Advent has 825 total hp, LRM has 780 total hp, that is not a major overall health advantage. The light health advantage is counteracted by the fact that LRMs do much more damage, and have longer range.

Also, there was that replay posted earlier in this thread where 80 LRMs fought 118 disciples, and the LRMS lost 54 and the disciples lost all 118.

Well download it at www.xfire.com

Here's the rules for our SPAM test. This will be a test to see if Disciple spam can neutralize LRM spam.

1) Neither of us can colonize more planets.
2) Niether of us can control more resources than what is already on our home planet.
3) Neither of us can research weapons or ship upgrade technology.
4) We will meet at a planet that is directly in the middle. No attacking home planets.
5) No capital ships allowed.
6) We can build as many units as we like, as fast as we like.

No cheating because end-game stats will show if you did.

If your LRM fleet is unable to decimate my fleet within 30 minutes then we'll call it a draw which is what I'm expecting.

Where is the replay, and was that before or after the patch?

Also were there other factors like weapons upgrade technology, or defensive structures.

You've got to be kidding me, you aren't willing to re-read this single thread to find it? It's on page 2, look yourself, though it really seems like you're just trolling at this point. I mean you even quoted part of that reply where the guy posted the replay.

Haha...here we go again with name calling. Don't you people have anything else to offer?

I guess overtime you will discover more and more people using the Disciple spam to neutralize your LRM spam. You'll see. Patch 1.03 makes it all possiable Muahahaha...


Awww? What's wrong? Are you worried that your LRM spam isn't going to work as good anymore? Aww....I'm so sorry patch 1.03 ruins your day then. Hahaha!

That's a little absurd. While LRM rush can be done from a single planet, it's not a strat you do from the get go. I'm talking about a normal 1v1 with you. I'll be doing the normal things a player would do - colonizing, teching, etc, while you attempt to stop me with disciples. You're whole point is that an LRM rush is easily defeatable with disciple spam. It doesn't come with a series of qualifiers that make up new rules for the game.

If you want to do a science experiment like what you're suggesting, do it with your clan.

I knew you would back out.

I tell you what. Here's what I will do. The next time I stop an LRM spammer I will save the replay and show it to you.

I'm not saying it will be easily defeated, but I'm saying it will be easily neutralized. It's quite balanced.

Here:



And yes, it was made after the patch.

Okay, well believe whatever you want. I'll keep on using Disciple spam in the beginning phases of the game to counter the LRM spammers. It hasn't failed yet.

Cheers!

How can someone so completely ignorant to the mechanics of the game be so arrogant?

You're the one backing out of my 1v1, imposing your fantasy land restrictions. These restrictions would never happen in a normal game.

I tell you what, we'll play both. We'll do one game your way, and one mine.

okay lets see how 20 disciples do vs 14 javs, this is ignoring any tech upgrades, which actually benefit the javs (aoe damage).

the disciples start with the a slight advantage:
-they are in range of the javs, when in reality the javs would usually start firing from out of disciple range.
the disciples start with a slight disadvantage:
-they are not facing the javs and have to turn around.

when you combine these two things it make the battle a bit more realistic then if the disciples just started firing at the javs immediatly (the advantage is counteracted slightly by the disadvantage).

anyway the result
http://files.filefront.com/20disciplevs14javrecord/;9843879;/fileinfo.html

result: 8 jav dead, 20 disciple dead.


damage/armour modifiers
To prove to you that there is such a thing as damage/armour modifiers, I will show you 20 seekers vs 14 javs, now seekers show 3 damage ingame and have same amount of hull/shields as disciples, so by your theory (denying existence of armour/damage modifiers) they should barely do damage to javs and the result should be like 2-3 javs dead and 20 dead scouts.

watch the replay:
20 scouts vs 14 javs, Im not gonna say the result since people who deny the existence of damage/armour modifiers will be amazed at what happens .
http://files.filefront.com/20scoutvs14javrecord/;9843925;/fileinfo.html

the 20 scouts start in the same way the 20 disciples started (have to rotate).

this is all 1.03 and no mods, if the replay had a mod and you didnt have it enabled the game would crash.

I'm not a hardcore "sinner" (I'm sure you're a better player than me), so for the moment I believe what I see. And so far I've seen 118 dead Disciples. Grilled by 80 LRMs. So, from where I'm standing it doesn't look like (here I'm quoting you) "Disciple Spam neutralizes LRM Spam 100% of the time"

After reading my previous post I could see a few things that I should correct, like writing "8 javs died" and "20 disciples died", instead of "dead".
I hope they fix the editing functionality at some point.

[MAGOG]Kruelgor:
check the second replay in my previous post (#87), it will amaze you and possibly shock you at the same time.

