here and there, I find myself in a nice little corner of one of the five star systems. My first order of the day was to fortify the two choke points bordering my territory. (a not so impressive four planets and two asteroids) Little did I know that in over four hours time, I'd still have those same 6 planetoids.



I knew it wasn't going to be a walk in park, but six hours later it was looking grim. I still had only managed to put together two fleets worthy of combat. One of them was busy defending choke point one, and one defending choke point 2. At this point, choke point 1 had taken such a beating it was getting difficult to keep the replacement ships coming, and choke point 2 had been all but decimated.

Several capital ships and scores of frigates were lost and then replaced to the detriment of my waning economy. Short term, survival was about selling over-priced metal on the black market for credits. With my metal drying up however, this wasn't going to be an option for long. With economic research completed by this stage, the only option that would give any hope of medium term survival was expansion from choke point 2 with a fleet that was far from combat ready.



Taking the chance while it was there, the meagre fleet at choke 2 was ordered out to expand to the west with no backup plan in place, Leaving its home behind and undefended was a risk that had to be taken. Meanwhile back at choke 1, scouts show that a large force from five factions are amassing, ready to attack from three directions. With the attacks getting stronger and larger over the past hour and a half, this is going to be the one that breaks the back of my defense fleet. A pre-emptive strike was launched from choke 1 with the intention of at least delaying an overwhelming attack.



The pre-emptive stike hit three out of five factions (approximately 35% of the gathering force) Meanwhile a large amount of credits and research time are pumped into the Deliverance project with some hope of easing the pressure of expansion.



An hour and a half later - choke 2 failed miserably at its task of expansion, even with the assistance of two Deliverance engines. With only one stable planet to show for all its efforts, its ships couldn't be replaced fast enough, and the planets it had left behind were being hammered.

A new, third fleet had to be ccommissioned to fend off the invaders, with the remains of fleet 2 being left on the new front line in the hopes that it could eliminate the first faction (the light blue Vasari) in a series of hit and runs, along with the two new Deliverance Engines. The Engines wouldn't last long. Rebels appearing in my home system will make sure of that. With no funds to fortify properly, metal stores now officially falling short of whats required to replace lost ships, the expansion plan entirely failed, it isn't looking good.



Meanwhile, back at choke 1, things were becoming desperate. With the attacks becoming so large now, stationed fleet one can't cope.



With Deliverance no longer an option, the fleet now split into 3, choke 1 being overwhelmed and choke 2 unable to withstand another attack, it's now or never. A plan is formed to remove the ability for enemy factions to move quickly between choke 1 and 2 using the wormholes pictured. The Deliverance engines had done their job, and so choke 2 should only have to deal with the attacks of one faction. Shredded fleet #2 can stay on station there.




(Note this is where the MopySruggle replay begins - download at the bottom)

Fleet 3 is ordered to take up offensive positions ready to support choke 1, removing a single TEC (yellow) colony in the process. Struggling fleet 2 stays on station with orders to stave off any attacks from the west for as long as possible. At this point, the multi-fleet, multi-faction attack I'd been dreading looked imminent on choke 1. The only chance of survival was to remove points marked with green X's and form new choke points, restricting enemy movement at the same time.



And so the hostiles arrive at choke 1, where first fleet prepares to make its brave stand. Its been defending this point for more than ten hours now. With expansion all but impossible, with no sign of new ships out of the dock due to a crippled economy, outnumbered and outgunned, surely there's no surviving this one. The only hope is forcing a retreat.



Mallice and Cleansing Brilliance their only hope..



Failure! With just a third of the hostile fleet decimated, the retreat doesn't happen. If choke 1 is lost, the enemy has free access to the whole of the empire with no possible retort.



Fleet 1 stays to fight to the last frigate. An intense firefight ensues, still outnumbered two to one, the chances of survival are slim.. but there's a chance.



With heavy losses taken, fighter swarms taking out the system defences, and the metal supply 'just' being able to fire out one or two more frigates, there's one chance left to force a retreat. With Cleansing Brilliance finally ready again, the failing Progenitor fires off its last Mallice before losing its hull integrity and exploding, priming the invading fleet to receive a full force assault from the Radiance super weapon...



