I'm on the fence, should I buy the game or not?

If you're looking for a "real" RTS you're better off with WiC. Sins is a sort of odd (and IMO not entirely successful) hybrid that tries to combine RTS and 4X games and frankly doesn't result in a very good example of either. It's pretty to watch, and the scale is (as the packaging says) undeniably unrivaled, but I can't recommend the actual gameplay.

Right now, I prefer Sins simply because I haven't been playing it as long. They're both excellent but very different games.

World in Conflict is a fast-paced tactial cluster#@!^ with emphasis solely on combat. No base building (technically, there's extremely limited use of static structures but they're more speedbumps than anything). 'Very' limited resource management. You simply put your units on the field, drop tactical aids like artillery and nukes where they'll do the most good, and do your best to keep enough pressure on the other guys to win.

Sins is a much larger-scale game that pays much more attention to non-combat factors like resources, culture, and so forth. Combat is a very important part of this game as well but you're not going to stay afloat without skilled management behind the scenes.

Again, you get quality either way but it's up to you what you're in the mood for.

I think it's awesome and addictive. if you like space battles and meetin cool people to play with online, with some good old strategy and an epic scale, you should definately pick this game up.

I should add that, considering its admirable level of post-release support, Sins may be worth another look a few months down the road. I wouldn't buy it now, though.

Having played both extensively, I can say that if you want a single player game, get Sins. If you want quick multiplayer action in 20-minute spurts (and to play competitively) get WiC.

The two games are really apples and oranges.

I don't feel that either game is terribly expensive. If you can afford to buy both, then do so. Of course, if you can do that, then you should consider buying games for all of us, too. Or at least me.

I had a lot of trouble setting up a private server for WiC, so if you want to play private games with your friends, and anybody has a router then you may run into problems. I haven't had the time to play out a game of Sins in Multiplayer, so I cannot comment on connectivity. Although I enjoy Sins, if I were to try Multiplayer, I don't know if I would like it. I am spoiled by Supreme Commander+Forged Alliance, and I feel that is the best RTS for multiplayer with big armies of units right now.

Just make up your mind.

Most of us think it's a great game, as do the reviews. That's all you need to know.

-- Retro

Your options are: Another boring RTS that is all "spam, spam, spam!", or Sins.

As another poster said, the multiplayer is not excellent yet, so Sins is more single player (at least for me) as of now...

All I can say is, if you want another RTS, get WiC. If you want to try something different, get Sins.

Hope you can make up your mind!

Wic is another game that's tough to categorize but calling it "another boring RTS" is disingenuous. You can't just spam units either, you are capped out at less than a dozen units.

It's more of a RTT- no dirt farming, and you'd better coordinate with your teammates if you want to win.

WiC and Sins have almost nothing in common except that you play them both using a PC.

Huh, th opposite of my opinion -- I think multiplayer is great, but singleplayer (AI, diplomacy) needs some work.

Just because this game isn't for you doesn't make this a bad game or 'needing months of work' to get better. It's gotten high marks from all gaming sites, and deservedly so. I bought it, love it, and talked my two friends into getting it and they love it too.

It's a great 'new feeling' game as it's an RTS that isn't all frantic and click crazy. It's a wonderfully realized vision that has a lot of depth to it, and an interface for playing that is second to none.

I'd strongly recommend you buy it, I've not regretted it and consider it to be up there with Heroes Of Might and Magic in terms of fun engrossing strategy games.

I've got both Sins and WiC, and like someone else has mentioned, it's apples and oranges. WiC is great for a quick action fix because that's all the game is about (now if only my Nvidia driver didn't poop out on it every few minutes), and Sins is slower, and more about empire management - there are really few points that they can be compared on.

Graphics-wise, WiC does use DX10 with some very pretty effects whereas Sins strived to play well on older machines. It still looks great, but it doesn't have DX10 support (and it will be getting higher resolution textures in an upcoming content update).

I don't regret either of the purchases. You could always try out the Sins demo as well (Fileplanet, Gamespot have it)

And just because you do like it doesn't mean it's a great game that everyone will enjoy and that it's perfect and needs no further work. Opinion is just that.

For my part, I bought it, I'm stuck with it (because Stardock's registration system is such that I can't legitimately sell it) so there's nothing for me to do but try to get the parts of the game that are poor (the AI, the diplo system, the research system to some degree) fixed and to warn others that in my opinion they are well advised to wait for that to happen.

Dont buy either game. They both suck... Buy Company of Heroes, it blows both these crap RTS games out of the water

Or, you could point them to the demo so they can see for themselves, rather than reading biased (from both sides, to be fair) rhetoric

Definitely, among other problems, the mini-dump especially makes the game not worth your money until it is fixed! Unless you like playing a game for hours just for the game to somehow get corrupted and crash all the time. I'm playing Sins on a high-end gaming computer, so hardware is not an issue for me.

I thought the game was amazing...until I began to experience this.

If it had resulted in a "very good" example of either in their classic form the attempt would have been a total failure. The whole point was to combine elements of both to provide something new. Whether that something is 'better' than a classic RTS or 4X game is a matter of opinion, of course, but for those who prefer something more conventional there is hardly a shortage of choice. IMHO Sins succeeds superbly. Doesn't mean it's perfect, of course - but can you name either an RTS or 4X game that is?

Ah how refreshing, you must be the resident forum troll of cry me a river.

I've seen your relatives on all other gaming sites, and invariably they have one thing in common - No knowledge of how to operate their computer so they blame their problems on the software/games they try and run on it.

Keep on trolling, I see you have made it quite a hobby to be so quick with responses. Almost like a starved Chihuahua on a porkchop.

