Ground Assualt

Would it improve the game?

from Sins Forums

With 1.1 announced and all would it make the game better to have an option of Invading the planet as opposed to orbital bombardment. I think it would give the game even more options on how to take a planet. The benefits of sending troops down would be it leave some of the planets various upgrades intact thus making it cheaper to make a working economy all you have to do then is to move. A temporary boost in Culture and allegiance as word of the takeover is made known. Possible detractions could be that if you lost the battle you take a temporary morale loss and Culture rate , Troopships could be a cruiser making it a little higher on the tech tree. It's also cannot be guaranteed that the planets upgrades will remain entirely intact, there could be a temporary financial drain for a bit to represent resistance to your rule. The planet could also suffer from lower allegiance for a spell until your culture changes it.

There could also even be a new tech tree for each race! The Vasari could get upgrades ranging from gene-engineering there slave army to be more adept at fighting, receive better weapons or one that makes them fight harder or else suffer there masters wrath. The Advent could have upgrades that could allow there infantry to lower the effectiveness of the enemy army with Paralyzing Fear using there psytech or could receive other pystech upgrades that allow them to use pystech as some kinda weapon or have Preachers of the Unity that make the Advent Infantry fight more viciously. The TEC could get stuff relating to Stirring Propaganda that increases there morale if they win a battle or Censored Media that allows them to negate news of a military catastrophe ,Mass Conscription that makes there armies more numerous maybe even as an end level tech Powered Armor.

Is this a good idea on how Ground Warfare could be implemented ins Sins? If not how could it work so as to make Planetary Bombardment and Planetary Invasion even with the other? And what tech's would each race get? I already posted a few idea’s but there’s got to be a lot of great tech each side could use.

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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
No one? Maybe I should move it to the expansion wish list. (:( 
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Hi Williamnight,

Actually this is a thought that I have had. The thing is, if they did that it would make the game , which is already pretty involved, even more complicated. The Galactic Civ serie's already does this. Real good suggestion but for the RTS part of this game not sure. Still might be worth looking at.

SIN on :HOT: 
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Actually my idea is pretty easy in the fact it's similiar to the Bomabardment. You just click the planet watch the lander go down. The planet gets a circle around it. on the circles border is made up of two colorsone representing the Invaders and the other the Defenders. Based on how many soldiers present what there upgrades are determines who wins. As the fight wears on the colored border will begin to eat into the enemys color. When the enemy color is gone the world has been conquered. However this isnt set in stone. If during the battle an enemy fleet comes through to relive that world they can break the siege by dropping more forces groundside. Thus cuasing a shift in which the defenders begin to win represented by there bar begin eating away at the Invaders circle. It doesnt make the game more complex but more engaging!
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
This is a good suggestion but it should be more along the lines of the envading army wins depends on culture spread. For example this ability should be higher up the tech tree after you have the ability to spread culture. It could be called invading army and your armies ability to conquer the planet depends on your cultural influence and the amount of capital ships both friendly and hostile are at the planet. You wont actually get to see the armies fighting but you'll get to see the dropships and some indicator telling you if your armies winning or not.This combined with idea of using an invading force that you get to keep all the research already done on the planet this would be a good idea.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Hm not bad. And I agree that you wouldn’t be able to see the armies fighting each other. But my idea isn’t so closely tied with Culture Spread. Ok heres my idea on how a planets health bar regarding Planetary Invasions go. When you drop your Landers a ring surrounds the planet. Half the bar colored in your factions color and the other half the Enemy's immediately depending on how many soldiers you've dropped and there upgrades your half of the ring will either start moving whether getting smaller which represents your forces being outnumbered or outgunned (or both) or expanding which shows that the enemy is losing. You can make your half of the ring move quicker in your by dropping more infantry or researching more upgrades for them. As can your enemy if they move a reserve fleet that just phased in or if they just researched a useful upgrade.