Meanwhile, re-enforcements gather around the adjacent dead asteroid, ready to smash through choke point 1



Finally - Cleansing Brilliance and the final act of Mallice by the Progenitor at choke 1 did its job. The hostile forces retreat - only to be replace by the waiting re-enforcements. The defense fleet is failing, and with all suply exhausted, one capital ship down, and no new frigates rolling off the production line, its the end of the road



With the retreat of the TEC (purple) and the need for assistance at choke 1, the awaiting fleet 3 makes its move. Jumping to the adjacent gravity well, and the source of enemy re-enforcements, and the destination for retreating hostile fleets. Its objective is simple, to cut off enemy re-enforcements, and ensure choke 1 sees no more attacks.



Fleet 3 arrives to face four factions. Outgunned just two to one, this now experienced group of frigates and capital ships can be confident of success. Time is of the essence however. Choke 1 is falling fast and needs assistance.



An unexpected side effect of cutting off retreating hostiles - the TEC (purple fleet) have jumped away from fleet 3, back in to choke point 1. Now facing three factions, more heavy casualties cannot be avoided.



Fleet 3 is succeeding. This could become the first major success of this campaign. Two factions have been removed as a threat, with only a capital ship or two remaining, one faction retreated entirely (dark green TEC) and the other two.. it was just a matter of time. If the Unity survives this engagement, there will surely be another like it soon, and recovery will become a priority. As much of fleet 1 needs to be saved as possible



With the combined efforts of fleets 1 (at choke 1) and fleet 3 (assaulting re-enforcement points used by the enemy) the invaders are finally pushed back. It's over. But they'll be back, Fleet supply is going to take a long time to recover, and the economy needs a boost. Badly.



Choke 2 is lost, and fleet 2 is forced back to it's original position by a huge fleet. They didn't stand a chance and were decimated. It was a small price to pay however. They may be able to recover in time. Now is the chance to gain from this situation. Whats left of fleet 1 was moved from the old choke point 1 to take the TEC (dark green) planets to the North.

If the enemy wants re-enforcements now, they'll have to send them through the star. A minor economy boost, but a anything is welcome at this point. A new choke point is established by fleet 3. The geen crosses represent old enemy re-enforcement points that were taken out during the raid.



Some time later... After re-building and fortifying the new choke point 1, and having the time to re-enforce choke point 2 and carry out a successful expansion mission, wiping out half of the Advent (Dark blues) planets to the west of the star system (on the back of the new econimic boost) and establish a solid income for the first time, trouble hits the cursed fleet 1.



Outgunned 5 to 1 and with no re-enforcements or daring assists impossible, will they survive overwhelming odds for a second time?



---- End

Um.. well no is the short answer :P The purples smashed through that fleet and.. well that's another story.

I'm still trying to sort out the recordings, but here's a couple;

http://www.efraxis.com/recordings.zip

MopyStruggle.record is the actual recording from 7.jpg and onwards if you want to see it in real time (from where the yellow roid is taken by fleet 3).
MopyEnd.record is the end of the 9vs1 locked teams, hard AI game. I won't spoil what happened in the end.

Anyway, I haven't had that much fun since playing IG1 back in the late 90's. It resembled trying to hold off the Garthogs and their ridiculous non stop invasions. I don't remember very many games for long. IG1's epic campaign I do remember, and this I will remember in 10 years time. So that's my little tribute to the Devs for creating such a cool game, and congrats to anyone who read/watched this far without tl;dr.

Thanks for reading
Mopy

PS There will be typos, sowies. I'll fix them later if there's an edit button.
66,929 views 37 replies
Reply #1 Top
Very cool, I enjoyed following through your story of death. I might try the same sometime. Maybe with an ally just to make things easier/intersting.
Reply #2 Top
Very cool, I enjoyed following through your story of death. I might try the same sometime. Maybe with an ally just to make things easier/intersting.
End of quote


:D Highly recommend it. Although the story of death turned out rather well. Won it in the end as per the MopyEndGame replay. Still would have been just as enjoyable otherwise. The first 15 hours were the best. Once the first galaxy was conquered it was just a matter of time.

Glad to see one person read anyway :)
Nightly,
Mopy

Reply #3 Top
That was awesome.
Reply #4 Top
If you werent the Advent i might have cry'd. TEC fanboy here :P
Reply #6 Top
Now, onto unfair!
Reply #7 Top
I agree - that was a ton of fun to read! Hate to make you go through all that pain again, but it would be fun to see you do this with other races as well! :) Great story!
Reply #8 Top
Oh my god dude, that was epic. Great read! I'm a work atm, but I'ma download the recordings as soon as I get home.