So are we going to have a game or two tonight then? (1v1 no rules, 1v1 your rules)

guy is gigantic troll, ignore him

If it were only him he was so confused, it would be OK.

Unfortunately he's 'teaching' other people these completely wrong things. Also, we don't want the devs to even look at this because it's completely 100% untrue.

I really don't enjoy playing games where my partner is convinced his disciples will be able to own the enemy's LRMs.

Moreover, [MAGOG]Kruelgor's arrogance and attitude of "I'm right, you're all wrong! all of you!!" looks deliciously tempting to trample on.

I only post to inform others about the misinformation.

thats the reason i play FFA's

alone...

Teamgames in sins usualy end up that my parnters play sim city in space while i do all the work...

Kruelgor, please give this up =D. Not an argument your going to win...

JinxOfSin, that is my biggest fear actually...That people new to the game (or even devs!) will read these threads full of bad information (sorry, but it is) and believe them... Gotta do what we can to "clean" it up. I don't care what people believe and how they play, but don't spread falsehoods when a SIMPLE test (as shown above) can "prove" it wrong.

CptSiddy, Sins is fun with partners you can trust. The problem then becomes that enemy teams die too easily...Thus begin the 3v5, 3v6+ style games =p. Join the Sins IRC, we sometimes get "inhouse" games where everyone is at least decent...Those are fun .

Download the 1.03 updated data files from he stickied post on the modding forum, and check out gampelay.constants in notepad. Then, look up the unit damage types in their associated .entity files. I mean shit man, if you really want proof that badly...

DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:CapitalShip 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:VeryLight 1.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Light 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Medium 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:Heavy 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYLIGHT:VeryHeavy 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:CapitalShip 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Light 2.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Medium 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:Heavy 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTILIGHT:VeryHeavy 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Light 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Medium 1.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:Heavy 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIMEDIUM:VeryHeavy 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Light 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:Heavy 1.25
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIHEAVY:VeryHeavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:VeryLight 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Light 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Medium 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:Heavy 0.5
DamagePercentBonus:ANTIVERYHEAVY:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Light 1.5
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:Heavy 1.25
DamagePercentBonus:COMPOSITE:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:CapitalShip 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:VeryLight 0.25
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Light 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:Heavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALSHIP:VeryHeavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:CapitalShip 0.75
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:VeryLight 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Light 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Medium 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:Heavy 1.0
DamagePercentBonus:CAPITALABILITY:VeryHeavy 1.0

Try not to accuse people of being wrong when you're not willing to go make -sure- you're right. It makes you look like an ass, and people tend to ignore the value that may or may not be behind anything you say.

Personally I think you've done us a service by pointing out how effective disciple ships can be early game. But you've pretty much destroyed your credibility later in the thread by refusing to pick your battles and instead insisting that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, regardless of their reasoning.

Good luck with this whole thing, I hope you manage to pull off whatever it is you want to accomplish.

I didnt bring the entity files up in this thread, since we mentioned the entity files to him multiple times in at least one other thread (example: the sticky) and he refused to acknowledges any data not displayed ingame (infocards).

Actually this is you making a serries of bizzare rules and then claiming he is backing out, how many LRM spammers do you know not colonize an asteroid?

The challenge was he is going to beat you down with LRMs in a 1 vs 1 match, you're the one backing out, and you're not fooling anybody.


Ehhh I know I'm slow responding, but Jesus what a troll.

Perhaps it's simply because I'm able to produce so many Disciples in the beginning of the game that LRM spammers simply can't inflict a critical blow to my empire.

I can't explain the so-called "mechanics" behind it, but I do know that I fear LRM spammers zilch because of the Disciple (and because of patch 1.03)

I was fighting a herd of LRM frigates yesterday and I was laughing at them as their weak shields disintegrated rapidly.

You people keep on talking about the weapon damage, yet you completely ignore the EXTREMELY weak shields and weak armor strength of the LRM (measly armor of 1).

I think you're all full of it, personally. I think you just have a personal vendetta against Kruelgor the Great and that's why you're skewing the truth. I don't mind though, because you're making yourselves look silly. Especially when I crush your LRM spam in the game. Haha! I do it everyday.

I have yet to see any LRM fleets crush my Disciple fleet in the beginning phases of the game.

Perhaps, it is because I'm able to produce at least 2 to 1. While you're waiting and wasting crystal on your LRM I'm pumping out the Disciples baby! (no crystal required). I eat LRMs for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and midnight snack.

Perhaps, it's my snowball strategy of continuously gobbling up planets and continiously pumping out Disciples that allows me to double, triple, or even quadruple my enemy's fleet size.

We'll meet on the battlefield soon enough. Soon enough my friends..........

P.S. I always have the #1 fleet from beginning to end.


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