Another idea is a new tab on the planetary development. Labeled Planetary Defense this allows your planetary defense force to be able to compete with an incoming ground assault. It's tied directly in to your planets infrastructure so that means higher population the longer they can hold out or the better they can fight them off.

On Tech Trees there can be two that support ground Assault. In your War Tech Planetary Assault and in your Civic tree Planetary Defense. I've already mentioned PA but PD is a new idea. PD allows you to build fortresses on your world (You cant see them.) They increase your planets health by a good margin and help your soldiers fight off assaults. A good final upgrade would be Planetary Defense Grid which can actually shoot down incoming shuttles reducing the enemy forces that land.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Just so you guys are aware, planetary invasions/battles were talked about in beta and repeatedly turned down. It is possible to see it somewhere down the line, but I doubt it would be up for re-consideration just yet :P
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
You know, I actually like the game being distinct from Galactic Civilizations 2, so no, not really.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
We'll you never know. I just think a game this detailed could really benefiet from it if done properly.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I'd like to see a planet with high level PD also get defense missiles or something to engage an enemy fleet. Maybe even ground based hangars. Right now it seems like orbital defenses are mostly useless, and even a fully teched/filled planet doesnt stand a chance against a small fleet. I dont think a Planet should be able to beat a large fleet 1v1, but if you invest that much into a planet, it should hold out for a time. Right now it doesnt.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
This is a good ideal, but need to be tied in more with game, then an add on. I'm with Williamnight on the ideal of adding Culture as part of the ground battles. Instead of making you take ground forces or orbital bombardment, you should make it so ground forces are supported by orbital bombardment. Other wise it nothing more then a Galactic Civilizations 2 clone. But most of all it needs to be tied into the culture system. Right now as it stands, Sins(no offense) is a RTS with 4X elements in it, I would like it if this ground forces thing was some how tied to the spend of culture. Right now culture only improves your ships, increase income(I'm ok with these two), and "turns boarder worlds netural". The problem is with the last one. The weak turns the boarder worlds netural and the powerful support fleet abilitie only helps the fleet. And while I like how the culture victory and military victory are tied together, I see the culture victory as only a support. In my mind, they should stand as equals, to make this a ture RTS/4X game. So the gorund forces can't be there own thing, but must be tied to culture in some way. It is already is to stop the spread of culture with a few board casting center.

But I like the increase tech ideal. If any one could find a way that we could tie in culture and gorund forces to increase the culture side of the game, I would give my full support at the next patch post.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Wellthank you for your support. I dont think that if they added dirtside combat it would make it a GalCiv clone. I still think it would be a really intersting play type. I disagree with having culture as way to accomplish a Planetary Invasion but I do support the idea of being able to tie the two victories together.It would be a military takeover. But if the world is taken from the enemy it should affect your culture and your empires alligence while weakeaning the enemys alliagence and culture rate. This boost to culture could be used in such a way as if you take one world another one or two might revolt to your camp.

Come on think how we can add a fun and unique Planetary Invasion mode of play.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Culture should make the takeover easier. If a planet wants to rebel, you dropping ground forces off would help that. You bombing the shit out of them probably wont.

I'd like to see a bigger negative for nuking planets, and a better culture rating for using troops.

The good thing about troop invasions would be keeping their tech/planet upgrades, and helping your culture. The bad would be the cost of troop upkeep, troopships, and it would be harder to take well defended planets.

The good for orbital nuking would be the ease of taking a planet, and less ships in a fleet, since your caps could do most of the work. The bad would be the negative/neutral state of the planets culture, and the cost of rebuilding.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
The main problem with that ideal is that there is no sense in puttiing resources into culture, as any military victory would remove any culture victroy. If I put resources into culture and win a culture victroy, it would be use less under you ideal, as one military victory would lead to a military and culture victory. All I'm saying is that the culture, should give more of and edge to your side if you put more resoures into it, instead of the military side. This means that if you lose a military victory, you could still when the next time thougth your culture power.