How many days did it take you to do this? Also, what frigs\cruisers did you use primarily in your fleets? Illuminators and Crusaders or what?
Reply #9 Top
What an awesome, epic read.

Thanks for taking the time to post and capture all that.

-- Retro
Reply #10 Top
That really was awesome. I will definitely try this some time. Good work on choosing advent. Definitely most powerful race per capita.

GJ. Do u also play sins online?
Reply #11 Top
Currently working on 8v2 as TEC, kinda wish I hadn't put that ally in there, but oh well. I'm about 3 hours in. My ally is set to fortification type and is holed in on his homeworld. I hope to free him soon, but he is in another star system... I had 4 fleets defending various places each with a capital flagship, but after colonizing about 9 planets I managed to get some definite chokepoints and could merge them into 2 fleets. After getting those chokepoints the enemy really stocked up on the heavy cruisers and any attack I make on them is drawn out to the point that I end up getting hit from a different angle by a different enemy fleet, usually of siege frigates, while I'm fighting. I can't afford to split the fleets up for defense and offense at the moment, so I figured I would get Insurgency, and hope that will distract the enemy some. I'll eventually get a novalith cannon or two and see how the enemy reacts to those :P

Anyway, I'm havin fun, adios.
Reply #12 Top
shockingly amazing story. Battles are as big if not bigger than SupCom. this is all in 1.02 right?
Reply #13 Top
Posted March 16, 2008 20:49:56

Unless it takes him 4 days to write the post, it's 1.3
Reply #15 Top
I've been threatening to have a go at a 9v1 hard AI, with the 9AI locked against me. i've played some maps against 9 unlocked hard AI, where after a while they effectively gang up on me anyway, but the hour or so before this happens allows you sufficient breathing room to set up good defenses.

I will say, though, that the map you are playing seems a good one to try on. You have a volcanic planet and an ice planet, as well as only two entry-points to your initial system-set. Not every randomly-generated map is as turtle-friendly as that one.

I think this scenario is the ultimate challenge. I'm surprised you're not using point-defenses to bog down fleets in your choke-points though. You can build patches of defenses with heavily-overlapping firing solutions, and keep your fleets close by on 'local-area-defense-only' mode. The point defenses are tough little bleeders, and will take the load off your attacking forces. They are quite metal-heavy though, so work best when you have an excess of metal.
Reply #17 Top
Now, onto unfair!
End of quote


After you ;)I think I better move onto real world work.

I agree - that was a ton of fun to read! Hate to make you go through all that pain again, but it would be fun to see you do this with other races as well! Great story!
End of quote


I'd be interested to see if its possible without Mallice and Cleansing Brilliance combo's. Maybe in the summer sometime, although I'm sure it will have been done it by then.

Oh my god dude, that was epic. Great read! I'm a work atm, but I'ma download the recordings as soon as I get home.How many days did it take you to do this? Also, what frigs\cruisers did you use primarily in your fleets? Illuminators and Crusaders or what?
End of quote


:) Total game time was about 33hours in the end. I don't get much time to play due to work, so that was spread over several weeks. There were still three small star systems left when 1.03 came out, but I decided to finish anyway.

The primary frigate used for the first three hours were Disciples. After about four hours I managed to replace them with Illums. I did try Destras but they were expensive, and the AI concentrated fire on them too much. So instead of coming out of a battle with one or two heavily damaged caps, I'd come out less the Destras I went in with and not a scratch on the caps. A roaming group of 5 did come in handy for dealing with insurgence though.

That really was awesome. I will definitely try this some time. Good work on choosing advent. Definitely most powerful race per capita.GJ. Do u also play sins online?
End of quote


Agreed about the Advent. Nah I don't play online. I'd like to, but being on call for work, I'd end up being known for leaving practically every game.

shockingly amazing story. Battles are as big if not bigger than SupCom. this is all in 1.02 right?
End of quote


1.02 yep. The plan was to finish before 1.03 was released, but it didn't work out.

