Cap:Frigate ratio; Why build small ships at all?

from Sins Forums

I realize this may sound stupid, and I realize perfectly well that you technically get more firepower per resource spent by using smaller ships, but I still don't get why you'd want to use them. Whenever I make a mixed fleet of just one cap and a variety of smaller ships, I find that the smaller ships get destroyed and I have to constantly spend resources to rebuild them. Obviously I am paying closer attention to my caps, so it is much easier to pull them out without taking any loss, and they regenerate for free.

This naturally leads me to start making more capitol ships and fewer frigates, and before I know it I am attacking with multiple capitol ships, and no frigates at all! Again, since it's much easier to retreat a cap than a small ship (who can keep track of so many?) by fighting this way many battles end with no real losses on my side at all. It just seems so much more reasonable to end a skirmish with all my cap ships at half health, and the enemy fleet with a bunch of ships destroyed.

Add to that the obvious facts that capitol ships get stronger and stronger over time, and that they have great abilities, and it seems tempting to start each game off by scuttling my frigate factory. Am I the only one to have thought this?

More importantly, what is the proper ratio of caps to frigates I should work towards?

strategy
7,057 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Fight with your fleet visible in the empire tree, then you can easily see what's being attacked and pull out anything that's close to death. Those ships contribute a lot more DPS than it sometimes feels like, so you should definately build them.

As far as ratio, that's a debatable question I'll leave to experts. I generally just try to keep my cap ship and fleet supply levels around the same point, build what caps I can and then fill out the rest of the points with frigs and cruisers. It's by no means the only strategy though.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
here's a trick for you..
highlight all your cap ships, set them to be a tight formation fleet, and that they all jump at the same time, and hit control 1
Select all your frigates, etc, set them to be another tight formation fleet, but don't warry about them all jumping at the same time, and hit control 2

hit 1, then right click where you want to attack, wait for the audible message saying that the caps are jumping, or watch till they start, then hit 2 and right click the destination or one of the cap ships to follow them in.. that way the cap ships appear first, and get targeted more, and the frigates etc, come in behind, and get to operate with a little more leeway..
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Cap ships are great, but I really don't build more than 4, even in large games. They're great for early game battles, but late game fleets get so large their huge early game advantage almost gets negated.

This is a beginner's guide to win.

1)Play TEC.
2)Build eco.
3)???
4)Profit.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Another reason to build a mix: capital ship construction bays are very expensive and frigate constructors are not. You can easily and relatively cheaply reinforce your front lines by having local frigate bays churn out cannon fodder.

-- Retro
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I have been trying to build a game where the caps have huge stats and the frigs/cruisers are normal in the hopes that the AI would see them as being better and build way more caps (i also increased the cap ship crew available per level by lots and gave all the caps huge hitpoints and damage, reduced cap ship supply costs to 30, increased frig/cruiser supply costs by 10 - 15) = no joy.

Unfortunately, the more you seem to push the ai towards all caps, the more it tends to build nothing. I wish we could alter the ai's choice in frigs to cap ratio either by some variable or stats adjustment but it doesn't seem to work. atleast what i have tried aint working.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
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Though fewer ships are easier to "Micro", it is certainly the case that more frigates is SIGNIFICANTLY better than more capitol ships. Not only are cap ships MUCH less efficient damage wise, but they also require additional fleet research and take up a ton of ship slots.

No. Having a bunch of cap ships is not the way to go. I have a killer record online and only ever get the starting cap. Although, playing against the computer you can get just about anything and still win.

Regarding cap ships again, it is worth it to have more than one once the game has progressed far enough, at least in part for the micro management reasons the poster listed... ie: you can "retreat" with large ships more easily; however, even cap ships have a tendancy late game to die before they can retreat.. 40 lrms take a cap ship out in seconds.

If you want to take advantage of having your opponents waist fire on units that are going to "retreat", then micro your ships so that the ones your opponent is attacking CHARGE through their lines, forcing them all to turn. Then once your ships have "broken through", send them all to jump to a neiboring system and jump back again if they are still being fired upon. This should allow the rest of your fleet to take out the OP's ships while they shoot down the couple of yours trying to escape.

In any event, if you get mass cap ships you'll lose against players who get frigates in just about every situation, to be blunt. Don't shoot the messenger.

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Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Cap ships are great, but I really don't build more than 4, even in large games. They're great for early game battles, but late game fleets get so large their huge early game advantage almost gets negated.This is a beginner's guide to win.1)Play TEC.2)Build eco.3)???4)Profit.
End of quote


Oh another note: This is note the begginers guide to win.

In reality it's more like.

1) Play Tec
2) Mass LRM frigates
3) ???
4) Win
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Whenever I make a mixed fleet of just one cap and a variety of smaller ships, I find that the smaller ships get destroyed and I have to constantly spend resources to rebuild them.
End of quote


One word: Attrition.

Absorbing firepower is important in any battle.. you need bullet magnets to hold the enemy's attention long enough for them to be worn down. For this you need a constant supply of fresh grunts. Keep churning out the cheap combat units so you maintain the attritive effect and help limit the focus of firepower on your more important ships.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
ok one thing I love seeing is people targeting my caps becuase if you get the 2 donuvs and 2 kols your pretty good. you basically have a circle of shoot me so I can regen my shield!

PS. my frigates and cruisers do most of the work and killing the cap is just there to look pretty and soak up the attention. the Caps are such attention whores
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
OK, I noticed that my caps get massacred by LRMs when they have more than about 10. Lesson learned. I still say they're more fun.