Problem with LRM's is that it take insane micro to defeat them or just brute force of thing that countter them

For instance, you can defeat sizable LRM force with fighters. But it take stupid micro to utilize the fighters to the full potential, where you can just stick the flaks there and forget abaut them. As advent, i still try to go Areia as soon as possible cause you can use them to harass enemy without taking anylosses yourself, and later having guardins with repell makse your carrier fleet realy something.

Also remeber, that TEC gets good armor and hull upgrades early.

My LRM mass is usualy upgradet on its hull and armor to t3, escortted with hosikos and marza. And marza rip trought the disiple spamm with AoE damage like no tomorrow.

and all this is usualy inside first 20 minutes of game. So if Advent deside to mass disiples instead of teching illuminators and flaks, the same cost LRM will easily overcome same cost diciples. So this whole thread is a big joke.

Also Halcyon carrier is realy nice thing to have if you want to maximize of what you got in terms of firepower, lvl 5 halcyon can have realy loltastic fighter squadrons paired with 22% of faster rate of fire for your fleet makes this thing monster early game.

yes yes, defense vessels (ie: flak) do great against LRM. They are talking DISCIPLEs...the "basic assault", 4 supply, medium armor units.

Sorry this forum is getting more whacked all the time, here is my whole post no idea why it didnt save.

This is the most ridiculous thing i've seen. Defense vessels will own massed lrms, put em with a mother ship kicking off shield regen and they win big time. The LRMS MAIN weakness is it only fires from one arc, use that to your advantage and keep moving the 360 degree firing arc of the defense vessels away from their main arc youll get alot more mitigation by not even taking hits, the mothership as well has like a 270 deg arc, plus there reasonably cheap and take little supply, you will own him in an attrition war if he keeps building lrms. If you can get a second cap ship get another mothership focus on shield regen and put points u have to into malice. Both are area effect dps and shield regen which couple insanely well with the 360 deg firing arc of the defense vessel. Plus simply rely on movement tactics not on focus firing and youll own them by not uping their shield mitigation. Make sure you put your fleet into tight formation, hold position, move together and keep the defense vessels clumped on the mothership.

Alot of folks use the radiance as a second battleship with the taunt ability to draw the LRM's fire, this is not a bad strat but makes the chance of losing that radiance alot higher. That points out the other problem is that the defense vessels wont kill the lrms fast especially since there spreading the damage, but when you see one pop expect alot more to follow. Also make sure you are building nothing but fighters and possibly a few cruiser carriers, take advantage of the fact u get em at level 2. Cause a smart TEC player will spread out his LRMS to stay away from your clump and thats where the fighters come in, plus now youve given him the headache where he wants to build cobalts to counter the defense vessels and throw in a few flaks to deal with your fighters.

Congrtualations you have just forced him to spend logistics on stuff other than LRMS. Subsequently the game should move to mid game where the advent starts to dominate using illums coupled with guardians repel, hvy cruisers, and disciples antimatter steal and transfer, again the goal here for advent is to keep that fleet formation nice and tight and utilize the mitgation of the repel ability, repel then focus fire the closest remaining ship, repeat, win.

to bad LRM's fire pass repel

When you hit critical mass of LRM's and advent dont have lvl 6 radiance (our TEC player dont cluster them up in one group), then nothing with strategick importance will survive...
your capitals, guardians... all will go down like sack of poo.

so if you go against tec, hit his eco, cause LRM's are spammable, tradeports are not

what's going to stop him from FF your mothership and then retreating when it's dead? I agree that defense vessels do work, but they take a long time to kill. Their main strength is that they can't really be killed by LRMs. But that's moot if the player doesn't even target your defense vessels in the first place. LRM's main strength is that they quickly take down cap ships and structures.



The attacking player would be really foolish to actually engage your Defense vessels. You're better off just parking them in front of the lrms.

If I'm LRM rushing and I see you have a bunch of defense vessels and a mothership, I will attempt to evaluate in my head whether my LRMs can kill your cap ship before they die to the defense vessels. If I feel they can, I'll attempt to kill it. If not, I'll just run or hit other priority targets. No player in their right mind would try to kill a defense vessel blob with an LRM blob.

That said, this is just theorycraft. Repair bays and the ability to know when to get your cap ship out of the grav well will change things. Unfortunately, the mothership is so incredibly slow, it can't really avoid getting executed by LRM blobs unless you take out the blob quickly. On the other hand, the radiance is actually fast enough to almost outrun them.

Depending on the level of the Halcyon, yes, you can do it with a single Halcyon. It depends on the number of enemy LRM's and the level of the Halcyon. A single Halcyon isn't always enough which is why I specifically mentioned you can use multiple too. I guess you didn't read that.

Now, for your misinformation:

1. Radiance and repair bays -- Last time I checked, repair bays were planetary structures and did not follow around a radiance. Sure, you can back it up with a guardian or progenitor, but those will become the LRM primary target. What you're suggesting is to turtle in a gravity well and let the enemy LRM spam you. This results in you maybe handling the first spam, but the moment you go on offense the opponent has replaced the LRM spam fleet rendering this useless unless the radiance has serious backup. Halcyon(s) and drone hosts kiting can easily handle an LRM spam fleet much better.