I would like it, if I win one victory and the AI the other, that we both are still in the fight. But your ideal Williamnight is that if I win one vitory, I win it all. But I understand your side of the plan. If I win the space battle, I should also win the culture battle, but this comes in the from of destroying boardcasting centers and from my captial ships.

An ideal I was working on, was to give the board casting centers abilitie to control a form of culture warfare, in which you could select a culture program that changes how the cultures react when they meet each other. The plans could be set in a rock, paper, scissors in which one could counter another. This means that it is easyer for players who use there culture programs will to move there culture into an enemy system(in order to increase the military power when they attack that system).

The plans are all based on ground forces, which include power armors, taht are ships into the enemy system, to anything elese that fits the lore of that faction
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
With 1.1 announced and all would it make the game better to have an option of Invading the planet as opposed to orbital bombardment. I think it would give the game even more options on how to take a planet. The benefits of sending troops down would be it leave some of the planets various upgrades intact thus making it cheaper to make a working economy all you have to do then is to move. A temporary boost in Culture and allegiance as word of the takeover is made known. Possible detractions could be that if you lost the battle you take a temporary morale loss and Culture rate , Troopships could be a cruiser making it a little higher on the tech tree. It's also cannot be guaranteed that the planets upgrades will remain entirely intact, there could be a temporary financial drain for a bit to represent resistance to your rule. The planet could also suffer from lower allegiance for a spell until your culture changes it.
There could also even be a new tech tree for each race! The Vasari could get upgrades ranging from gene-engineering there slave army to be more adept at fighting, receive better weapons or one that makes them fight harder or else suffer there masters wrath. The Advent could have upgrades that could allow there infantry to lower the effectiveness of the enemy army with Paralyzing Fear using there psytech or could receive other pystech upgrades that allow them to use pystech as some kinda weapon or have Preachers of the Unity that make the Advent Infantry fight more viciously. The TEC could get stuff relating to Stirring Propaganda that increases there morale if they win a battle or Censored Media that allows them to negate news of a military catastrophe ,Mass Conscription that makes there armies more numerous maybe even as an end level tech Powered Armor.
Is this a good idea on how Ground Warfare could be implemented ins Sins? If not how could it work so as to make Planetary Bombardment and Planetary Invasion even with the other? And what tech's would each race get? I already posted a few idea’s but there’s got to be a lot of great tech each side could use.
End of quote


Star Wars Empires at War had the planet assault feature.

I don't think it's a good idea for Sins because it would increase the average game time even more. It would also change the entire dynamic of the game. Sins wouldn't be Sins anymore. All the capital ships and planet bombardment ships would be null and void.

In my own mind, I imagine Planetary Bombardment as like a temporary radioactive poison that spreads across the entire planet. Each shell that hits the surface releases the deadly substance.



Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks for the good points Anti-Commie and homefleet. But like I said before teh culture bonuses are temporary lasting maybe a couple of minutes. Though I do understand your concern but the good thing about this is that upgrades for ground forces would include intersting culture abilties such as the aforementioned Stirring Propaganda and Media Censorship which would influence the temporary culture boost. The idea for a planetary assualte is that it could benefiet both culture and miltary but be even riskier becuase failure means your empire gets a culture drop and loses alliengnce for a breif period of time.

And anti-commie I really like the idea of the pros and cons for Plnatery assualte/bombardment.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Star Wars Empires at War had the planet assault feature.I don't think it's a good idea for Sins because it would increase the average game time even more. It would also change the entire dynamic of the game. Sins wouldn't be Sins anymore. All the capital ships and planet bombardment ships would be null and void.In my own mind, I imagine Planetary Bombardment as like a temporary radioactive poison that spreads across the entire planet. Each shell that hits the surface releases the deadly substance.
End of quote


To clarify you wouldnt SEE any of this happening only thing you would see is the planet with maybe some real pretty explosions and the circle bar denoting how well or bad your forces are faring and plus there are pros and cons that could be easily be done for a Planetary Bombardment and Invasion.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Ground invasion should be an alternative to bombing. Dropping off troops would like colonizing the planet; use the ability and get out of there.
The troops would battle on the ground, and the chances of success are depending on how big the population/infrastructure is. If it's low enough than you have a chance of making the planet neutral, or even turn it onto your side.