According to previous comments by IC/DC the game should be able to run on low-end computers. You seem to think just because the game crashes it is the fault of the player. It would seem to me that the game crashing and other poor aspects of it is due to the software.

IMO, all SD/IC has to do is fix mini-dump errors and the game is GREAT.

Actually I've found the game to be extremely stable, and as I said the post release support has been exemplary. It's also very pretty, and quite a lot of fun to watch. Unfortunately there are some specific elements (AI, diplo) that make it, IMO, not much fun to play. I'd like to think those will be corrected in time, though I'd love to be reassured on that point by the devs. I keep reading proposed patch notes and diplo doesn't seem to be getting addressed at all.

I am the clan leader of one of the largest clans in WiC (World in conflict) with over 200 members. I played WiC everyday for 6 months straight.

Sins is the better choice because:

1) WiC is an older game and as a newbie, you will get seriously spanked by the majority of players there since most of them have 6 months of playing experience on you. It wont be fun for you.

2) WiC can get boring very fast since there are no buildings or structures for you to build. Sins gives you the ability to build many different things.

3) WiC can get boring very fast since you only have control of 4 to 10 units. You can have multiple dozens in Sins, even hundreds!

4) Wic is a tactical game. Sins is a RTGS (Real-Time Grand Strategy game) and tactical game.

5) I estimate WiC of having an average play life of 3 months for the average player, while Sins will keep you entertained for over a year easily.

Don't you think it's a tad soon to be bashing them on the boards for flaws you feel need to be addressed, when the game is just barely out of the gates? I mean, logic would certainly dictate that they will be adding all kinds of things to this game, and making the diplomacy a bit deeper / more dynamic is a no-brainer when it comes to augmenting? Also you see a mod community that is coming together and as any prior game will show, the best ideas out of user created mods tend to usually get indoctrinated into a game over time.

I think part of your problem is the fact that you are so vocal about wanting 'X,Y,Z' right now, and all you are ending up doing is impacting the game in a negative way. By pointing out flaws that you feel are so major again and again and dissuading new players from picking up the game, all you do in the end is lessen your chances of getting the changes you want because less people buying = less money to develop.

Take a chill, realize that this game in it's current form is a great solid well rounded game. List me four other games in the last year that are as feature complete, bug free, and stable on release? This and COD4 are the only two games that really come to mind.

So ease back, this world wasn't built in a day, and adding to it won't happen overnight either.

"Barely out of the gates?" In the US, at least, it's been out for 2 months. They've posted a planned patch schedule all the way out to version 1.1 (presumably several weeks away) so we have some notion of what's coming in the next while as well. Since diplo is mentioned in none of those cases, and has in fact specifically been mentioned as something that might only be addressed in an expansion, I think I have a right to be concerned on that point.

I'm glad you enjoy the game, I'm glad you feel it is "great solid and well rounded." I would ask that you allow for the possibility that some people feel that there are problems with various elements of the game that damage the playing experience in such a way that we do not find the game fun. Since Stardock (the publisher) has a well earned reputation for fantastic post release support, the hope is that by bringing these flaws to the attention of the devs and making it clear that they are a major problem for a portion of the community these problems can be addressed and even more people can enjoy the game.

In the interim, I personally was brought to this game by the advertising and reviews, which I feel do not give an accurate picture of the game play. Consequently, I have endeavored to bring certain problems that I have with the title to the attention of potential customers who might, like myself, find themselves regretting their purchase decision. Since it's impossible to legally resell this game (something else that should be brought to potential buyers attention, incidentally) making an appropriate purchase decision is all the more important. I feel the positive points of the game are being amply represented by other posters and the media, but in threads like this the game's flaws are frequently glossed over.

I am having little to no impact on the sales of this title, all you have to do is look at the sales charts. There's no shortage of money flowing into Ironclad's coffers and as such there's no reason they're going to have trouble finding the funds to continue development. An expansion is already in the works, I think it's safe to say they're doing just fine.

As to being "feature complete and bug free" at release, I didn't own the game until a week or so after release by which point it had already been patched twice, so I couldn't say. The current version is certainly very stable and, in my experience, largely free of bugs. I give Ironclad credit for that rather frequently, actually.

Napalm thanks for the defense but they've been given similiar responses by many posters in various threads and they've failed to yield. Unfortunately, we have to take a heavier approach.

Vinraith and Hynkel and a few others who don't happen to be in this thread (but rest assured they'll get the same message): We are well aware of the issues you continuously bring up and we've consistantly said that we are dealing with them. Some things take more time than others. Posting every chance you get about your concerns is not constructive and is not helping the community as your opinions and problems are not shared by the vast majority yet you dominate the conversations and more often that not the threads you participate in devolve into debates on well cycled topics. Make a good post constructively illustrating your concerns and debate them in that thread. We don't have a problem with that. Don't spread it around like a virus. It will actually work to you advantage because we won't have to jump all over the place trying to find all the data regarding a particular problem when we go to decide how to best approach solving it. Do you have any idea how much time it takes to collect all the forum data and seperate the signal from the noise? Do you have idea how much valid discussion you guys are preventing from occuring? Anyways, it won't be tolerated any longer. Fair warning.

Those who have been us since March 2007 when the beta went live know how tolerant Ironclad and Stardock have been and we rarely take any action but this is crossing the line. You also know how responsive we've been to problems brought up by the community (we are heading into our 4th post-release update!!! and we've been doing regular updates based on community feedback for over a year now!!!). When we say they will be addressed they will be addressed.

Any further posts here not on topic or what we consider trolling will be deleted so PM me (from Ironclad) or Yarlen (from Stardock) if anyone wants to discuss this further.

Thanks for all the replies guys, I'll definitely look into Sins a lot more.