I've been threatening to have a go at a 9v1 hard AI, with the 9AI locked against me. i've played some maps against 9 unlocked hard AI, where after a while they effectively gang up on me anyway, but the hour or so before this happens allows you sufficient breathing room to set up good defenses.I will say, though, that the map you are playing seems a good one to try on. You have a volcanic planet and an ice planet, as well as only two entry-points to your initial system-set. Not every randomly-generated map is as turtle-friendly as that one.
End of quote


Agreed. To be fair, the map, advent combos and the AI mix was in my favour. The only thing against was the number of AI really. Now if there were more than two choke points, and if all the AI had acted like purple, dark green and yellow (sending capped fleets to say hello) and without Advent combo's. Possible maybe, but not by me :P


I think this scenario is the ultimate challenge. I'm surprised you're not using point-defenses to bog down fleets in your choke-points though. You can build patches of defenses with heavily-overlapping firing solutions, and keep your fleets close by on 'local-area-defense-only' mode. The point defenses are tough little bleeders, and will take the load off your attacking forces. They are quite metal-heavy though, so work best when you have an excess of metal.
End of quote


Point defense was used a lot to fortify choke 1 early on. When the AI started getting large numbers of fighters and bombers it became a problem though. They'd jump in, and sit on the edge of the well while the swarms took out the emplacements. Two repair bays didn't stop it, so I had to ditch the fortifications.

I decided on stationing the fleet at the edge of the grav well, and giving it a carrier with the fighter defense ability, which turned out to be less expensive in the long run. Lots of fortification use elsewhere though, just not for choke 1 :)

Anyway, cheers for all the cool comments
Have a good one, :CONGRAT:
Mopy

Reply #18 Top
Excellent read Mopy! It inspired me to try the same with unlocked teams and me as the Vasari. The first 2 hours were a struggle as I wasn't able to expand beyond my solar system but I was able to eliminate one AI and take over his planets. I think this was the only thing that saved me from getting overwhelmed early.

Whomever says the AI sucks in this game has not tried a 9v1 hard or unfair. About 6 hours into my current game and I've taken out about 2 factions, the problem is one of the factions I've killed is in another solar system. So it is hard to defend this new outpost and those in my home solar system.

The only complaint I have regarding the AI is the way it prioritizes targets. It seems that the AI spread fires instead of focus firing on you Cap Ships. I usually focus fire on the strongest cap ship and micromanage the abilities of my fleet and unless I am severly outnumbered, i.e. two very large fleets from two allied factions, I am able to win most of my fleet battles. I've only lost 2, maybe 3 cap ships and killed 20 or so.

Hope to try this on unfair when I am done.
Reply #19 Top
Excellent recap and congrats on the win! I read every word and thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm working on my own 7 vs. 1 Hard AI game but I haven't dared lock the teams. I'll need a buddy or two along the way ;)
Reply #21 Top
Hahaha! Awesome!!!

I've played 1v9 hard AI on locked teams as Advent before as well and the match took me 20 something hours so I know your pain, suffering, and enjoyment. :P

Damn deliverance engines and their inability to do physical damage!!!!
Reply #22 Top
It would be interesting to see how this would've turned out were you Vasari. I have a suspicion that in a game like this, odds for survival are much higher with them, thanks to phase gates and RA.

Of course, as you said, you did win regardless. Props.
Reply #23 Top
I tried watching the replays. Invalid save file I'm running 1.03
End of quote


Yep, 1.02 I'm afraid. Only just patched to 1.03 after making the post. :( Sowies.

Damn deliverance engines and their inability to do physical damage!!!!
End of quote


Exactly what I was thinking after building the first ten or so. You read my mind.

It would be interesting to see how this would've turned out were you were Vasari.
End of quote


Funny you should mention that. I tried Vasari quickly after I made this post, and couldn't get to grips with them, even vs 1 AI. I had to try an Advent game to convince myself the AI wasn't just super smart after patch and it was fine.

Turns out I just don't understand Vasari in the slightest :P


Reply #24 Top
Excerpt from reply #18 :

Whomever says the AI sucks in this game has not tried a 9v1 hard or unfair.
End of quote


 :SURPRISED: 

A quantity of NINE allied comps is required to illustrate that the quality of the Sins A.I. does not suck ?!!

 :NOTSURE: 

The rest of this thread is great, especially, of course, the awesome time & trouble the OP took to deliver us this epic illustration of human skill & courage.
Reply #25 Top
Wow! That post was so good I had to sign-up for the forum just to express my admiration. That was enough to convince me that I have to try this game! Fantasic! :CONGRAT: