Advent Research?

from Sins Forums
In 2 days of playing, all Advent, about 15 games, here's what I've learned so far, and here are some questions about researching tech.

The first tech I research is usually Ice or Volcanic planet stuff. I think that's a given, unless everything's asteroids. I'll dump a point into Harmony/Perception/Knowledge Aggregation to speed up research, and then pretty much leave the whole side of Harmony alone.  I haven't played a game long enough yet where I've been able to explore it. I usually hit Aeria Drones, Defense Vessels and Repair Platforms next, then buy Basic Shield and Refined Lasers. At this point, it's planet building and if I haven't gotten rushed by a TEC guy, I'll spend a good bit of time here. I usually get a Radience cap ship to start, and a few Disciples, but just enough to discourage the rushers. Somewhere in here I'll also pick up Illuminator tech, and after that it's fleet building 101. The fleet I build isn't to fight with by the way, because I've learned the hard way that Advent doesn't have game until I get more tech.

By now someone's typically knocking at my door, or my team's wondering what I'm doing. I'll throw money into PsiTech Shields and Burst Lasers, pick up Guardian Design for my guardians, then Steal Antimatter and Inspired Reactor Design, and then it's more fleet building and then off to help out.

Here's where the game usually ends.

Now, I have to admit I've rarely gotten the chance to pick up Destra or Subjugator cruisers. By the time I purchase Reactor Design, everyone is pushing fleets, vying for their End Game. Myself, I'm bouncing between planets where I have Repair Platforms at, and back to an opposing fleet while all of my resources are going to fleet upkeep.

This is just about standard for me. Like I said, I've only played about 15 games but this seems to work best for me. I'm not the toughest kid on the block, but then I'm playing Advent and I know this. What this strategy does for me is keep me alive throughout the short game, because this seems to be how it gets played here. Short, fast and honest. I hardly ever touch the Hostility/Substance tech, and never go into Harmony tech. There's just no point, the game's run too fast.

What I don't like about the Advent tech is that gaining access to it allows you just to survive. It evens the score, when I feel it should instead be allowing me to dominate in some way. I'm guessing there's a better way to it. And this is my question. What's your path to Advent research?
strategy
7,987 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Advent is a little weird. Their big showstopping power comes from levelling their cap ships. Malice + brilliance = lots and lots of pain for them. It may even result in wiping out their entire fleet.

By that means, you almost want them to keep attacking you while you stay on the defensive. That way, you get some very nice experience for your ship as long as they don't kill you. They're the toughest race to play well and their end game research is not nearly as good as the other races.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Yup, I second Jinx on this...Advent have a harder time early game, but luckily they defend fairly well with their cheap, low cap defense ships. Figure out your capital ship synergies and get them to turbo-charge your fleet. End game, you will have one of the nastiest fleets out there using combos of Malice, Cleansing "Superbeam" (forget name), Vengeance, Iconus guardians, Progenitor shield restore...etc. You will start chewing up larger enemy fleets with less losses. Of course, on smaller maps, the game might not go on this long....
Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
My take on it, as a primarily Advent player (although not a particularly good one, by my standards).

It's good to pick up the shielding early, you need it on the way to the Guardian and really pays off in earlier fights where the added regeneration can come into play. If you're Crystal rich you should often look at getting the first levels of hulls and lasers, since neither will cost you any Metal (Credits and Metal are usually being eaten by producing Disciples, afterall). Avoid going further with the weapons techs though early in the game, they only increase the damage in 5% increments, cost a bundle, and tie up your research.

Steal Anti-Matter is situational, it can mess up a capital, but unless you're using a Capital that will befit significantly from it (like the Progenitor) or the enemy capital is particularly dangerous due to it's abilities (again, like the Progenitor) it might not always be good to snatch up early. But not always, so be careful on that one.

I wouldn't worry too much about Inspired Reactor Design, at least not that early in the game. It's nice to have, especially when you're fielding a number of Capital Ships and Guardians, but earlier in the game the Crystal, Metal and time spent on researching them is often better spent elsewhere (for the cost of the first two levels of Inspired Reactor Design, you could research the Destra Heavy Cruiser, and those things pack a very nice punch). I would recommend looking into Heavy Cruisers and other T5 things (like the Guardians Repel Ability) before jumping at Inspired Reactor Design, especially if you're using Steal AntiMatter already.

For Temple of Harmony (Civic) Tech, particularly on larger maps, you should consider getting another Temple of Harmony so you can put down Trade Ports as soon as it's feasible. It requires one more than the two required to research Volcanic and will eat a Logistics slot that could be used for more Temples of Hostility, but it also will pay off in fairly short order. I occasionally will put down a single Communications Temple in a central location in my territory to try to get the advantages of fighting in culture, but really using a Logistics slot, the time, and the cost can be risky.

Advent do have it pretty rough early game, teching to harder hitting ships and avoiding techs that don't have more immediate benefits can help you hang on, though.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Advent is tough to play, but rewarding if you can survive the early game. I usually tech to drone hosts and Defense Vessels as soon as is feasible, because it's the only way to beat a rush. I also usually get the tier 1 shield, laser, and hit point upgrades.

The key is to get your caps upgraded. Effective Advent fleets also tend to be cap heavy. A Progenitor, Halcyon, and Radiance working in concert with interceptors and bombers from your drone hosts is pretty potent. Add a few Disciples for front line duty. If you can afford them, a small handful of Illuminators makes a nice addition to your anti-cap abilities. Put all of that together with and manage it well and you can lay out a lot of damage, fast.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Two levels of hostility, three levels of harmony. If you are going to rush a max level tech (possible with your preference for deserts), go hostility, grab the autoleveling tech, then destroy your 8th hostility...then max out on cap ships as you can.

First fleet is Mothership with sheild tech with desciples to begin with, then second fleet is Radiance with a bunch of drone carriers and 30 percent damage increase hanging out in the background, just have it stay in the background. Sprinkle in the flak, it's cheap.

Then expand like there's no tomorrow, and turtle like you've never turtled before, adding assault ships and caps to the first fleet, and carrier types to the second, First fleet kills the planet, second fleet kills the structures. when defending, first fleet kills the caps, second fleet kills the planet rapers, then whatever is annoying you. A pair of guardians in each fleet with push auto'd is one of the most annoying things you can do :P.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Malice + brilliance...
End of quote


Brilliance is not propagated by malice, tested.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Malice + brilliance...Brilliance is not propagated by malice, tested.
End of quote


Care to post references? Replays? Or are you just trolling?

I just tested it and it does propagate, at least on buildings.

played against the computer, saved right before I maliced/brillianced.

In the situation where I didn't malice, only the buildings very close to the brilliance target took damage

In the situation where I malice, the buildings further away from the brilliance target all took damage as well (about 300-500 damage)

The next test will be to see if only damage propagates from the main target or if damage also propagates from units hurt by the AOE.

I do know that when people use straight up brilliance on me, it sure doesn't seem as effective as when they hit with brilliance and malice.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
It does propagate on units, I can say that with absolute certainty (it's by far my favorite Advent ability combination). I was lucky enough to have two Radiance to level 6 and caught an absurd number of ships in it, just melted all of the Frigates in the fleet.

How I use it in battles is, I use Malice on a unit (usually a Capital, but whatever) then use the Cleansing Brilliance on the strongest ship I can find (always a Capital). Using Cleansing Brilliance on anything less will generally kill them before it's over, and then the damage won't be spread as much (since Cleansing Brilliance happens over a period of time). The result is that the main target will take just about all 2,000, and everyone else in the fleet takes around 500 damage, so leaves many Frigates on death's door and can spook a large number of other ships.

Very, very useful.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
It does propagate on units, I can say that with absolute certainty (it's by far my favorite Advent ability combination). I was lucky enough to have two Radiance to level 6 and caught an absurd number of ships in it, just melted all of the Frigates in the fleet. How I use it in battles is, I use Malice on a unit (usually a Capital, but whatever) then use the Cleansing Brilliance on the strongest ship I can find (always a Capital). Using Cleansing Brilliance on anything less will generally kill them before it's over, and then the damage won't be spread as much (since Cleansing Brilliance happens over a period of time). The result is that the main target will take just about all 2,000, and everyone else in the fleet takes around 500 damage, so leaves many Frigates on death's door and can spook a large number of other ships.Very, very useful.
End of quote