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah but thats to simple. This could add a whole new dimesion to how one can play the game,it could add more depth and it wouldnt make the game any more complicated.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
The high risk would improve game play, but your second to last post williamnight, point out your ideal, so now I understand what you are talking about. So for the ground assualts what upgrades and how would they effect the assualt? Are they all passive or active?
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Okay heres the benefiets and the risks. If you take the world with your Ground Forces your Empire would get a temporary boost to your empires culture rate and would gain a temporary boost to your worlds allgiance. This is and I repeat only for a short time. This is supposed to represent your armies victory being broadcasted over the airwaves to your worlds (increasing there alliagnence) And it being trasnmitted yo your enemies making them despair. (Your culture rate incresing.) The same is true for you if you lose. (They gain a quicker culture rate. and alliegnce.)

The upgardes I have in mind are for both the War Tree and the Civic Tree. The war tree (Planetary Assualt) improves your armies. Some powers are passive which give off certain bonuses the whole time. Plus maybe one or two active's that you can activate by clicking on an enemy world and hitting the button (unless it's on autocast.)
The Civic Tree (Planetary Defense.) Improves a worlds abilty to defend itself from Planetary invasion and a few upgardes could even help with Planetary Bombardment. Some of the stuff could even particapte in the space war like firing off anti-orbital missles or lasers. Each planet can increase it's Planetary Militia. This is what defends your world from Invasion and it's a planetary build tab. (similiar to increase civic and tactical structures.) It's tied dierctly into your planets infrastructure. More Infrastructure more miltia.

Possible upgardes for the TEC: Mass Conscription, Icreases total size of Planetary Invasion
Mass Media Coverage, Would increase the culture bonus
Media Censorship,would negate some of the damage done by losing a fight.
Stuff like that

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
This is a really sweet idea, but I have to agree with Kruelgor's point about it mucking with game balance a bit. If it were a straight "drop and win" scenario that was time effective, then it would break game balance. Perhaps if troops were treated more as a sort of "planetary poison" that would gradually reduce population and limit production / resource output the idea could be balanced.

In any case, if bombardment was kept as the "fast" option for taking a planet, and invasion was relegated to a slower, infrastructure degredation / resource sabotage role, the two could achieve a really great synergy alongside one another in the game.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
It isnt drop and win. Three can mitigate your armies attack on a world.
1. The Planetary Miltia if it's larger and has a better defense than your army.
2.A counterattacking army flying in and wiping your attacking army.
3.The bad guys saying screw it and Bombarding there own world.
Of course you still might be able to win. Despite thses scenarios.
1.your army could still drop more troops to overwhelm the milita and defenses.
2.the reliveing force might not be big enough and just bog you down even more.
3. They would be screwing up there own world.


Depending on what the defender does affects how long thr ground war lasts. A fight between a bare bones miltia and an un upgraded army could take three to five minutes longer than Bombardment and you still might not win if for example the planets enviorement sucks.And while your still trying to take the world the Defender might drop a fleet in attack your Navy then drop there own grounpounders to relive there miltia. And during the war yeah it acts as a "planetary poison" as you put it. The only differnce is you might actually TAKE that world.

As your army gets upgardes. They will be able to take the world quicker. As the enemy builds up there Planetary Defense and there Miltia it will take longer for your army to accomplish there agenda.

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
Dawn of Victory is implementing _something_ like this: the problem is that as of now planet ownership is locked to planet health, so you can't "flip" a planet with a buff and preserve the population.

Hopefully some more modding stuff will make this more doable. Obviously not exactly what you're asking for, but at least it'll happen sooner than an expansion :)