2. Mothership + malice + defense vessels -- Ah, the brute force method. This is just as valid as my kiting method.

Soletaken, we must not be playing the same game for you to declare all my posts globally rubbish. I wouldn't be spouting this stuff off if it didn't work. Admittedly, I've played approximately 2 dozen matches now against/with mainly 8 or 9 friends and tend to avoid the general multiplayer populous for various reasons. That doesn't mean I haven't been LRM spammed (actually, assailant spamming is much more common) or don't know what I'm talking about. My way of playing is quite a bit different from the way everyone else I've played goes about doing things. I rely heavily on strategic positioning. I quite often use flanking, distraction forces, or cat and mouse. I'm always surprised at how easy it is to lure someone across a phase lane and then jump in a big force sitting adjacent to the action for a quick ambush. I don't play to win--I play to outsmart you. There's a difference in approach.

Wow that added so much.

disciples do win if theres a ratio of 2 to 1, however thats unlikely and could only occur if the advent player invades with disciples within ~15 minutes of the game start, barely giving the opponent time to accumulate javs while the opponent spent resources on tech/labs and if the disciple player only went disciples, ignored labs completely..etc would only work well if the jav player has 0 defense.

costs: a jav costs ~1.2 to ~1.43 times more than a disciple (fluctuates based on market pricing of metal/crystal).

an midgame-endgame example would be 80 javs vs 118 disciples (extra disciples to cover cost of labs+research).
http://files.filefront.com/80javvs118discrecord/;9840883;/fileinfo.html

118 disciples dead, 54 javs dead.

replay ignores the following factors:
*this totally ignores the fact that 118 disciples take more supply than 80 javs.
*ignoring range which benefits javs.
*ignoring the aoe damage upgrade javs get.

and one last thing



I know someone already corrected you about the damage modifiers, but Im going to actually write down the dps.

AVERAGE DAMAGE
Javelis LRM Frigate against Disciple = 16.5 WINNER
Disciple Vessel against Javelis = 6.37

And there in lies the crux of the problem. Light frigs are dog meat for LRMs. Period.



I would suggest adding interceptors to this mix as well. Interceptors are also highly effective at suppressing LRMs. Your capital ship based squadrons plus a handful of CVLs should be enough.

The economics just don't support it. If light frigs were very cheap, say the same price as a scout or less, then the economics might support this strategy. But LRMs, especially the TECs LRMs, are already pretty cheap. 275 credits, 25 crystal, and a small amount of metal. If the TEC player grabs an arctic world early to feed the crystal requirement, you can forget out spamming him with light frigates.

The counter to LRM spam is flaks and interceptors, which has been shown to be effective. Also, area effect capital ship abilities can do major damage to massed LRMs (Advent's Malice ability comes to mind here).

I'm not talking about an advantage that big. I'm talking more like 20 Disciples to 14 LRMs. It will be a fair fight.

Those are just words. The ship attributes are what really counts. The armor, shields, hull, and everything else I listed.

Your words are empty words with no basis.

That's another great point. The Disciple has a 360 degree weapon. Simply swarm the enemy LRM fleet and decimate them. Always be on the move circling behind and around them and rip them to shreds.

Good point!

Where do you get this information from because the ship attributes do not support it.
Provide an official link from the developers please. thanks.

Please provide an official link from the developers proving what you are claiming because I think you're just making it up.

I have a hunch you may be referring to attributes before patch 1.03

Even if you're right, you're still ignoring the HUGE shield advantage that Disciples have.

Well, based solely on experience after being rushed by Disciples and after having been completely unprepared, due to general wisdom went Javelins to counter, I can say that by experience this isn't true. I managed to push back a numerically superior Advent player that exclusively used Disciples, while I exclusively used LRMs (literally scratched by head when I saw he didn't try to counter my LRMs, now I know why), eventually forcing him to drop (didn't surrender...).

As for the offical link from the developers, here you go:

Sins Counters Update

Since none of the ships in question have changed damage type / amount in 1.03 it doesn't make any difference. How about you get off your ass and look it up yourself. it's not hard. HINT: It's in the forum. HINT: Forum has a search function.

That's what I thought. I didn't think you could provide an official link because the ship attributes listed in the game DO NOT match your bogus claim, you tactless piece of @#$@#$.

The LRM has armor of 1 and the Disciple has an average weapon damage of 8.
The Disciple has armor of 2 and the LRM has an average weapon damage of 11.

Either you're full of crap or the developers have put faulty information into the game. Which is it?

They aren't my numbers - I'm not archpsi. I'm happy to take him at his word though, and accept the figures he's claiming. I wouldn't, for example, baselessly call him a liar like a tactless piece of shit would.

I love it when a feeble minded person uses vulgar language as his PROOF.

Eh? I used exactly the same language you did. That was kind of my point.

EDIT: Awww, you editted out your comment about my lack of manliness.

That's funny, because I did exactly what you did FIRST in reply #42. Not only do you use vulgar langauge, you also resort to lies huh?

I going directly off the numbers displayed in the game put there by the developers.

The only way possible you could be right is if the developers have placed faulty information into the game display (info cards).

Still, I don't know how you would explain how I have stopped every LRM spam attempt with Disciple spam (ever since the new patch 1.03)

What?

You lied by ignoring the fact that YOU used vulgar language first (reply #42). Trying to insinuate that I used vulgar language first makes you a deceiver/liar.

I understand that have nothing to bring to the table as far as any real evidence to back up what you are claiming, and that is exactly the reason why you resorted to vulgar language.

You're like the little 2lb dog that walks behind the 100lb dog trying to make fights, aren't you?