That's exactly my experience with it (and against it) too. I've never explicitly tested it, but always assumed it worked that way.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
That's exactly my experience with it (and against it) too. I've never explicitly tested it, but always assumed it worked that way.
End of quote


This raises a question I've had for a while. I wonder if Malice does damage propagation in conjunction with Vengeance. It wouldn't be as potent as Brilliance, obviously, but it'd also be easier to get early.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Anyone know for sure whether or not malice will propagate martyrdom damage? If so, that could become a very, very, powerful fleet tactic.
IE 4000 credits kills anything sub capship level caught in the aura
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Know the straight econ techs, metal/crytal increase, trade port, desert and terran pop increase, resource focus and the increases to resource focus ,and culture centers and the high level one that increases your max allegiance on all planets.

You'll want to focus on those as fast as possible and build as many trade centers as you can. Tech buildings are fairly cheap so build up until u have all or most of each then max out your logistics on all your planets and fill in with trade centers. If you have a volcanic or ice switching a few trade ports to resource focus can help esp since late game your buying so much from the black marker.

Typically you will want to build 3 harmony and get ice/volcanic as needed, trade ports, and culture center. get up trade as fast as possible 1 trade center per planet is fine until you can fill out tech buildings. Build at least 1 culture building and have it start spreading your culture.

Then get 3 hostility and make sure you get drone hosts,defense vessels, illums. This is the point u want to get to before upgrading your fleet logistics as it sets up your econ and queue up the reaserach first as well as some of the pure econ techs the cheap ones, research takes time so try and get some out of the way and use the fact that hostility and harmony go at the same time also get your research speed increase techs up.

Now fill out a fleet and get a second cap up with your next logistics points and fill up on defense vessels, illums, drone hosts. This fleet can take down quite alot of stuff.

Now its all based on how hard your getting hit as to whether you spend your money on planet infrastructure, trade buildings and harmony econ techs. Alot of this depends on the map and proximity to opponent but this is generally what your shooting for as far as the advent techs go.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
My approach to advent is a bit different.

Depending on how big the map is I spend my resources getting trade and crystal production upgraded at level 3.

I build 3 economy labs as soon as possible and this usually means 2 in home system, and 1 in first asteroid system. First priority is to upgrade crystal production 1 level, then trade, then another crytal and bring metal up as well. Depending on what planets are near me I may research volcanic or artic colonization so I can use those planets but otherwise I'm scrambling to get my resources pushing out as much as possible.

After I get that squared away I go back and start building military labs and getting the basics built. Depending on what I'll need most I upgrade those weapons first and stick with what I'm using. Obviously if I'm not bombing planets I don't upgrade that stuff and I tend to upgrade shields before armor since advent have so much more shield power.

The goal now is to get to hvy cruisers asap and I usually just ignore LRM frigates. I'll start using them if I need but the crystal required to build them makes them slow down research a lot and I'd rather crank out light frigates and use them with my mothership.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
My approach to advent is a bit different.

Depending on how big the map is I spend my resources getting trade and crystal production upgraded at level 3.

I build 3 economy labs as soon as possible and this usually means 2 in home system, and 1 in first asteroid system. First priority is to upgrade crystal production 1 level, then trade, then another crytal and bring metal up as well. Depending on what planets are near me I may research volcanic or artic colonization so I can use those planets but otherwise I'm scrambling to get my resources pushing out as much as possible.

After I get that squared away I go back and start building military labs and getting the basics built. Depending on what I'll need most I upgrade those weapons first and stick with what I'm using. Obviously if I'm not bombing planets I don't upgrade that stuff and I tend to upgrade shields before armor since advent have so much more shield power.

The goal now is to get to hvy cruisers asap and I usually just ignore LRM frigates. I'll start using them if I need but the crystal required to build them makes them slow down research a lot and I'd rather crank out light frigates and use them with my mothership.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
For tech research, I usually start with getting volcanic and arctic colonies, then I tech to defense vessels and sometimes illuminators. My early fleet consists of Progenitor, Radiance, Halcyon, and a horde of Disciples and Defense Vessels. I try to get trade ports early as possible, and once that's done, I gun for Destra Crusaders as fast and hard as I can.